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Originally posted by mto I wouldn't have made the PvD statement.

Wait, so that little 'dig' was for my benefit was it? You obviously don't know me very well.

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Originally posted by mto Pretentiousness? Not at all. I dig the album and that's why I felt it was important to talk about it. Mikey, there's nothing "leet" about this thread at all. If you didn't come off like a jerk-off in your initial post, I wouldn't have made the PvD statement. Everyone deserves to listen to whatever they like. My initial post wasn't a pompous post either, I simply believe BT is just above all the people I mentioned when it comes to production.

Honestly, you sound like a jerkoff in your initial post. Wasn't really a cool way of going about this at all.

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Originally posted by Zild I know a lot of musicians who are technically amazing, but they have no feeling. And I know people who aren't very technical, but they can make you feel their music.

It's like the difference between a Joe Satriani solo and a Neil Young solo.

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Originally posted by SMC Is that a bad thing? Good music is meant to be listened to.

Not a bad thing at all, but many people don't like to pay too much attention. Some would rather get a momentary high from just listening to a record one time than sit there, digest it over a few listens, and then fully appreciate it. See what I mean? Oh, and you're a Crimson fan... so to you and I this makes sense. Lol.

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Originally posted by DOOMBOT Honestly, you sound like a jerkoff in your initial post. Wasn't really a cool way of going about this at all.

I'm a persuasive writer who commands respect! haha. I'm BSing, but are we all 14 year old females here and we get so emotional if someone gets in our faces?

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Originally posted by Sykonee It's like the difference between a Joe Satriani solo and a Neil Young solo.

Couldn't agree more. Technical prowess pales in the face of raw emotion everytime.

And this thread is uber pompous.

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Originally posted by mto Not a bad thing at all, but many people don't like to pay too much attention. Some would rather get a momentary high from just listening to a record one time than sit there, digest it over a few listens, and then fully appreciate it. See what I mean? Oh, and you're a Crimson fan... so to you and I this makes sense. Lol.

I feel you 100%. And yes i'm a big Crimson fan.

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Originally posted by mto I'm a persuasive writer who commands respect! haha. I'm BSing, but are we all 14 year old females here and we get so emotional if someone gets in our faces?

No, but it's pretty funny to see you call out Mike on being a specific way when you did the same thing.

BT is really not my cup of tea. Most of his stuff is way too boring and doesnt have an 'international' feel to it. IMO the only good track on TBU is The AntiKythera Mechanism which is pretty sick I will admit.

BT is a legend nowdays

You telling us that we need to listen to musicians outside of the EDM world to fully 'appreciate' BT's This Binary Universe is absurd.

This whole high & mighty pompous bullshit you're talking about right now is only strengthening Ishkur's previous point on BT.

I don't listen to any of those previous artists you've mentioned, but I can still understand or 'feel' the music on TBU just fine.

Do I need to take a musical theory class to be able to understand works of Beethoven, Mozart or any other classical musician? No.

Don't get me wrong. I love TBU. It's a great album. I don't believe for a second though that you need previous musical influences to be able to fully appreciate or understand this album.

Get off your high horse and just appreciate the music for what it is.

I think there can be layers of understanding to appreciate music. Do you need a music theory class to understand (strong emphasis on that term, which is not the same as enjoying) classical music, or music? Yeah I would say it is likely.

It's definitely not as extreme as in some other fields because I believe music is probably one of the arts which is the most detached from those sorts of obligation... and I strongly believe that yeah, music should be enjoyable at the most "primitive" level (which is probably where 95% of the listeners, including me, will be for all of their lives).

Saying that this album could only be enjoyed through a thorough knowledge of all the influences of the artist means he has failed in probably the most important part of its job.

If that is really the case and it only caters to a closed elite of pros and experts, he has definitely not chosen the best path for that (ie it's a bit contradictory of releasing an album in massive numbers backed by marketing and such.)

My excuses for the verbal diarrhea.

Lol, c'mon guys this is getting so absurd. Do you mean to tell me that EDM novice who is a Scooter fan can sit down and listen to TBU, or any other album on that level, and say they fully enjoyed it or that they fully understand it? If you believe so, then you're lying to yourself. Years ago I was that Scooter fan who thought that Depeche Mode were awful. One needs to mature as a listener in order to appreciate more complex music. I never spoke about understanding musical theory, so don't put shit in my mouth. Also, do you think a reader who constantly reads poems by Dr. Seuss is gonna appreciate and understand T.S. Eliot if they never mature and actually go through a growing process of understanding ones outside influences? Blah. You're blaming me for being elitist, something that I didn't intend to be with this post, but you're the ones who are actually being elite by not calling the things for what they are.

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Originally posted by mto Lol, c'mon guys this is getting so absurd. Do you mean to tell me that EDM novice who is a Scooter fan can sit down and listen to TBU, or any other album on that level, and say they fully enjoyed it or that they fully understand it? If you believe so, then you're lying to yourself. Years ago I was that Scooter fan who thought that Depeche Mode were awful. One needs to mature as a listener in order to appreciate more complex music. I never spoke about understanding musical theory, so don't put shit in my mouth. Also, do you think a reader who constantly reads poems by Dr. Seuss is gonna appreciate and understand T.S. Eliot if they never mature and actually go through a growing process of understanding ones outside influences? Blah. You're blaming me for being elitist, something that I didn't intend to be with this post, but you're the ones who are actually being elite by not calling the things for what they are.

Just because someone is listening to a (lower?) quality of music at any given time does not mean that they are incapable of understanding or accepting a better form of music at the same time.

Sometimes music is just catchy even though it's not complex or overly creative. Some people just have a general openess to new things. I don't believe you HAVE to mature to be able to appreciate any given piece of music.

Maturity alone won't do it. You have to come back to the initial drive of why someone decided to cross that proverbial bridge in the first place.

It wasn't my intent to put words in your mouth. As that wasn't what I was trying to do at all. Just giving an analogy of how you came off with saying we needed to be inspired by artists outside the EDM world to fully appreciate this particular piece of work (if that's not what you were trying to say then it atleast came off that way, hence the confusion).

I think this is a different statement than the one you made formerly, where you said that if you only listened to EDM you couldn't fully "enjoy" the album.

I don't why knowing influences are so important?
A work of art should stand by itself in the end: Guy Ritchie has a ton of influences, and underline them twice everytime, but the guy couldn't shoot a decent movie for jack.

So yeah, I agree: spotting the influences, knowing them, will probably be a very satisfying intellectual perspective but is not necessary: if the music cannot make any impact whatsoever on the most non-intellectual plane, there's a problem. Unless you are some sort of conceptual artist mixing in a unhealthy abandoned warehouse, completely detached from the idea of bringing a wide audience to your work, I guess...

EDIT: cmay119 probably worded it better.

EDIT2: So, what did exactly BT try to do with that album? (Just wondering)

To me TBU is what I would personally call cinematic music. I know this might be weird to say, but the videos and the animations that it came with made this album a much bigger experience, at least to me. I'm a sucker for art and animation, and when its accompanied by a beautiful soundtrack that has a unique approach, it just means that much more. If you watch the videos they tell a very cool story, but while those videos are a good visual aid, without the music they wouldn't make any sense. The music drives everything as BT tells this story. I interpret it as a story of creation, in a more mechanical sense. It all started from nothing but lead to this array of things that are all interconnected. This, of course, is not some brand new story that will thrill you forever, but the sheer production and the sound of the music, on both technical and emotional level, to me is unforgettable. I just haven't been impressed by an electronic album like this in a long time. Especially since this album mixes influences from other avenues that are equally dear to me.

You do not need to have taken music courses to know how to appreciate TBU or classical, you just need a natural "musical intelligence". Not saying musical intelligent people are smarter though.

You're being intensely irritating because you're creating a deliberate "us and them" divide between people who enjoyed TBU and people who enjoy "regular club music" or whatever you call it, and you're giving all the praise to people who liked TBU. It seems you can't talk about the album without being subtly derogatory to people who didn't enjoy it.

And it's a bit rich to compare BT to TS Elliot.

I like TBU but to be honest I was expecting more. I just didn't think there was much synergy between the tracks and the album as a whole. I definitely did not think it "told a story" very well or even "took me on a journey." If it didn't come with an awesome 5.1 DVD it would have been forgettable for me.

Imo TBU was way too complicated. The only track I liked was Good Morning Kaia just because it has a very nice piano in it. Well I guess it just didn't grow on me.

Telefon Tel Aviv were writing stuff that put TBU to shame when they were still freshman in college.

Bt = Over rated because of his "credentials" not talent. TBU is boring, plain and simple. It 'insists' on itself and sucked because too much hype and failed delivery. But like I said before 'The AntiKythera Mechanism' is a sick choon, I only wish the rest of the album sounded like it...that would of made TBU as good as alot of people say it is.

Lol @ some of you musicianists, as if it's all a science...

Why can't you just listen to something and enjoy it, why get all technical about shit that really doesn't matter jeez.

Yeah some people look far too hard into dance music. It's made for dancing not chin stroking. Comparing something like TBU to epic trance is ridiculous, they serve different purposes.

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Originally posted by CrazedOut Lol @ some of you musicianists, as if it's all a science... Why can't you just listen to something and enjoy it, why get all technical about shit that really doesn't matter jeez.

Not science. Art.

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