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quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Incorrect, they believe he was a prophet, one of the highest prophets; however, they are quite clear in their belief that he was human, not devine, not the son of god, not the or even a mesiah, just a prophet. In the interest of percision, when refering to Jesus from the muslim perspective we should be using the present tense rather then past ("jesus is a prophet") since they believe he is still alive.

Apparently Mr. Hazard you can't read. I don't see how I'm incorrect in my summary that:

A. Muslims believe Jesus was born due to virginal conception by decree of God.

and

B. Jesus was capable of performing miracles (also by decree of God).

Never did I state that they believe he was a son of god. Furthermore, one of his titles in Islam is "The Mesiah" though not in the same standards as in Christianity.

I have no idea where you're getting your info from...

edit: the confusion might've been that you thought i was describing Jesus in Roman Catholic terms, when in fact my description was relative to the purported religion.

Oh, I see, now you hate muslims


The shame Dennis, when will you learn

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Incorrect, they believe he was a prophet, one of the highest prophets; however, they are quite clear in their belief that he was human, not devine, not the son of god, not the or even a mesiah, just a prophet. In the interest of percision, when refering to Jesus from the muslim perspective we should be using the present tense rather then past ("jesus is a prophet") since they believe he is still alive.

im willing to bet the #1 reason jesus isn't considered the son of god by jews is due to the jewish influence in his untimely demise. much less a theological question as a political one

quote:

Originally posted by denys envy Apparently Mr. Hazard you can't read.

mr hazard is probably more capable of just about anything than you (including the buttsechs) so i'd watch out before you get stomped into the ground by his massive theological todger.

jews may be religious, but they're smarter than that...

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN mr hazard is probably more capable of just about anything than you (including the buttsechs) so i'd watch out before you get stomped into the ground by his massive theological todger.

What amuses me is that Mr Hazard is clearly a learned person; displaying high qualities of critical and rational thinking, yet he still believes in god .

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM What amuses me is that Mr Hazard is clearly a learned person; displaying high qualities of critical and rational thinking, yet he still believes in god .

As do thousands of people with exceptionally high IQs

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Skez As do thousands of people with exceptionally high IQs

most of the members of mensa are atheists or so ive been told.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN most of the members of mensa are atheists or so ive been told.

Oh yeah, but can any of them command a legion or secret knights like the Pope, I didn't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Skez Oh yeah, but can any of them command a legion or secret knights like the Pope, I didn't think so.

lols. perhaps not.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN most of the members of mensa are atheists or so ive been told.

...and about 20% of Nobel laureates are Jews...

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie ...and about 20% of Nobel laureates are Jews...

that's just holocaust guilt.

Jesus is in heaven right now..

HES COMING DOWN LATER AND GONNA KILL THE CRAZY CYCLOPS MONSTER WHEN DOOMSDAY COMES AND THEN HE WILL DIE CAUSE GOD SAYS THAT EVERY HUMAN MUST DIE!!!!


Thats what muslims believe. Really.

So, who here believes in G-d?

quote:

Originally posted by Elec So, who here believes in G-d?

me! absolutely 100%.

quote:

Originally posted by Elec So, who here believes in G-d?

Lets make a poll thread for COR to see how many do and dont.....BTW I do......

Question for the Mods?

Making a poll thread in the COR,is it like restricted or what?

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM What amuses me is that Mr Hazard is clearly a learned person; displaying high qualities of critical and rational thinking, yet he still believes in god .

It shouldn't amuse you. I actually was agnostic for much of my life. My interest in various faiths and philosophies started as a quest for better understanding of other people, then turned into a ten year quest for truth, and finally resulted in me choosing my faith, not because I'm ignorant (as many athiests will assume of all persons of faith) but because I'm learned. In case you're wondering, I've not yet found truth (in fact I doubt there is any truth that can be found) but I have found peace, which is just as good IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN most of the members of mensa are atheists or so ive been told.

Athiest or agnostic? You'd figure anyone intelligent enough to be in Mensa would also be intelligent enough to understand you cannot assert something does not exist simply because you don't have physical evidence of it, thus they're more likely to take the position "I don't know" rather then "there is no god."

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Athiest or agnostic? You'd figure anyone intelligent enough to be in Mensa would also be intelligent enough to understand you cannot assert something does not exist simply because you don't have physical evidence of it.

Is this not where the Celestial Teapot, the Flying spaghetti monster and the pack of butt fucking monkeys in the core of Neptune come in to play?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im willing to bet the #1 reason jesus isn't considered the son of god by jews is due to the jewish influence in his untimely demise. much less a theological question as a political one

Hmm, I'm reluctant to believe that politics plays much of a roll in the Jewish position regarding Jesus' divinity (or lack there of depending on one's believe). Certainly, the early Christian community put the blame on Rome rather then the Jews for the execution of Jesus. The idea of the Jews being to blame (if one can be blamed at all... for any Christian that really understands their faith the crucifixion is a necessary part of Jesus' mission on earth therefore it is not something for which any person should be blamed) didn't really come around until the counsel of Nicea. The effort to shif focus away from the Romans to the Jews as the guilty party was definately political as it's hard to accept a religion as the official religion of the state when that religion also paints you as the #1 bad guy.

As far as the Jewish views on the Mesiah go... I think it's really a matter of interpretation of prophesy that leaves them still looking for their mesiah. As the initial post points out, there are a lot of mesiahnic prophesies that don't exactly match up with the life and ministry of Jesus (if interpreted litterally) and there are even more that do (assuming one can consider the gospels to be accurate and not revisionist to make Jesus appear as the mesiah). Jesus, did not bring peace to Isreal, nor did he rebuild the temple... if taken litterally then Jesus cannot be the Mesiah. The split between the jews and christians really centered arround how to interpret those prophesies... some felt Jesus didn't fit the bill so they continued with their traditions, others thought Jesus did satisfy the prophesies and so they followed his teachings.

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM Is this not where the Celestial Teapot, the Flying spaghetti monster and the pack of butt fucking monkeys in the core of Neptune come in to play?

Can you state with absolute certainty that there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster?

My point is that the best conclusion we can ever really come to is that we don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Can you state with absolute certainty that there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I don't see how being unable to prove something exists is a valid argument for believing it does...that's what I believe the spaghetti monster and the celestial teapot were designed to show.

And you use logic and reason to conclude that it is extremely unlikely that the spaghetti monster exists, due to lack of evidence.
I apply the same logic to the idea of a god existing.

So Jews don't believe Jesus was the Mesiah because they got royaly fucked a few times by the rest of the world?

That reminds me of the Family Guy bit about the Pyramids and two Jews are hauling rocks on their backs, one of them says to the other "Every race has to go through hardships at some time in their existance. From here on out its smooth sailing for us Jews." (or something along those lines).

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN mr hazard is probably more capable of just about anything than you (including the buttsechs).

- highly doubt that. though i'll admit he's got me covered by miles on theology.

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM I don't see how being unable to prove something exists is a valid argument for believing it does...that's what I believe the spaghetti monster and the celestial teapot were designed to show. And you use logic and reason to conclude that it is extremely unlikely that the spaghetti monster exists, due to lack of evidence. I apply the same logic to the idea of a god existing.

I don't see how being unable to produce physical evidence of the existance of a thing is reason to believe it exists either, my faith is a result of reason. I don't have faith because the existance of God hasn't been disproven, rather, I have faith because I have deductively reasoned that God (in some fashion I cannot fully appreciate) exists. The key here is that I believe, I do not profess to know.

This is where I take issue with athiesm... athiests state there is no god... they state this as fact, not belief. I can accept someone stating they do not believe there is anything that we would understand as a god, I can even appreciate there are sound reasons for that belief; however, belief is not knowledge nor is it fact. To state with absolute certainty that something does not exist is simply folly. This is why I state that any intelligent person who does not have faith is more probably to deem themself an agnostic and admit that they don't know one way or another.

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