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Do the right thing and return it all...

Karma is a bitch. It will come back on you X 10 one day if you don't.

Re: Re: Moral Dillemma..

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN a fool and his money are soon parted.

Are human actions not bound by a cause and effect relation ?

Re: Moral Dillemma..

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Originally posted by trewqy I'm not superstitious..but as i grow older..I realised this karma thing might have some sense after all.

karma? what karma?

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UXBRIDGE, Mass. -- A convicted Level 3 sex offender has won $10 million in the Massachusetts State Lottery. The Worcester Gazette & Telegram reports 56-year-old Daniel Snay, of Uxbridge, could now face charges because he failed to notify authorities that he had moved, according to Connecticut State Police. �I�m flabbergasted,� Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance told the Telegram. �His whereabouts, until you told me about this, have been unknown to us. But I guess you could say he�s very fortunate.� sponsor Snay works driving trucks for a yacht dealership in Mendon. He won the $10 million from a $20 scratch ticket purchased at Cumberland Farms in Hopedale. But the lottery winnings also come with unwanted publicity. �He was concerned, but there�s not much you can do about it,� said Snay�s lawyer Joseph M. Fabricotti. �We talked about it and he understood this was one of the repercussions that could happen.� Snay�s record of sexual assaults dates back to 1974. He has been convicted six times of indecent assault and battery in Massachusetts. Level 3 offenders are considered the most dangerous and the most likely to commit another crime.

Re: Re: Re: Moral Dillemma..

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Originally posted by Omega_M Are human actions not bound by a cause and effect relation ?

but they do not behave in the same fashion; there isn't necessarily an "equal and opposite" reaction the same way there is in the physics sense.

i could sneak next door right now and throw a brick through their window, and as long as i don't get caught doing so, there wont be any effect passed onto me.

of course i believe in "social karma" - the way in which you behave and treat people will of course have a relationship to how you are treated in return, but only if people have absolute knowledge of good/bad things you've done.

IF nobody notices the missing money, and IF nobody ever mentions it to anyone else, then there surely will never be resulting "bad karma" from taking the money. and if so, how?

the concept of real, spiritual karma is absolute nonsense, sitting right next to astrology on pkc's respect ladder.

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Originally posted by Vivid Boy invest it into blow. sell the blow, make a thou, give back a thou do it again. start ur drug ring

I like this idea. Or buy some drugs, consume them, and become extremely paranoid about it for fun.

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Originally posted by Vivid Boy invest it into blow. sell the blow, make a thou, give back a thou do it again. start ur drug ring

clearly he already has:

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Originally posted by trewqy .....So we decided to ask for donations from the people upstairs to provide us with some more dope.......

Return.

you will get fucked if you dont return it. Someone is keeping track of the books. If the numbers dont add up with debits and credits.. your busted.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN but they do not behave in the same fashion; there isn't necessarily an "equal and opposite" reaction the same way there is in the physics sense.

No there isn't. But lack of quantitative evidence does not necessarily mean that the mechanism does not exist. Karma (spiritual or whatever) is simply a cause-effect relation. Cause-Effect is the most fundamental relation which governs the dynamics of the physical universe. I don't see how human actions at all levels are not in any way bound by this relation.

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i could sneak next door right now and throw a brick through their window, and as long as i don't get caught doing so, there wont be any effect passed onto me.

How will you prove or disprove this ? Life spans over several decades and given the fact that the reaction may not be equal, opposite or instantaneous, you cannot say that this action will not result in an unpleasant effect at a later stage of your life. I admit it's equally impossible to prove that a future effect is tied up to this cause.

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of course i believe in "social karma" - the way in which you behave and treat people will of course have a relationship to how you are treated in return, but only if people have absolute knowledge of good/bad things you've done.

Human actions originate first in the mind and are then completed through the physical body. If the physical actions qualify as "bad" then I would also qualify the thoughts behind these actions as "bad". Killing someone and wishing someone death are both "bad" in my books. Social karma would simply be a subset of a more generalized version of karma.

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IF nobody notices the missing money, and IF nobody ever mentions it to anyone else, then there surely will never be resulting "bad karma" from taking the money. and if so, how?

Yeah but how would the person who stole the money know that ? There is no way for him to know this for a fact. I would go on and say that this may never be 100% true given the fact that stealing money is bad and hence adds up to bad karma and hence is bound to create an unpleasant reaction of some sort.

im too tired to get right into this right now, i just wanted to swing by to tell you i think youre talking nonsense

It is incredible that you don't wish to extend the simple cause-effect relation to anything other than gross material aspects of the universe. In time, science will be able to quantify and understand the laws that govern such aspects as mind, emotions, human actions etc and may discover that the same fundamental relation also governs the dynamics of these things.

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Originally posted by Omega_M It is incredible that you don't wish to extend the simple cause-effect relation to anything other than gross material aspects of the universe. In time, science will be able to quantify and understand the laws that govern such aspects as mind, emotions, human actions etc and may discover that the same fundamental relation also governs the dynamics of these things.

I highly doubt that we will ever be that advanced or that we are even capable of such knowledge. Your thoughts are good but far too optimistic.

Who do you work for?

Return it. All of it, and soon.

You may not care about this job, but what kind of reference will you get if they even suspect something's amiss.

If you NEED the $1000, there are better ways to get it. Besides, if this is a moral dilemma for you, then you already know what you have to do, don't you? What would Mom say?

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Originally posted by Omega_M No there isn't. But lack of quantitative evidence does not necessarily mean that the mechanism does not exist. Karma (spiritual or whatever) is simply a cause-effect relation. Cause-Effect is the most fundamental relation which governs the dynamics of the physical universe. I don't see how human actions at all levels are not in any way bound by this relation.

because its ridiculous to contend that there is an inherent "right" or "wrong" in most behaviour, and that in the future that this comes back to you. what about all the "grey" behaviours - is there "grey" karma on the horizon for those straddling the middle?

let's say i steal your girlfriend. this obviously hurts you a great deal. but perhaps she is much happier and more sexually satisfied with me. she and i are now much happier than either of us were when you two were together. where is the wrong or right in this situation?

lack of evidence might not mean the mechanism doesn't exist, but it certainly isn't reason enough to believe that it does. people believe it because you can't prove otherwise, and you can't prove otherwise because its all bullshit.

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Originally posted by Omega_M How will you prove or disprove this ?

the fact that as a naughty boy growing up i engaged in all kinds of illegal and unacceptable behaviour, and because im much smarter than the average bear, i saw no negative repercussions. at all. ever.

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Originally posted by Omega_M Life spans over several decades and given the fact that the reaction may not be equal, opposite or instantaneous, you cannot say that this action will not result in an unpleasant effect at a later stage of your life.

true, but you would have to postulate a method of karmic equilibrium; ie you must have some kind of all-knowing "system" that measures ones activities and meters out just desserts at some stage in the future. im sorry but i find that possibility to be ludicrous, and lacking ANY evidence whatsoever.

there are far too many examples of good people being punished and bad people getting away scott-free for me to believe in karma. the instances of child starvation or cancer speaks volumes (to me) about the universe and her tendency to meet out fair and just outcomes for those that are without "sin".

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Originally posted by Omega_M Human actions originate first in the mind and are then completed through the physical body. If the physical actions qualify as "bad" then I would also qualify the thoughts behind these actions as "bad". Killing someone and wishing someone death are both "bad" in my books. Social karma would simply be a subset of a more generalized version of karma.

the whole fact youre using " " around bad just shows the inherent problem. who is the central "CPU" that is determining what is good and bad, and how good or bad it is? this implies a karmic sentience - another concept i find ridiculous.

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Originally posted by Omega_M Yeah but how would the person who stole the money know that ? There is no way for him to know this for a fact.

irrelevant. we're not talking about knowledge, we're talking about possibilities.

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Originally posted by Omega_M I would go on and say that this may never be 100% true given the fact that stealing money is bad and hence adds up to bad karma and hence is bound to create an unpleasant reaction of some sort.

ive stolen plenty of shit in my life and gotten away with it each and every time. are you contending that everyone in the world that is downloading illegal mp3s is due for some bad karma? or do YOU not view downloading songs as "bad"? what does the sentient karmic being think about mp3s? see, such concerns are blatantly idiotic without SOME plausible explanation for how the mechanisms of karma work.

you can postulate anything and i can't disprove it, but ive never found that as a particularly compelling position to take. i can't prove there arent pink fairies on the dark side of the moon either

I'm currently stationed in singapore working for pfizer.

Anyways an update,

I've spoken with the top management and they totally didnt know that the money hasnt been used...(yes fuck). They said to just spend the money among the committee for dinner or something and thats it really. That means each one of us (theres 8 of us who were involved) would get about $100+ each.

Oh well..

1. Everybody should be able to divide 1000 by 8 without a calculator. It's 125 $ each.
2. You should have stolen it!!!

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Originally posted by Meat187 1. Everybody should be able to divide 1000 by 8 without a calculator. It's 125 $ each. 2. You should have stolen it!!!

FUCK I'M REALLY REGRETTING THIS!

FUCK MY MORAL VALUES!!

Run! Fast before you get failboated!

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Originally posted by Ghost Raver Run! Fast before you get failboated!

What kind of a job do you have if $1000 is worth stealing, that's my question. That's chump change if you ask me and not worth even the remote possibility of losing your career.

pkcRaistlin has postulated a fair argument, but I'm still a believer in karma, and that what goes around comes around full circle. I find I get exactly out of my life what I put into it. Sometimes I get ripped off yes, but for the most part it has been entirely worthwhile.

You can't really shake and bake morality and ethics into what is objectively right and wrong. When push comes to shove, even the most self-sacrificing actions can be viewed as a selfish act. It's about what makes your life comfortable and worth living.

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Originally posted by Dr. DAS

hahahaha thats awsome!!

"pkcRAISTLIN"

Very worthy arguement .

As for Karma , I try and live my life using it as a platform .However , a notorious Glasgow thug springs to mind ,Jimmy Boyle ..he was an enforcer, drug baron who killed, maimed, tortured .In essence a truly evil bastard .He was eventually sentenced and has done his time .He became a model prisoner ( after having previously attacked multiple warders ). He is now an acclaimed author and sculptor- a darling of society , with a big fat bank account .There are hundreds of examples of these evil sons-of -bitches who make a fortune out of misery,and still sleep soundly in their beds.
Where's the Karma / justice, in that ?!

Interesting arguments.

The truth that I live by is simple, I can't win when somebody else loses. I gain more when I seek a win-win situation instead of a win-lose or lose-win.

Have a read of Steven Covey sometime.

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