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Well, they always identified them selves as albanians and never "kosovans" as you call them. If they already have Albania then why should they have the right to claim Kosovo as theirs when it never was?

My point regarding lationos was; what if they decided that they didn't want to be a part of The United States but felt that because they where a majority in california the should have it as their own?

Had Kosovo ramained a part of Serbia, as the UN up until now stated that it was, there wouldn't have to be need for reconciliation.

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Originally posted by SkooB_E Well, they always identified them selves as albanians and never "kosovans" as you call them. If they already have Albania then why should they have the right to claim Kosovo as theirs when it never was? My point regarding lationos was; what if they decided that they didn't want to be a part of The United States but felt that because they where a majority in california the should have it as their own? Had Kosovo ramained a part of Serbia, as the UN up until now stated that it was, there wouldn't have to be need for reconciliation.

They identify themselves as ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo. Why are you so keen on argueing over technicalities which really don't matter?

Here is the difference between Kosovans and Latinos. The Albanians have been living in Kosovo for centuries. The Latinos in America are for the most part, immigrants from the south who only started coming to the country in large numbers in the mid-20th century. They have no separatist national identity. The Kosovo Albanians do have a separatist national identity. The two situations are completely different, so the comparisn between Kosovo Albanians and Latinos isn't valid.

It is obvious that the Kosovo authorities with the blessing of the people will declare independence, whether accepted or not by the Serbs and Russians. Nothing will stop it. What action do you believe will change the Kosovans desire for national independence? It doesn't really matter what you, or the Serbs, or Russia think. The Kosovans will declare independence regardless!

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Originally posted by SkooB_E That doesn't piss me off the slightest. You where the one bringing this shit up over and over again, you're only underlining how ignorant you realy are.

OR how ignorant you think I am. I could care less...

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The 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence is an act of the Provisional Institutions of Self-Government Assembly of Kosovo, adopted on 17 February 2008, which declared Kosovo to be independent from Serbia The declaration of independence was made by members of the Kosovo Assembly meeting in Pristina, the capital of Kosovo, on 17 February 2008. It was approved by a show of hands, with no votes of opposition from the 109 members present. Ten Assembly members, including all the Kosovo Serbs, were absent. The terms of the declaration state that Kosovo's independence is limited to the principles outlined by the Ahtisaari plan. It prohibits Kosovo from joining any other country, provides for only a limited military capability, states that Kosovo will be under international supervision and provides for the protection of minority ethnic communities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_K...of_independence

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It's a done deal...

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Originally posted by Krypton They identify themselves as ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo. Why are you so keen on argueing over technicalities which really don't matter?

How this not relevant? Declaring yourself as Albanian you are identifying youself by nationality. This states that they cannot claim independence based on nationality. And you youself stated that you base your opinion on national identity. Now you say that this is a technicality?

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Originally posted by Krypton Here is the difference between Kosovans and Latinos. The Albanians have been living in Kosovo for centuries. The Latinos in America are for the most part, immigrants from the south who only started coming to the country in large numbers in the mid-20th century. They have no separatist national identity. The Kosovo Albanians do have a separatist national identity. The two situations are completely different, so the comparisn between Kosovo Albanians and Latinos isn't valid.

Of course albanians have existed in Serbia for long, just like the latinos in The States, that's the way it has always been with two nations bordering eachother. However they where never a majority in Kosovo until the late sixties, early seventies, when they started immigrating into Serbia. Witch does make the comparison very much valid.

The only reason the albanians in Kosovo have a separatist national identity is because they choose to call themselves. Just as you have people calling themselves hispanic-american and african-american.

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Originally posted by Krypton It is obvious that the Kosovo authorities with the blessing of the people will declare independence, whether accepted or not by the Serbs and Russians. Nothing will stop it. What action do you believe will change the Kosovans desire for national independence? It doesn't really matter what you, or the Serbs, or Russia think. The Kosovans will declare independence regardless!

Obviously, this cannot be stoped now.
But fact still is that the so called atority in an this claim as inependent is illegal acording to U.N and their resolution 1244 about sovereign countries and their boundaries. They only reason most of the countries have to go along with this is that they helped the albanian get this far and backing down now would be admitting they failed. And after all that's happened there that's not an option for them. The only thing they can do about it is sit back and watch things unfold and hope for the best.

Regardning the Ruissians, they are most about talking but until they are under a direct threat they won't do shit.

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Originally posted by Krypton OR how ignorant you think I am. I could care less...

Yet you keep bringing this up.

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Originally posted by SkooB_E How this not relevant? Declaring yourself as Albanian you are identifying youself by nationality. This states that they cannot claim independence based on nationality. And you youself stated that you base your opinion on national identity. Now you say that this is a technicality?

You were just having a fit about me calling them Kosovans instead of Albanians. That is a technicality which really doesn't matter...

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Of course albanians have existed in Serbia for long, just like the latinos in The States, that's the way it has always been with two nations bordering eachother. However they where never a majority in Kosovo until the late sixties, early seventies, when they started immigrating into Serbia. Witch does make the comparison very much valid.

It's been more than a century the Albanians have had a majority in Kosovo...

[[[An Austrian statistics published in 1899 estimated:

182,650 Albanians (47.88%)
166,700 Serbs (43.7%)
Remaining 8.42% Tsintsars, Turks, Circassians, Roma and Jews

Detailbeschreibung des Sandzaks Plevlje und des Vilajets Kosovo (Mit 8 Beilagen und 10 Taffeln), Als Manuskript gedruckt, Vien 1899, 80-81.]]]

[[[British journalist H. Brailsford estimated in 1906 that two-thirds of the population of Kosovo was Albanian and one-third Serbian. The most populous western districts of Djakovica and Pec were said to have between 20,000 and 25,000 Albanian households, as against some 5,000 Serbian ones. Map of Alfred Stead, published in 1909 , shows that similar numbers of Serbs and Albanians were living in the territory.

H. N. Brailsford, Macedonia, Its Races and Their Future, London, 1906

Servia by the Servians, Compiled and Edited by Alfred Stead, With a Map, London (William Heinemann), 1909. (Etnographical Map of Servia, Scale 1:2.750.000).]]]

[[[German scholar Gustav Weigand gave the following statistical data about the population of Kosovo, based on the pre-war situation in Kosovo in 1912:

Prishtina District: 67% Albanians, 30% Serbs
Prizreni District: 63% Albanians, 36% Serbs
Vučitrn District: 90% Albanians, 10% Serbs
Ferizaj (Uro�evac) District: 70% Albanians, 30% Serbs
Gilani (Gnjilane) District: 75% Albanians, 23% Serbs
Mitrovica District: 60% Serbs, 40% Albanians
Metohija with the town of Đakovica (Gjakova) is furthermore defined as almost exclusively Albanian by Weigand.

Gustav Weigand, Ethnographie von Makedonien, Leipzig, 1924; Густав Вайганд, Етнография на Македония (Bulgarian translation)]]]

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The only reason the albanians in Kosovo have a separatist national identity is because they choose to call themselves. Just as you have people calling themselves hispanic-american and african-american.

The national identity of Kosovo is different from that of the minorities of the USA. First of all, unlike Kosovo, latinos or blacks don't enjoy any widespread majority in any state of the union. Secondly, no minority in the USA has a national identity other than that of an American. Thirdly, the minorities of the USA, with no national identity other than being an American, are not lobbying for territorial sovereignty. This is why I say the situations are completely different and not relavent because neither is related in any way shape or form to the other situation.

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Obviously, this cannot be stoped now..

Something we agree on...

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Regardning the Ruissians, they are most about talking but until they are under a direct threat they won't do shit.

Good. It's best to let the Serbs and Kosovans sort it out. The decision to recognize the government of Kosovo is up to the international community themselves. I am of the opinion that they should be recognized. They have all the aspects I see as important to the existance of a state.

1. National identity.
2. Support of the super-majority.
3. Functioning social services and governance.

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Yet you keep bringing this up.

What, and give you last word in our flame war? Come now, I never give my detractors the victory of the last word...

How about we declare a cease fire and drop the flaming...

Well, it's getting late here so there will be alot of spelling errors and I have a feeling that I'm going to fuck up these quotation tags eventually. Anyway:

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Originally posted by Krypton You were just having a fit about me calling them Kosovans instead of Albanians. That is a technicality which really doesn't matter...

I wasn't having a "fit" about anything. It was you who stated (and do so again in your previsous post) that nationality was of importance, that was why I thought that it was more than a just technicality.

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Originally posted by Krypton Secondly, no minority in the USA has a national identity other than that of an American.

So those calling them selves hispanic-americans and african-americans don't actually exist, and are all made up?

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Originally posted by Krypton The national identity of Kosovo is different from that of the minorities of the USA. First of all, unlike Kosovo, latinos or blacks don't enjoy any widespread majority in any state of the union. Thirdly, the minorities of the USA, with no national identity other than being an American, are not lobbying for territorial sovereignty.

I'm not saing they are, I'm asking what if they did? Because that was what happend i Serbia. And hat was the reason I compared the two.

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Originally posted by Krypton Something we agree on...

I never really claimed anything else.

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Originally posted by Krypton Good. It's best to let the Serbs and Kosovans sort it out. The decision to recognize the government of Kosovo is up to the international community themselves. I am of the opinion that they should be recognized. They have all the aspects I see as important to the existance of a state. 1. National identity. 2. Support of the super-majority. 3. Functioning social services and governance.

That is my point. This was NEVER sorted out between serbs and albanians, because others countries felt the need to interfere (sp?) and the decision of Kosovos government was never made by the international community but by the albanians themselves the rest of the world just sat by and watched this happend because they couldn't stop this, and didn't want to be acused of doing the same thing they claim to have stoped the serbs from doing.

And in my opinion all your three points fail.

1. The fact is that they have an national identity as albanians, and as such already have a country of their own.

2. They don't have the support of any majority (at least not yet), and fact still remains that acording to the UN this is still illegal, which makes other countries reluctant to choose any side in this conflict. When they eventually do it will be because they have to and not because it's right.

3. Their is nothing functioning socialy in anyway, if it did there would be no need for a peacekeeping force now would it? And since I have already commented on the government earlier I won't do it a third time.

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Originally posted by Krypton What, and give you last word in our flame war? Come now, I never give my detractors the victory of the last word... How about we declare a cease fire and drop the flaming...

If you feel you have to have the last word on something like this go ahead, I don't care much for these types of flame wars as I find them quite immature.

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Originally posted by SkooB_E So those calling them selves hispanic-americans and african-americans don't actually exist, and are all made up?

They aren't national identities. They are ethnic identities.

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I'm not saing they are, I'm asking what if they did? Because that was what happend i Serbia. And hat was the reason I compared the two.

I'm saying they can't, because the situations are completely different and unrelated, thus, an invalid comparison.

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That is my point. This was NEVER sorted out between serbs and albanians, because others countries felt the need to interfere (sp?) and the decision of Kosovos government was never made by the international community but by the albanians themselves the rest of the world just sat by and watched this happend because they couldn't stop this, and didn't want to be acused of doing the same thing they claim to have stoped the serbs from doing.

Sorting it out now means the Serbs accepting Kosovan independence. I hope it's peaceful.

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And in my opinion all your three points fail. 1. The fact is that they have an national identity as albanians, and as such already have a country of their own. 2. They don't have the support of any majority (at least not yet), and fact still remains that acording to the UN this is still illegal, which makes other countries reluctant to choose any side in this conflict. When they eventually do it will be because they have to and not because it's right. 3. Their is nothing functioning socialy in anyway, if it did there would be no need for a peacekeeping force now would it? And since I have already commented on the government earlier I won't do it a third time.

1. Their national identity is as Kosovo Albanians, not of the country of Albania.

2. "The declaration of independence was made by members of the Kosovo Assembly meeting in Pristina, the capital of Kosovo, on 17 February 2008. It was approved by a show of hands, with no votes of opposition from the 109 members present."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_K...of_independence

3. The peacekeeping force was to stop the Serbian ethnic clensing of the region in the 1990's. The Kosovo government has functioning departments of education, police, health, etc. All of these are functioning social services, a characteristic of a functional state government.

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If you feel you have to have the last word on something like this go ahead, I don't care much for these type of flame wars as I find them quite immature.

You sure had no problem being immature, as did I..

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Originally posted by Krypton They aren't national identities. They are ethnic identities.

But acording to you this is just a technicality thus making it irrelevant.

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Originally posted by Krypton I'm saying they can't, because the situations are completely different and unrelated, thus, an invalid comparison.

That's still not an answer to my question. I'm not saying it will . I'm asking what if?

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Originally posted by Krypton Sorting it out now means the Serbs accepting Kosovan independence. I hope it's peaceful.

Accepting something you know is wrong is not sorting things out. It's giving in.

And since there have been a couple of explosions already it's highly unlikly that there will be anything peaceful about this.

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Originally posted by Krypton 1. Their national identity is as Kosovo Albanians, not of the country of Albania. 2. "The declaration of independence was made by members of the Kosovo Assembly meeting in Pristina, the capital of Kosovo, on 17 February 2008. It was approved by a show of hands, with no votes of opposition from the 109 members present." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_K...of_independence 3. The peacekeeping force was to stop the Serbian ethnic clensing of the region in the 1990's. The Kosovo government has functioning departments of education, police, health, etc. All of these are functioning social services, a characteristic of a functional state government.

1. Kosovo was never a country on it's own but a part of Serbia, therefore it could not be claimed as an nationality on it's own.

2. The most important thing to be remembered here is what I wrote in my previous post:

quote:

fact still remains that acording to the UN this is still illegal

And when I ment majority I meant internationally. And since the serbs never participated in the voting and never where given equal rights in the voting it can not be called democratic and should not be recognized.

3. If all the ethnicities are not able to participate in the comunity it can hardly be seen as functioning. And if the peacekeeping force was only there for this ethnic clensing they aren't supposed to be there now, because it's not happening anymore right? And yet they are.

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Originally posted by Krypton You sure had no problem being immature, as did I..

Really now? Did I post some stupid pictures and kept on bringing up stuff that was off topic? Not really.

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Originally posted by SkooB_E But acording to you this is just a technicality thus making it irrelevant.

It is irrelavent because an ethnic identity is much different from a NATIONAL identity.

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That's still not an answer to my question. I'm not saying it will . I'm asking what if?

I know your asking "what if?". I'm telling you there is no what if, because the ethnic minorities in this country do not have a national identity outside that of America. The Kosovo Albanians do.

What I think your trying to ask is this...

"What if in the USA, there was a region where a nation of people, by super-majority requested, then stated they would declare independence; should I, or the federal government accept the declaration of independence?"

First, I want to restate my opinion of the irrelavancy of the question because of the completely different circumstances. But to answer your question, it really would not be a problem. States are free to secede from the union if they choose to. Puerto Rico, a US commonwealth majority latino, has even been given the opportunity to vote on whether they want independence, statehood, or status quo. See, this is why I say your question is irrelavent, because the laws, attitudes, and simple circumstances are completely different and unrelated to the Kosovo-Serb issue, which makes them uncomparable...

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Accepting something you know is wrong is not sorting things out. It's giving in.

Ahh, Serb honor is stake? I know Serbian nationalism is strong, and they rarely take no for an answer. I really hope the instability of the 1990's does not come back to the former Yugoslavia...

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1. Kosovo was never a country on it's own but a part of Serbia, therefore it could not be claimed as an nationality on it's own. 2. When I ment majority I meant internationally. And since the serbs never participated in the voting and never where given equal rights it can not be called democratic and should not be recognized.

1. You have to ask the question of national identity. If you were to go to Pristina and ask, "What nationality are you?" I'm almost 100% certain the overwhelming majority would identify themselves as Kosovo Albanians, not Serbs. See, you would be right if Kosovans viewed themselves as Serbs. But the reality of the situation is, they do not have a national identity as Serbian.

2. Voting in what, and with what equal rights?

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And as I wrote in my previous post: 3. If all the ethnicities are not able to participate in the comunity it can hardly be seen as functioning. And if the peacekeeping force was only there for this ethnic clensing they aren't supposed to be there now, because it's not happening anymore right? And yet they are.

If I recall, the minority Serbs do have a role in the government of Kosovo, and are also protected by the law. It is they who abstained from voting for the declaration of independence.

The UN peacekeeping force is still there probably because tensions are still very high. The possibility of a resumption of hostilities is still there, especially now.

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Really now? Did I post some stupid pictures and kept on bringing up stuff that was off topic? Not really.

You sure didn't hesitate to respond now did you? I really didn't know how else to make it clear that you were making an issue out of a NON-ISSUE; hopefully the pictures helped at that. But here we are still bickering. How about we just agree to disagree about the video, ay?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Check this out. This is how Serbs and Bosnians play football against each other. They chant songs about the "enemy", obviously enemies from the wars of the 1990's. Animosity is still strong, even in football matches... [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Pffft ... I recall more bloody soccer matches in history when one between San Salvador and its neighbour turned into a brief war. That makes that Bosnia vs. Serbia one look like a joke.

This Kosovo precedent is like opening a can of worms. It will begin a series of dangerous political problems around the world, giving new hope to all separatist movements, aka more violence and more "ethic cleansing". And no, Chechnya is not going to become independent, they're fiercely pro-Russian now. Its more about the Catalonians, Basques, Abhkazians, Transdnistria, South Ossetia, Kurds, etc. etc. etc.

You see, the reason why Albanians managed to drive their percentage in Kosovo up to 90% is through pushing Serbs out. There's still Serbs who live in refugee tents, since over 250,000 Serbs were forced to flee Kosovo since NATO's alleged liberation of Kosovo in 1999. I betcha havent heard that one. Thats just one of many examples of why Western media is so biased.

Basically the countries that do think about supporting and recognizing Kosovo's independence - most of them have nothing to gain from this. This is all part of a political war to finally weaken and destroy Slavic countries, Slavic cultures. Ask yourself - what does EU have to gain from this?

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Originally posted by Krypton It is irrelavent because an ethnic identity is much different from a NATIONAL identity. I know your asking "what if?". I'm telling you there is no what if, because the ethnic minorities in this country do not have a national identity outside that of America. The Kosovo Albanians do.

And that was my point from the start, since they DO have a national identity outside of Kosovo as albanians and thus have a country of their own they should not be able to claim national identity as "kosovans" since Kosovo was not a nation in itself.

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Originally posted by Krypton States are free to secede from the union if they choose to.

ARe they now? Even if the rest of the union says no?

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Originally posted by Krypton Ahh, Serb honor is stake? I know Serbian nationalism is strong, and they rarely take no for an answer. I really hope the instability of the 1990's does not come back to the former Yugoslavia...

The main issue here has nothing to do with honor. It's all about what is right and legal and what's not, and this is wrong in and illegal in everyway.

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Originally posted by Krypton 1. You have to ask the question of national identity. If you were to go to Pristina and ask, "What nationality are you?" I'm almost 100% certain the overwhelming majority would identify themselves as Kosovo Albanians, not Serbs. See, you would be right if Kosovans viewed themselves as Serbs. But the reality of the situation is, they do not have a national identity as Serbian.

As I said earlier, that would apply if Kosovo was a country on it's own when in fact it was not. It was a part of Serbia and those albaninans living in Kosovo where a minority. So if they didn't like it in SErbia they had their own country and could have left at anytime.

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Originally posted by Krypton 2. Voting in what, and with what equal rights? If I recall, the minority Serbs do have a role in the government of Kosovo, and are also protected by the law. It is they who abstained from voting for the declaration of independence.

Th Serbs where never given equal rights by this so called government. Votes by serbs where supposed to represent the precentegae of people in Kosovo who are serbs, but where only counted as 1 vote = 1 person, which would mean that the votes by the 10 serbian representatives would only represent those 10 people and not the rest of thserbs in Kosovo. That's why the serbs never wanted to participate.

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Originally posted by Krypton The UN peacekeeping force is still there probably because tensions are still very high. The possibility of a resumption of hostilities is still there, especially now.

Which further proves my piont that it is not a functional state.

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Originally posted by Krypton You sure didn't hesitate to respond now did you? I really didn't know how else to make it clear that you were making an issue out of a NON-ISSUE; hopefully the pictures helped at that.

This is the last response from me on this issue. As I posted earlier, I posted my opinion on the video and then dropped the whole thing, yet you brought it up over and over because, as you said, you just have to have the last word. As I stated earlier, those pictures just made you look more ignorant.

Skoob, none of this matters anymore. Kosovo declared independence. So what's next?

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This is the last response from me on this issue.

No it won't...

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As I posted earlier, I posted my opinion on the video and then dropped the whole thing, yet you brought it up over and over because, as you said, you just have to have the last word. As I stated earlier, those pictures just made you look more ignorant.

Am I supposed to let you insult your way out of your non-issues? The pictures made a point. CRY ME A RIVER!! I've never seen anyone react so strongly to a simple video being posted.

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Originally posted by SkooB_E within 5 years what is now Kosovo will be known as northern Albanina

thats essentially why this is bullshit.

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Originally posted by Krypton Skoob, none of this matters anymore. Kosovo declared independence. So what's next?

I already posted on this in my very first post in this thread.

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Originally posted by RapidFire thats essentially why this is bullshit.

I'm curious to see how this will play out when albanians in Macedonia and Montenegro start talking about independence.

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Originally posted by SkooB_E I already posted on this in my very first post in this thread.

Ah yes.

What would you propose the Serbs could have done or do to reel in Kosovo?

It's very hard for a majority government to suppress a separatist minority government, especially when all the things needed for a functioning independent state are already in place, minus the withdrawal of foreign peacekeepers. Everything else is in place. What was Serbia to do???

There is nothing left to do now but to wait and see what will come of this, this is really the only option left for everyone involved.

As of what could have been done, well had there been any other government in Serbia then that of Milosevic's Serbia would never have been illegaly attacked by NATO in the first place and all attempts of independece would have been put down by the serbian government.

This was never about "protecting" albanians as it has been claimed, the only reason that happend was to get rid of Milosevic. What is happening today is just the result of that.

I have friends in Macedonia, and you guys won't believe what the ethnic Albanians are doing there right now ...

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I have friends in Macedonia, and you guys won't believe what the ethnic Albanians are doing there right now ...

Do tell do tell!!!

Albanians are trying to break apart all the countries around them. I still recall in 2001 there was a brief war in Macedonia between ethnic Albanians (who were bent on independence and splitting to Albania) and Macedonian government. Also, Greece and Montenegro have a substantial Albanian minority.

Basically here's a quote from my friend. He basically says that ethnic Albanians are celebrating in Macedonia right now, in the streets in the northwestern areas where they make up a huge portion:

"That's the irony: back in 1991 when Macedonia declared independence from Yugoslavia, the Macedo-Albanians were not on the streets of their own country to celebrate it's independence, they even boycotted the referendum. Yesterday they were celebrating the independence of a new-born foreign state (Kosovo), obviously loving it more than the state that is their motherland (Macedonia) where since ever they were in best position compared to the other Albanian regions on the Balkans (both Albania and ex-Yu).
BTW Why they celebrate Kosovo's independence waving a flag of Republic of Albania?"


There's a growing animosity between selfish and ignorant ethnic Albanians and other ethnic groups in the Balkans. Currently the situation has been resolved in the favour of Albanians, drawing bitter comments by the Serbians. Some Serb politicians have said such remarks like they will wait, grow stronger, and some day reclaim their province, the heartland of their history, with several prominent Serbian historic monuments located in Kosovo (including on their coins).

Basically what EU have done is set pace to a future conflict where ethnic Albanians will be slaughtered in a a huge war ... Kosovo is considered in Serbian history as a place of their national "awakening", if you read their history then you'll understand ... and judging by what Serbian politicians have said, Serbia will someday re-emerge through a war to reclaim its national glory. It will never forget this event. Ever. And will never accept.

So consider all these facts, and ask yourself - is this conflict, this dispute all settled and will peace finally come? Personally, I think things will now be much worse in the future. Without a doubt.

FYI ...


Some of Serbia's most important historic monuments, cherished religious shrines are located within Kosovo that were part of Serbia for CENTURIES. Here are prominent Serbian historic and religious monuments (that I can think of) dear to Serbs that are trapped within Kosovo, that have been numerously desecrated, vandalized by the ethnic Albanians:

Visoki De�ani monastery

"is a major Serb Orthodox Christian monastery in the southern Serbian province of Kosovo, 12 km south of the town of Pe�. Its cathedral is the biggest medieval church in the Balkans which contains the largest preserved monument of Byzantine fresco-painting.

The monastery was established in a chestnut grove by King Stefan De�anski in 1327. Its original founding charter is dated to 1330. The following year the king died and was buried at the monastery, which henceforth became his popular shrine. Indeed, the epithet De�anski refers to the king's foundation of the monastery. The construction was continued by his son Stefan Du�an until 1335, but the wall-painting was not completed until 1350.

The cathedral, dedicated to Christ Pantocrator and built from blocks of red-purple, light-yellow and onyx marble, was constructed by master-builders under the Franciscan monk Vitus of Kotor. It is distinguished from other contemporary Serbian churches by its imposing dimensions and obvious Romanesque features. Its celebrated frescoes comprise some 1000 portraits and cover all major themes of the New Testament. The cathedral contains the original 14th-century wooden iconostasis, hegumen's throne and carved sarcophagus of King Stefan.

In 2004, UNESCO listed the monastery on the World Heritage List, citing its frescoes as "one of the most valued examples of the so-called Palaeologan renaissance in Byzantine painting" and "a valuable record of the life in the 14th century". In 2006, it was added to the List of World Heritage Sites in danger due to the potential for attacks by ethnic-Albanian partisans; it is protected by the United Nations' KFOR.

On March 30, 2007 an explosion was heard near the monastery. The explosion was confirmed by Serbian and international sources in Kosovo. Bishop Teodosije, the prior of the Visoki De�ani monastery, stated that the incident was a grenade attack on the monastery, with an objective of sending threatening messages to the monks and KFOR forces.

-----------------------------

The Patriarchate of Pe� is a Serbian Orthodox monastery located near Pe�, Kosovo, a Serbian province under UN administration. The complex of churches is the spiritual seat and mausoleum of the Serbian archbishops and patriarchs.

On July 13, 2006 it was placed on UNESCO's World Heritage List as an extension of the Visoki De�ani site which was overall placed on the List of World Heritage Sites in danger. Source: Wikipedia

The precise date of the foundation of the Patriarchate is unknown. It is thought that while Saint Sava was still alive that the site became a metoh (land owned and governed by a monastery) of �i�a monastery, then the seat of the Serbian archbishopric.

Archbishop Arsenije I built the Church of the Holy Apostles, as he wanted the seat of the Serbian Church to be at a more secure location and closer to the centre of the country. Soon, around 1250, he ordered it decoration. Archbishop Nikodim I built the Church of Saint Demetrius around 1320, north of the other church. A decade later, around 1330, his successor, Archbishop Danilo II built a third church, south of the original one - the Church of the Holy Virgin Hodegetria to the south of which he added the small Church of Saint Nicholas. In front of the three main churches, he then raised a monumental narthex. In front of the narthex he built a tower. In the time of Archbishop Joanakije II, around 1345, the hitherto undecorated Church of Saint Demetrius was decorated with frescoes.

During the 14th century, small modifications were made to Church of the Holy Apostles, so some parts were decorated later. From the 13th to the 15th century, and in the 17th century, the Serb Patriarchs and Archbishops of Pe� were buried in the churches of the Patriarchate.

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Gra�anica monastery, AS DEPICTED ON SERBIAN 2 DINAR COINS!!!, is a Serbian Orthodox monastery located in the Serbian province of Kosovo. It was founded by king Stefan Milutin in 1321. On July 13, 2006 it was placed on UNESCO's World Heritage List under the name of Medieval Monuments in Kosovo which was overall placed on the List of World Heritage Sites in danger.

Gra�anica Monastery is one of King Milutin's last monumental endowments. It is situated in the village of Gra�anica, 5 km from Pri�tina, the administrative centre of Kosovo. The monastery is in the close vicinity of Lipljan (ancient Roman town of Ulpiana), the old residence of bishops.


The paintings of Gra�anica rank highest among the achievements of Milutin's period, characterized by influences of the Byzantine splendiferous and luxurious style called the Paleologan Renaissance. In terms of style, they are also related to the art of the other of Milutin's foundations.

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Our Lady of Ljevi�
is a 12th century Serbian Orthodox Church cathedral in the town of Prizren, Kosovo. It was converted into a mosque during the Ottoman Empire and then turn back into an Orthodox Church in early XX century.

On July 13, 2006 it was placed on UNESCO's World Heritage List as an extension of the Visoki De�ani site which was overall placed on the List of World Heritage Sites in danger.

The Church was guarded by KFOR soldiers between June 1999 and mid 2002. It was badly damaged by ethnic Albanian extremists on March 17, 2004 during a campaign of anti-Serbian rioting and persecution. A group of experts sponsored by the Council of Europe has visited the church several occasions to assess the damages, but no concrete steps have been taken. It is subject to constant lootings (the costly lead roof has been repeatedly stolen).


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MY POINT:

Kosovo, despite the wave of recognitions, is a failed state. It fails the criteria of a country. Kosovo, its leadership (former Albanian guerilla field commander) and its NATO backers have FAILED to protect the rights, homes, and historic treasures of the minorities, such as Serbs. They failed to protect Serbs from murder, (Podujevo Bus Bombing comes to mind!!! LOOK IT UP), failed to address their issues, rights. Kosovan Albanians have done NOTHING to deserve a state. What Serbia has done in Kosovo in 1980s / 1990s I opposed and criticized, but what has happened since 1999 is equally bad since it was ENDORSED by the Western countries. Ethnic cleansing, murder, destruction of cultural treasures, etc. - all of that is part of the big picture of the failure of EU, NATO and Albanians in Kosovo.

Plus, adding their double standards, hypocrisy and disregard for refugees (Palestine, anyone???), thats right - over 250,000 ethnic Serbians who have been forced to flee Kosovo since 1999.

We all watched on the world media in 1999 as NATO bombed Serbia (killing many civilians, mostly civilians, hitting hospitals, schools, homes, FOREIGN EMBASSIES (China), indiscriminately using cluster bombs - forbidden by Geneva conventions), watched and listened to the crying Albanian refugees how they were displaced by the Serbs. And now, its pretty much the other way. But there's no media to show this. It disgusts me ...

I've noticed many times that people make the misstake in thinking that Kosovo was a country on it's own and that the serbs "stole" it from the albanians.

Finally this issue has made headlines in Australia, although there really wasnt much to look forward to. Media here is obviously biased toward the Albanian side of the argument - quoting that Kosovo Albanians have been oppressed for 100 years and that they have finally won their freedom (Ch10 late night news last night, to be exact - all while showing wild celebrations from Pristina and some within Australia too from local Kosovars).

I've followed this topic (on and off) since before the '99 campaign and have never come across an argument that makes me agree that the Kosovars should rightfully gain independence.

The only reason why the Serbs should let the place go is because it has simply become a pain in the arse, which the country could really do without. But hey, that's not a strong argument AT ALL, considering what the place means to the country's heritage.

A sad and sorry event which will cause the shit to hit the fan all over the world for the next few decades.

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