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-- my friend and yours, carpal tunnel syndrome
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Woa
Maybe its time I do something before its too late.. Hope its gets better 
thanks for posting this up! soz to hear u have that. im going to get one of those gel mouse pads that u have been talking about. i already have one for my keyboard.
When i was reading that microsoft health tips (Fraggle poseted a link)i realised i have to change they way i sit @ the computer.
Everyone should have a look at that page.
sorry to hear sothis.
i cant really relate, cos i havent experienced but i can imagine that something like this will put a strain on your life, and that really is too bad. i'm not sure what else to say except thanx for informing us about this....
and i hope that you can "fix" the problem, even if by surgery, if you wish to do so....or any other way possible.
good luck
>JM<
too bad for you sothis.. but good thingy you bring it up... I am not totally free of pain myself from time to time.... at this moment me shoulder is hurting... thingies are actually changing a bit from time to time ... then the shoulder, then the wrist, then the elbow... 
what you all do have to consider is that for some it can also be a 'thing between the ears' as we call it in holland... you get to hear all of these stories and you think you have RSI or something... which is not always the case... (by this I am NOT saying sothis is thinking this or something... it's a true shame...
question 2 sothis: could you post a piccie of that gel-thingy, because I think I know what you mean, but I seriously consider buying one myself... just want to make sure I buy the good one
ps: I have my keyboard flat on the table... most people even ask me why
...but basicly that is not even enough ...
ps(2): not only compupeeps can get this... people who cut hair (I can't figure out the word for it at this moment) are also VERY catchy for this...
I'm a physio, the CTS I've seen doesn't usually refer pain into the forearms - although it can. Also, in the UK, it's fairly standard to get the results of EMG (nerve conduction) studies before a definitive diagnosis can be made. Maybe it's different in the States. RSI, however, more often does give that sort of pain. True, there's often a neural component to RSI as well. (RSI has gone through too many name changes to mention, mainly because no one is sure exactly what it is - I went to a big conference on it about a year ago so hopefully my info is fairly current). (And of course anyone suffering from CTS should be guided by their doctor).
There's not a lot exercise can do for CTS. If I see it I refer it to a surgeon after EMG confirms - it's a simple release of the structures putting pressure on the nerve. But RSI is very different. When it's chronic, it can be very resistant to all treatment of any description. Fortunately, if you catch it early, things are a lot brighter.
Ergonomics are important. Simple things like watching where you've got the mouse - the amount of times I see someone clicking away AT ARM'S LENGTH! Shoulder's rounded forwards and hunched up by the ears. But I think the real problems occur when people sustain these postures for long periods of time without a break. The body is designed to move (like we don't know that here 
) but at a comp it's easy to become immobile.
Nerve tissue ought to be able to glide through it's sheath. In the arm it extends all the way from the head to the fingers - that's why kolkiewolkie's symptoms are interesting. There are some exercise which specifically stretch the nerve tissue (a physio could teach them to anyone) but for most people, simply getting up and having a bloody good stretch every 15 or 30 minutes should be enough.
I'll shut up now. Wish you well sothis.
Sorry to hear about your trouble, Sothis. Hope you get better soon.
FWIW, here's my story:
I am a computer programmer. I use computers all day long and then come home and use a computer some more (ok, so I'm addicted). Anyway, I used to use a standard Microsoft scroll mouse both at work and at home. One day my hands and wrists started hurting very badly. I knew that I was starting to get CTS (or something similar), and it really scared me because computers are my life and my paycheck!
After some careful research, I made the following adjustments. Within a week my symptoms were gone. And they have not come back, even though my computer usage has not decreased.
Your mileage may vary, but these definitely helped me:
1. Replace your mouse with a Logitech TrackMan, the kind with the thumb ball: http://www.logitech.com/cf/products...overview.cfm/89. I have one on every computer that I use for extended periods of time, especially at work.
These things take some getting used to, but they keep your wrist movement to a minimum. The majority of movement on the TrackMan is with your thumb and fingers. Compare that with the wrist movement required to move around a mouse! Also, the TrackMan just looks cool and has the added bonus of deterring mouse users from using your computer.
When you get your TrackMan, make sure you set the mouse pointer speed so that you can sweep the screen (up/down and side to side) in one movement of your thumb. You should not have to pick up your thumb from the ball to gain more cursor distance. Also, Microsoft's "pointer acceleration" (if your computer has it) will let you make larger pointer movements by rolling the ball faster. This helps you get across the screen quickly and with shorter movements.
I AM a little concerned about my thumb joints wearing out, but I honestly have not had any trouble in that area, even with use for long periods of time. I've been using my TrackMan(s) for over two years now with no trouble.
The ONLY disadvantage I have found using the TrackMan is when working on any kind of graphics editing. This is due to the lack of precision in the ball.
Note: ditching my mouse for at TrackMan made the most improvement in my CTS-like symptoms!
2. Buy a gel wristpad to go in front of your keyboard. Make sure it's tall enough so that you can rest your wrists on it while you type. Again, I have one of these for each computer, especially at work. This is the second most helpful adjustment that I made.
3. Sitting position: make sure you are comfortable and you arms are at the right height relative to your keyboard and TrackMan (notice I didn't say mouse 
). Another important helper is armrests. Make sure you have a chair with armrests that support your arms as you type and use the trackball.
4. As Grunfeld pointed out, taking breaks frequently is a good thing, and not just for your wrists. I continue to make the mistake of sitting at my computer for hours on end with no break, and every time I come away with glazed eyes and physical fatigue. So get up and take a break to get the ol' blood flowing!
As I said earlier, your mileage may vary. These adjustments definitely helped ME get rid of my symptoms and prolong the life of my wrists. Please feel free to offer suggestions and/or corrections. (Oh, and no, I do not work for Logitech, I just like their TrackMan! )
Hmmm.. Sorry to hear you got the carpal. This is what computer addiction does to ya. Anyhow, there are other dangers to be concerned about too:
1. The CRT monitor emits EMFs that can alter your brainwaves. I don't have enough facts to figure out if it poses a danger to a person's health. I figure sitting in front of a monitor with little breaks for hours and hours is not healthy. I know eyesrain and other eye-related stresses (blur vision, near-sightedness, etc..) can be caused by the eyes being focused too long on the monitor.
maybe to prevent EMFs is to use a filter screen for the monitor.
BTW - do you work out or run or stretch? Cuz sitting on the comp all the time is like being a couch potato... ya become physcially unfit...
For mey, I'd never had problems with the keyboard.. there were days and months I chatted for 8-12 straight hours on icq but I never had wrist problems. There days and months on uh counterstrike and starcraft for 10+ hours.. These types of games required really fast typing and repetitive wrist movements. I'm not doing that again. LOL I used to spend lotz of hours on the comp. I"m starting to tone it down. if I can't live wiothout the cojmp, ther'es is soemthing wrong with me. hehe
Hope you get better.. take stock of your health too cuz TCS is usually health-related
Sorry to hear that....
By the way thanx....I didn't know this stuff was so serious, I must do something against it but I really don't know it that would be possible.
I can now feel a little pain in my wrist...or.....what???
Anyway good luck to you with the treatment...
Hope you get well soon
| quote: |
| Originally posted by u4ea:[soulstar] 1. The CRT monitor emits EMFs that can alter your brainwaves. I don't have enough facts to figure out if it poses a danger to a person's health. I figure sitting in front of a monitor with little breaks for hours and hours is not healthy. I know eyesrain and other eye-related stresses (blur vision, near-sightedness, etc..) can be caused by the eyes being focused too long on the monitor. |
*grabs the lcd and runs away with it* 
Hey Everyone-
New to the board. But thought I'd post my 2 cents on this subject (since I'm a sufferer as well).
The ball mouse is a great tool for your right hand). However, I first developed it in my left hand! In addition to the mouse, I used an ergonomic keyboard that slants, along with a gel wrist supporter. This helped tremendously. Other comments are also useful, including your posture, your entire arm position with arm rests remaining relatively level with the keyboard. The bottom line is you want to minimize the unnatural slant of your wrists as much as possible. If you hold your arms out and keep your wrists level with your arms, you'll notice a slight inward bend in the wrists. That's the natural position, which you'll want to keep. This is why an ergonomic keyboard helps out so much (at least for me).
Also, foam sqeeze balls, as well as other wrist exercises with dumbells can help increase the balance of overall wrist musculature, This can eventually help alleviate pain from the tired muscles in the wrist. Hope this helps.
CTS
sothis,
If it's any consolation to you, I've been diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome too, so I know how it feels. I wouldn't blame yourself too much for getting this condition. While it is true that maintaining a neutral wrist position is a good way to avoid this disorder, many people are predisposed to getting cts no matter how they work. For example, a lot of my friends use the computer a lot more than I do and bend their wrists, but have no effects. They have a hard time believing I have a real problem. There have been studies that have shed more light on the condition, here are a few facts:
- women are more likely to get cts (3 times more than men)
- thyroid conditons contribute to the problem
- low levels of a natural lubricant found inside the carpal tunnel lead to irration and infamation
Here are a few things I find help:
1. Buy voice recognition software, I use Dragon NaturallySpeaking, I'm using it right now to dictate this message. It's a great way to reduce the amount of typing you do.
2. Take ibuprofen after each meal. It helps reduce the swelling.
3. Wearing wrist braces at night really helps.
4. Stretch your wrists before and after doing computer work. Avoid doing squeezing exercises, they actually make condition worse.
5. Soak your hands in hot and cold water.
6. You can buy foot operated mouse.
7. Avoid repetitive computer activities such as video games and even a lot of AIM.
8. pay attention to your body and recognize early warning signs.
Hope this helps.
People
Thanks for this, as a result I've completely changed my posture, got a nice wrist rest, and a infra red mouse on both my PC's.
*removes glue*
the sticky's are piling up again hehe
*watches it slide slowly down the page*
*watches it pop back up to the top*
ooh fun!
Well, let's hope everyone has learned something from Sothis's pain and the other peoples posts...
I find I've gained really cool powers from being in front of my computer so much. For example, I can make people glow when I look at them now~ 
That really sucks to here about the syndrome deal. Hope things get better for you
Cheers,
Zigg's
www.djcluster.com
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Miss Proximus We call it RSI, repetitive strain injury..... |
yea i know some people with cts already. Whats fuckin worse is knowing my eyesight is going bad. I gotta get contacts now.
Well,looks like I'm on my way down the RSI (CPS) road myself now.For two weeks straight I've had consistant pain in my thumbs when I'm on the computer,and before sleep it is also quite bad. What I don't get tho,is why I got it.I've always had my arm so far inwards that my elbows rested on the table and I also have space under the table for my legs.I guess I didn't enough breaks or did enough exercise,and now I'm suffering from it
Anyways,I'll try to use both hands on the mouse from now on,and take regular breaks so that the blood can flow easier.And perhaps there is still hope for me,since I've only had these pains for a few weeks.What should I do now?Just go see a doctor while I'm at it?
My aunt has CTS and arthritis as well. She is in her 40's. It's a very sad thing and she had surgery for the CTS and takes medicine for the arthritis. I hope things work out for the best for you.
sand leaper: YES. go to the doctor. they can determine if you have it.
even with the right posture, etc.. you could get it. mine isnt constant anymore, but i find what really agitates it to come back is using the mouse a lot.. the constant moving of it and clicking. some people find if they get a trackball mouse, this helps.
the keyboard pad or mouse pad (to keep your wrist immobile) is a very good thing.
i also found out recently through a friend who has CTS as well, that his chiropractor told him if you tie cloth (or in his case, he bought arm braces that do the same thing nicely, which ill be doing soon) around your arm right below the elbow.. right where your arm starts getting big.. tie it tightly. this pulls the two bones together there, relieving pressure from the carpal tunnel.
i tried that last night because once my CTS acts up, even if i put my wrist brace on, it eventually gets really bad, makes me nauseous, and then i have to stop typing. im working on a database/web project and needed to do it last night so i didnt want to stop! tied the cloth tightly around my arm, and it was amazing how much it helped. ill be getting those arm braces soon.
the wrist braces, he explained, helps get rid of the pain.. the arm braces, helps to actually cure it for the time being.
my father had sugery for it about 2 years ago, and he still has chronic pain. As for myself though, the only time I feel pain from using a computer is when I play a computer game for a good amount of time, but the pain is in my shoulder and it's a burning type of pain. It usually goes away after 5-10 minutes when I'm done playing the game.
next victim
Hi Sothis, Hi everyone...Thx for sharing ur infos..
Sothis, I felt like reading my story at the beginning of ur post, I'm 21, computer freak (16h/24h daily), 3 Days ago I had this sharp (but not very painful) pain in my index, wedding and middle fingers' joints with the palm. Similarly for my wrist (palm side), that's where the carpal thingy must be. I also woke up for 2 days with numb hands. The first thing to do was definitly to google the web for some answers. Well, I've been very economic with my emailing, posting and coding, I fixed my workstation, and got the gel thing too for the last 2 days. And now the numbness has gone, ni more pain, my hands are only tired (I feel the need to strech it and massage it, yet the tireness remains), and that's the way it has been for a year or more.
I had all those Break Reminders downloaded (they keep popping up and making me click to ignore them, that's making it worse).
I guess that pain was only some warning, I'm not sure whether I'm have cts or not,,, but I'm acting as if I don't. I'm doing those hand yoga, playing tennis, and that would be unsutable if I have CTS. I'd like to know if I've shown the CTS symptoms or not, and if it's ok to go on with the hand exercices and other prevention activities, or not.
One last thing I can share from my own experience is that one very unhealthy machine is a portable computer, maybe only for the compaq design. They have this very sharp keyboard edge on which you should avoid laying your wrist, and that's impossible, specially if u use the mose pad. I guess that's what most injured my neurons...
I'd appreciate if u reply,,,
I've read a fair bit of information on carpal tunnel and it seems that the condition isn't fully understood. While it is generally accepted that using a computer is notorious for causing RSI's the mode is not fully understood. Buying yourself a carpal tunnel keyboard and using correct typing posture may or may not save you from the displeasure of ending up with an RSI. the amount of pressure you use for typing is thought to have to do a lot with it, most people don't realize it, but they press the keys *very* hard. There are very very expensive keyboards you can buy that virtually eliminate typing impact. they cost somewhere in the range of 800-1300 USD depending on which company / modle you get. http://www.datahand.com/products/personal.htm ... If i was in the IT industry I would definitely invest in one of these, or if I was on the computer a good portion of my day (more than four hours)... It will save you money in the long run =)
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