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A big part of the reason why they put in the upkeep system was that 3d technology was rather restricted at the time, and blizzard being blizzard, they wanted their game to run on as many systems as possible, so they came up with ways of reducing the unit count.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN the other thing that TFT (and when i speak of WC3 i really mean TFT) did over its predecessor was introduce proper diversity. the orcs and humans in 2 were practically identical units, just with different sprites. but i agree, wc3 always felt a little restrictive strategy-wise. especially if you've been lucky enough to gorge upon the majesty that is FA on a high end machine supcom is coming to the 360 champ, pick it up!!!!!!

Your first paragraph is VERY true. Except for maybe some small differences in the spells (Paladins could heal, which was a defense, Ogre-Mages could cast Bloodlust, which was an offense), the differences between the Humans and Orcs were purely for the effect of having them, not because it added a new strategic element. Air Gryphons were no more powerful than Dragons, Axe Throwers were no more powerful than Archers, etc. Clearly Blizzard was trying to diversify the game enough that each race had their own unique element (in WC3, I mean). I'll give them the credit they deserve in that they did an incredible job considering the hype and task they had before them.

I have yet to delve into the masterpiece known as FA, and since you now mention a 360 port is in the works, Ill finally have an opportunity without having to splurge on a massive upgrade of my machine. One thing is for sure though, playing with a controller will suck some serious ass!

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Originally posted by Project-K A big part of the reason why they put in the upkeep system was that 3d technology was rather restricted at the time, and blizzard being blizzard, they wanted their game to run on as many systems as possible, so they came up with ways of reducing the unit count.

I never even thought about this. Good point. There was this custom game on Bnet called "World War 3". It wasnt anywhere near as popular as, say, Dota or any tower defense games, but it was most definitely my favorite. It was essentially traditional Warcraft 3 without upkeep, so you could get as many units as you wanted. There were games where my PC literally could not move, the action was so intense. Upkeep is not only a new, strategic element thrown into to spice the game up with a little difficulty, but an excuse to make WC3 compatible on many more machines.

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Originally posted by Project-K A big part of the reason why they put in the upkeep system was that 3d technology was rather restricted at the time, and blizzard being blizzard, they wanted their game to run on as many systems as possible, so they came up with ways of reducing the unit count.

Got a source for that? I just figured it was for gameplay reasons�

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Originally posted by CONNERMAN2000 I have yet to delve into the masterpiece known as FA, and since you now mention a 360 port is in the works, Ill finally have an opportunity without having to splurge on a massive upgrade of my machine. One thing is for sure though, playing with a controller will suck some serious ass!

I dunno. They seem to be working really hard to bring supcom to the 360 controller. Obviously it'll never be as good as a mouse and keyboard, but since youre not playing against PC users everyone is in the same boat. I'd just wait for the reviews to see if they managed to get it right. Im really hoping it�s a success which can spawn further expansions. Though im not sure how big the RTS market on the 360 would be.

and then you can join me in my pro-supcom spammage of these here forums!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Got a source for that? I just figured it was for gameplay reasons�

No unfortunately. I follow most blizz related news, interviews, press releases, etc. So everything is just one big blur. I do remember the lead designer saying (I believe this was in a starcraft 2 interview) that at the time the technology didn't allow them to have as many units on the screen as they'd wanted, which is why they waited so long to make starcraft 2 in 3d, and that instead they opted for warcraft 3 because they thought it would be more suitable to a style of gameplay that revolved around small managed groups of units.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I dunno. They seem to be working really hard to bring supcom to the 360 controller. Obviously it'll never be as good as a mouse and keyboard, but since youre not playing against PC users everyone is in the same boat. I'd just wait for the reviews to see if they managed to get it right. Im really hoping it�s a success which can spawn further expansions. Though im not sure how big the RTS market on the 360 would be. and then you can join me in my pro-supcom spammage of these here forums!

The RTS market (on 360) apparently is growing. It started with LOTR: Battle for Middle Earth 2, then C&C3 got a port, and now, both SupCom and Red Alert 3 are set to arrive. Hopefully those designers map out a workable control scheme that won't require the precision of a mouse.

If they do, let the spamming begin!

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Supreme Commander's new interface makes use of the wheel select that console players will recognize from early screens and movies of Halo Wars. As soon as we picked up the controller we could tell that it's a more natural fit to an analog controller than the fan menus of Battle for Middle Earth II or Command & Conquer 3. Once you've selected a unit or building with the A Button, a tap on the d-pad brings up one of the three wheels (build, command, or group). Using the command wheel, for example, you can quickly tell one or more units to return fire, hold their ground, self-destruct, or assist another unit. It's a complex system -- Supreme Commander makes no apologies for how hardcore it is -- but in practice we found it to be entirely workable on the console. With the default controls, there's a powerful magnetic pull on units and buildings to assist the imprecise analog stick. You can adjust its strength or turn it off entirely, something we'll definitely want to toy around with once we get more time with the game. The magnet worked well with a few units on the screen but we question how useful it would be when trying to select one unit out of a hundred.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/846/846324p1.html

AHEM!
certain people from tasmania please feel free to take their wc3 and fa crap elsewhere and stop hijacking my thread wc3 was supposed to have a lot more focus on rpg gameplay and less massive rts battles but people who tested said it was shit so they had to make it more like wc2, thats why i thought the upkeep was in there, to keep the focus on smaller scale battles.

i dont have soulstorm yet so dont know how these "air units" change things, but it would be nice to see something like thunderhawk gunships useable in dow2. also the tyranids it would be funny to read posts by starcraft n00bs saying "omg they ripped off the zerg".

from the pics and teaser movie it looks like the blood ravens will be the focus again.

i thought the story was interesting in the first one, that doesn't mean all the dialogue is going to be brilliant though

chew balls phillip! you dont even have a PC fast enough to run DOW2 so why are you so excited about it?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN chew balls phillip! you dont even have a PC fast enough to run DOW2 so why are you so excited about it?

Settled.

can i also point out that

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The magnet worked well with a few units on the screen but we question how useful it would be when trying to select one unit out of a hundred.

and thats what the zoom is for - if you want to grab a single unit out of a hundred you just zoom in further. plus there's the fact that except when you're microing something like shields one at a time, this isnt really a game where you grab a single unit out of a sea of hundreds. when selecting idle engineers or your commander sure, but both have a toggle on the HUD.

it's never gonna be as good as a mouse imo because of the importance of rapid response in this game, but due to the user interface (which is second to NONE) it will lend itself to easier control on a gamepad compared to other titles. best of luck to them anyway.

how was that philbs?

fuck you all


i wonder if they will include all the races first time out now that nearly all of them are in dow1 after the expansions. or will we only get a couple and again have to wait and buy an add on pack?

Curious if Tyrannids and Dark Eldar will be on this game

i was reading in 'atomic' that dow2 will be fairly different in gameplay style to the first one. there is a non-linear single player campaign where you are based on a cruiser and are attacking some sector of space for some reason and can choose different missions that will give different rewards and paths. there will be no base building, instead they are focusing on smaller core groups of units and squads that you take with you on the campaign. every squad leader has their own face and name instead of the generic squads in the first one, to try and add more character and get you attached to your units more. your commander can upgrade equipment like dark crusade, and some enemies or bosses will drop loot like in diablo etc that you can take. sounds sweet

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Originally posted by Philby i was reading in 'atomic' that dow2 will be fairly different in gameplay style to the first one. there is a non-linear single player campaign where you are based on a cruiser and are attacking some sector of space for some reason and can choose different missions that will give different rewards and paths. there will be no base building, instead they are focusing on smaller core groups of units and squads that you take with you on the campaign. every squad leader has their own face and name instead of the generic squads in the first one, to try and add more character and get you attached to your units more. your commander can upgrade equipment like dark crusade, and some enemies or bosses will drop loot like in diablo etc that you can take. sounds sweet

really? that does sound pretty cool. i wonder if they'll revolve around the points system like the tabletop? one thing i loved about shogun was the ability to set max points for a match and then just choose whatever troops i wanted.

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Originally posted by Yohan Curious if Tyrannids and Dark Eldar will be on this game

Having watched a bunch of movies and reading the official forums, looks like shit microing 5-10 units isnt my idea of fun.

Yeah supposedly they wanted to remove macro almost completely. There was talk at some point of having just one building do everything. I don't know what they ended up going with in the end. I'm sure some warhammer fanboys can clarify.

Yeah, one building in SP. Maybe a couple more in MP.

The harcore fanboys actually sound pretty disappointed over at relic forums.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Having watched a bunch of movies and reading the official forums, looks like shit microing 5-10 units isnt my idea of fun.

looks like shit? wtf man.




what do you mean you'll have to micro manage?? it's just a bit smaller scale than dow1. even in dow1 you never had huge massive armies cause of the unit cap. i think the focus on more detailed smaller scale units, the focus on storyline and trying to get you engaged with the characters is an important step forward for this style of game.

just saw on relic's site it's gone gold as of the 19th, i thought it was gonna be a bit later!
read here

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Originally posted by Philby looks like shit? wtf man. what do you mean you'll have to micro manage?? it's just a bit smaller scale than dow1. even in dow1 you never had huge massive armies cause of the unit cap. i think the focus on more detailed smaller scale units, the focus on storyline and trying to get you engaged with the characters is an important step forward for this style of game.

like i said, looks like shit. its not an RTS anymore. its like an action RPG with RTS elements. bleh. i dont play an RTS for the characters, i play it for the challenge of controlling epic armies and punching on. all the game becomes now is a guessing game of which upgrades to get. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN like i said, looks like shit. its not an RTS anymore. its like an action RPG with RTS elements. bleh. i dont play an RTS for the characters, i play it for the challenge of controlling epic armies and punching on. all the game becomes now is a guessing game of which upgrades to get. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

you have too many rules for gaming.

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Originally posted by Stassi you have too many rules for gaming.

its called being discerning. im not saying the game is bad per se, im saying it is bad for me. and nobody else knows that more than i do

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN its called being discerning.

leave politics out of this.

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Originally posted by diggerz leave politics out of this.

i like you diggerz, youre funny.

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