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-- Emotion in Modern EDM
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quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Mathew Jonson - Symphony For The Apocalypse

Which opens the gate for another question... do the titles of songs affect your emotional response to them?

In other words, would your emotional response to that song differ if it were named Mathew Jonson - Cold Blue Ocean or Mathew Jonson - Babies in a Blender (assuming you heard/read the title prior to hearing the song, or at all)?

I think, yes. For me, anyway. Which seems shallow, but I definitely listen to a song differently than I would have when I don't know the title (or even artist), I think.

It could be named "Kiss Me I'm Irish" for all I fucking care...when you hear that first bit of gorgeous sweeping synth it's over...

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews I think this is quite relative. One man's cheesy is another one's soulless garbage. I'd say there is no place for big catchy hooks. Try to listen to this, it's something that's considered 'cool' now, even on RA: http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF305184-01-01-01.mp3 The emotions are there, they are just more subtle.

I think this is an argument that is almost a self-contradiction. If "it's all relative" then how can we in any way discuss general trends with regards emotional content? How can you say the emotional content of that track is "more subtle"? More subtle than what? What are you comparing it to? How can you quantify "subtlety" if you can't quantify emotion at all?

The myth here is that subtlety is desirable and superior. It's a myth we buy into more and more, but it's still a myth. The myth is that the sample you posted is somehow superior to any given late-90s prog track because it is subtle. The myth is that emotional content that is not subtlely presented is "overblown" and "cheesy", the latter being the greatest myth of all the ones here. Cheese is ultimately a myth- it predicates aesthetic ideologies.

The reality is that emotional content can be subtle or it can be direct. Neither are inherently good or bad. The reality is: direct presentation of emotional content is just as difficult to achieve as subtlety. A big catchy hook that works is just as valuable as music as any sample you can throw at me.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews The emotions are there, they are just more boring.

Fixed.

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Originally posted by PETRAN So what is the modern EDM that is "emotional and moving" and not just "driving/dancey/"fun"? Because, honestly, its getting very difficult to find it.

I sooner would get emotional when seeing thousands of party people having fun and completely get into trance than just from a track listening at home. Although I really like and enjoy massive build-ups, for me it's always the combination of music and surroundings which triggers the emotional part.
People dancing, eyes closed, not bothering what's happening around them, don't care people are watching or someone is thinking. I think (in) Trance also has to do with Emotions.
I also can remember like yesterday the first time I heard the long intro version of "Jam&Spoon - Right in the Night" with the great guitar intro in, at that time the biggest European disco, the Dockside Belgium. Very impressive and emotional.

But I never saw someone cry in the 15 years I went to clubs weekly.

every now and then some trance tracks pop up that really hit me, pure emotion... like in the last ASOT, actually two tracks in that one, the new alex morph track and daniel kandi remix of Time to Rest

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The myth here is that subtlety is desirable and superior. It's a myth we buy into more and more, but it's still a myth.

You're absolutely wrong, there's nothing more emotional than random bleepy-bloopy sounds in generic wank tech/minimal house tracks that everyone seems to be so infatuated with these days.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You think our emotions have changed in less than a decade? I don't accept that for a second. I think the dominant attitudes towards emotion in our sub-culture have changed, and most people will swallow the ideological myths around this shift, re-aligning themselves to the new ideology. Superlatives of beauty, emotion and cheese are being used all out of proportion today, usually by the people who have accepted the aesthetic upheaval of recent years without being critical of it.

no no, i don't mean emotions in the human sense, I mean something more like 'the vibe'. You are right on when you say attitudes towards emotion in sub-cultures.

For instance, there is a sort of hedonist, free of responsibility, destructive degenerate vibe in tech house/minimal/techno right now that is very different than the lovey-dovey vibe in old school rave

Bring back the lovey dovey vibe!

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The reality is that emotional content can be subtle or it can be direct. Neither are inherently good or bad. The reality is: direct presentation of emotional content is just as difficult to achieve as subtlety. A big catchy hook that works is just as valuable as music as any sample you can throw at me.

This I totally agree with.

I wasn't implying subtlety > direct emotions. You said that emotions are uncool nowadays - I think they are still glorified, just maybe in a way which doesn't suit you and your taste.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews This I totally agree with. I wasn't implying subtlety > direct emotions. You said that emotions are uncool nowadays - I think they are still glorified, just maybe in a way which doesn't suit you and your taste.

"The medium is the message."

You can't claim that the presentation (or "glorification", as you put it) is different but some root emotional meaning remains constant. And the medium currently fashionable is minimal and all its not-technically-minimal-but-copping-the-same-techniques imitator sub-genres. Less overt presentation = less overt = less. Less emotion is fashionable.

i blame the lack of e lately. all the idiots are on cocain now i liked it better before when all the idiots where on e and happy.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J "The medium is the message." You can't claim that the presentation (or "glorification", as you put it) is different but some root emotional meaning remains constant. And the medium currently fashionable is minimal and all its not-technically-minimal-but-copping-the-same-techniques imitator sub-genres. Less overt presentation = less overt = less. Less emotion is fashionable.

you might be right.

in any case i tend to feel that less explicit emotional content is better, because explicit emotion inevitably becomes a farce (armin's new album)

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Originally posted by palm i blame the lack of e lately. all the idiots are on cocain now i liked it better before when all the idiots where on e and happy.

and you might be right too

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Originally posted by Zombie0915 We need a return to craziness, a party you can show up to with blinking lights in your hair and sweat dripping off yer face and have nobody give you a dirty look, I doubt people could even get in the door like that anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Even if the music justified it, going mental to a set is uncool these days. You don't want to sound like some gushy '99 trance kid, do you?

quote:

Originally posted by Simplistic This thread stems from my observations of the typical raver and Trance fan. Um, they aren't that cool, in the fashion sense. Here's a question; why would you leave your house and go to a club, knowing you're going to be drawing attention to yourself by glowsticking/stringing, and dress like a complete slag? Sweat pants? Big baggy shirts? Faded fabrics? In my opinion, the proper dress code for a Trance dancer is; regular fit jeans, high-top brand new sneakers with big Nike/Puma/whatever logo on them, tight white undershirt with size small/medium t-shirt/shirt on top, armband/s, silver chain around neck, wet/futuristic type hair. Seriously, some kids are out of shape and oily and very unattractive. They should stay off the dance floor until they lose weight and get a sense of style.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 Kids all clique together acting like a high school dance with the fashion and the judgement, nobody does anything really bold or crazy for fear of standing out too much. I feel like todays EDM parties are about magnifying the world of social pretensiousness, rather than being a rejection of the usual they are instead an exageration of it. ...when I found party reports and stuff about this music it made me think that there was a movement of people out there manifesting my fantasies in real life, but I entered this game too late it seems, by the time I started going to these parties those ideals were dead and all that was left was this really vain bullshit.

UnWorldly, you're going to the wrong parties


they are still out there

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J "The medium is the message." You can't claim that the presentation (or "glorification", as you put it) is different but some root emotional meaning remains constant. And the medium currently fashionable is minimal and all its not-technically-minimal-but-copping-the-same-techniques imitator sub-genres. Less overt presentation = less overt = less. Less emotion is fashionable.

Do you think the listener's response to that has to be lesser too?

I think this is a general trend that applies to more than just music.

Unguarded enthusiasm and overt expression of emotion are out.

Sarcasm, the appearance of apathy, and ridicule are in. Those are what get you cool points. Their translation into music becomes "subtlety."

EDM is at a musical place similar to where classical was in the early 20th century, IMO.

At that time the fashionable composers felt that it would be "kitsch" to keep using the emotional gestures of the 19th century Romantic composers (similar to how producers today view the excesses of '90s trance). They thought of the melodically rich compositions and sweeping arrangements of those compositions as "old hat," part of an outmoded era of music, quite similar to how that RA reviewer spoke about the new Seaman Renaissance compilation. It was uncool to write such "obvious" stuff anymore. They thought it was beneath them, childish, to attempt to "move" people with music -- or at least it become "uncool" to try to do so in an open and accessible manner.

So what did they do?

They started writing atonal and process music, purposefully divorcing themselves from any close relationship to the emotions of their audiences, and striving for originality by going "beyond" tonality.

The EDM analogue to these atonal works are the complex, effects-laden but melodically sparse sounds adopted by so many "minimal" and tech-house producers. Going "beyond" the easy openness, enthusiasm, and frank expression of emotion that was so prevalent in '90s dance music.

I think that a lot of people these days have adopted an attitude I'll call "meanspirited lightheartedness."

It's sort of a different take on "not taking things seriously."

Instead of "don't needlessly stress yourself out by taking things too seriously" it's more like "don't take things too seriously -- so that you can make fun of lots of things, look cool, and disclaim any emotional involvement."

problem with that is, people were making minimal and process music back during the summer of love too. then though it had an experimental and idealistic/futurist motive, now it's simply a product of today's hip culture that is about apathy and irony

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael Which opens the gate for another question... do the titles of songs affect your emotional response to them? In other words, would your emotional response to that song differ if it were named Mathew Jonson - Cold Blue Ocean or Mathew Jonson - Babies in a Blender (assuming you heard/read the title prior to hearing the song, or at all)? I think, yes. For me, anyway. Which seems shallow, but I definitely listen to a song differently than I would have when I don't know the title (or even artist), I think.

I think the same. For me an example is Petter - Some Polyphony. Extremely powerful track, but the fact the name is cold and blunt, makes any emotional response I have to it seem silly to my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles cool points.

If I get to 100 do I get a secret bonus level?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Zombie0915, you're going to the wrong parties they are still out there

Fuck talk about my whole WMC experience. Fake mustaches, hugging random girls, striking up conversations with random people for no reason other than to converse, high fives given liberally.

People on message boards talk about the scene being stale and then I go out and see the opposite happening.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles

+1, stop going to shit clubs people

I think you're forgetting that, despite the scene having become way more globalized nowadays, there's still plenty of differences between every local scene. Things are genuinely shit in some places. Some places don't even have a scene.

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