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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Saudi Arabia is a degerate state, but it isn't an expanding colony wiping out the indigenous population. Big difference.

you didn't ask for a country where it occurs for the same reasons. you asked for a state to which the west was subservient despite the utter disregard for ethical norms or laws. i gave you one; one in which the conduct is far more brutal, despite the difference in reasons.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 you didn't ask for a country where it occurs for the same reasons. you asked for a state to which the west was subservient despite the utter disregard for ethical norms or laws. i gave you one; one in which the conduct is far more brutal, despite the difference in reasons.

How many UN resolutions has it violated in contrast? The West isn't subservient to Saudi Arabia; Saudi Arabia is subservient to the West.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I'm familiar with historical exagerations and fabrications. You can't avoid it if you've been through the school system.

if the Holocoust and the extermination camps are fabrication to you, our discussion is useless.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd Everyone keeps forgetting that Israel is a throroughly European country. I just don't want this detail to be overlooked when discussing the US-Israel relationship. I would venture to say, Israel's relationship with Europe is actually stronger than with the US, when you consider the # of Israeli tourists/workers there, the trade that goes on, the culture etc.

i.e. not semitic.

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Originally posted by Flotser if the Holocoust and the extermination camps are fabrication to you, our discussion is useless.

Show me where I said that.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Because there was no attempted extermination of an entire religious group. There was a madman belonging to the Thule Society, funded in part by the Rothchilds and Warburdgs, who wasn't even Aryan and had ideas of Aryan supremacy and creating a perfect aryan nation... all other ethnicities being inferior according to that perspective, even "non-ideal" Aryans. It's true there was plenty of racism and anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe at the time... and towards anyone else too. But let's not make connections that don't exist.

just because jewish people weren't being killed on the street by random people doesn't make the act any less an attempted extermination. the fact that so many soldiers were actually following through with orders implies there was a deep hatred for jewish people. you can't follow through with those acts unless there is a deep seeded hatred.

even if some soldiers feared death for not following through with the killings, that doesn't explain much because someone would have to kill the soldier for not killing the jews. i can't imagine that fellow soldiers would kill soldiers for not killing jews unless they themselves hated jews (they would have to feel justified in killing that other soldier). this wasn't one man's hatred. hitler certainly didn't kill 6 million jews by himself.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z How many UN resolutions has it violated in contrast? The West isn't subservient to Saudi Arabia; Saudi Arabia is subservient to the West.

i don't know how many. but i like how you subsequently change the parameters of the question in hopes that the answer no longer holds true.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z The West isn't subservient to Saudi Arabia; Saudi Arabia is subservient to the West.

please....we look the other way with all kinds of human rights violations commmited by saudi arabia because of oil. saudi arabia has something we want, so we don't upset them for fear of it being held back. why do leftist people always consider the demander of goods to have the upper hand. with oil, the one commodity that we have built our energy foundation upon, the supplier is king.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 just because jewish people weren't being killed on the street by random people doesn't make the act any less an attempted extermination. the fact that so many soldiers were actually following through with orders implies there was a deep hatred for jewish people. you can't follow through with those acts unless there is a deep seeded hatred. even if some soldiers feared death for not following through with the killings, that doesn't explain much because someone would have to kill the soldier for not killing the jews. i can't imagine that fellow soldiers would kill soldiers for not killing jews unless they themselves hated jews (they would have to feel justified in killing that other soldier). this wasn't one man's hatred. hitler certainly didn't kill 6 million jews by himself.

Yes, he didn't kill 6 million jews, that's about the only correct statement other than a prejudice towards Jews.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 i don't know how many. but i like how you subsequently change the parameters of the question in hopes that the answer no longer holds true.

No I didn't. If you're too dense, indoctrinated, or ignorant to understand the question that isn't my fault.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Show me where I said that.

you serious?

your answer to:

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Originally posted by Flotser do me a little favor, and at least look up the word "holocaust" in google images. and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holoca...rmination_camps thanks.

and

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Originally posted by Flotser now do me a favor, and follow the links i gave you in the previous post.

was

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I'm familiar with historical exagerations and fabrications. You can't avoid it if you've been through the school system.

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Originally posted by Flotser you serious? your answer to: and was

So where does it say concentration camps didn't exist or people were not exterminated in them? You clearly didn't read anything in that thread and are working off your assumptions again.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z So where does it say concentration camps didn't exist or people were not exterminated in them? You clearly didn't read anything in that thread and are working off your assumptions again.

excuse me,
but when you respond with the sentence saying:
"I'm familiar with historical exagerations and fabrications."
to a link about extermination camps in wikipedia, that is what i understand.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z No I didn't. If you're too dense, indoctrinated, or ignorant to understand the question that isn't my fault.

your question:

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z EDIT: Name me one other state or group that the West is completely subservient too regardless of utter disregard for every ethical norm or law. Then you might have a point.

my answer: Saudi arabia.

all those bullshit responses from you were not embedded in your original question. does saudi arabia have utter disregard ethical norms? does the United States look past that and not place sanctions on the country? answers: YES

how did you get so lucky to be the only person on this board that isn't ignorant, dense, or indoctrinated?

The Jews are a people that have preserved both its religious and racial ideals through many generations of persecutions. A race which has persisted in spite of terrific pressure, constanly applied and often without mercy or justice. But we must consider that it not only persisted, but has achieved great power and influence in every civilized country, our admiration is easily aroused. The problem comes when to regarding these people as either one of us or a JEW. And there lies the problem. The Jews, will reply with assurance that they are not a race but a religion. And to differentiate between them and other religious bodies is sheer Anti-Semistism. And every now and then that claim is justified.
It is necessary to distinguish between those Jews who have adopted a single nationality and to those whom Jewish nationality is the only one that counts.....I will write more later. But what I am getting at is that the Jews are the reason for this conflict and the only way to resolve it would be for the Americans to stop support and let there be a fight.

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Originally posted by guerra-monstru But what I am getting at is that the Jews are the reason for this conflict and the only way to resolve it would be for the Americans to stop support and let there be a fight.

i agree, but, if no other countries were involved, the outcome would not please many haters of jewish people. if the US wasn't involved, you certainly wouldn't see israel restrain from doing whatever necessary to achieve their goal.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 your question: my answer: Saudi arabia. all those bullshit responses from you were not embedded in your original question. does saudi arabia have utter disregard ethical norms? does the United States look past that and not place sanctions on the country? answers: YES

My question clearly had a a context, which you eigther missed or deliberately ignored.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 how did you get so lucky to be the only person on this board that isn't ignorant, dense, or indoctrinated?

We're all ignorant, dense, or indoctrinated... just to varying degrees.

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Originally posted by Flotser This is extremely ignorant and insulting of you. you deserve no respect. do me a little favor, and at least look up the word "holocaust" in google images. and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holoca...rmination_camps thanks.

quote:

Khiam detention center The Khiam Detention Center, located in Khiam, Lebanon, was a former French barrack complex originally built in the 1930s. It became a base for the Lebanese army before falling under control of the South Lebanon Army (SLA) and in 1985 was converted into a detention and interrogation centre. It remained in use for detention and interrogation of Lebanese civilians until Israel�s withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000, and the subsequent collapse of the SLA. Amnesty International[1] and Human Rights Watch[2] reported of the use of torture and other serious human rights abuses in the facility. Israel has denied any involvement in Khiam, claiming to have delegated operation of the centre to the South Lebanon Army (SLA) as far back as 1988. Robert Fisk, the British journalist who has spent 25 years informing from Lebanon, said about this prison: �The sadists of Khiam used to electrocute the penises of their prisoners and throw water over their bodies before plunging electrodes into their chests and kept them in pitch-black, solitary confinement for months. For many years, the Israelis even banned the Red Cross from visiting their foul prison. All the torturers fled across the border into Israel when the Israeli army retreated under fire from Lebanon almost seven years ago.�[3] About brutality, Fisk wrote: "The torturers were sadistic, often stupid men. There were pornographic magazines and cheap comics and puzzle books in their filthy quarters."[3] Fisk says that Israel has admitted training the torturers. The Israeli Air Force destroyed the prison during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/MDE15/021/2000
http://hrw.org/english/docs/1999/10/28/israb12795.htm
http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles2.htm

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z My question clearly had a a context, which you eigther missed or deliberately ignored.

i missed it(and i should point out that it isn't clear) because the post from which the question arose addresses several different points.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z We're all ignorant, dense, or indoctrinated... just to varying degrees.

fair enough.

EDIT: you also conveniently did not answer my question about whether you were as passionate about darfur. you should be more concerned with that issue if it has nothing to do with religion and it is about simply ethics and morals. could it be that since the persecution is not being done to muslims it is not as important to you? or could it be that because muslim people are winning that battle you don't care so much? which is it? or does it outrage you the same? you can't premise your position on palestine as being about ethics without being more outraged about darfur. any rational person can see that the palestinian situation is far better than the situation in darfur.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 i missed it(and i should point out that it isn't clear) because the post from which the question arose addresses several different points. fair enough. EDIT: you also conveniently did not answer my question about whether you were as passionate about darfur. you should be more concerned with that issue if it has nothing to do with religion and it is about simply ethics and morals. could it be that since the persecution is not being done to muslims it is not as important to you? or could it be that because muslim people are winning that battle you don't care so much? which is it? or does it outrage you the same? you can't premise your position on palestine as being about ethics without being more outraged about darfur. any rational person can see that the palestinian situation is far better than the situation in darfur.

You do realize that the darfur conflict, as fucked up as it is, is along ethnic and tribal divisions and not religious?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z You do realize that the darfur conflict, as fucked up as it is, is along ethnic and tribal divisions and not religious?

yes i do. i wasn't suggesting that it was religious. i was suggesting that you might not care as much because muslims aren't being persecuted. is that a factor that dissuades you from caring as much?

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 yes i do. i wasn't suggesting that it was religious. i was suggesting that you might not care as much because muslims aren't being persecuted. is that a factor that dissuades you from caring as much?

If you insist ... and Darfur is predominantly Muslim, just because they're not all Arab doesn't mean they're not Muslim.

EDIT: I must be native American too right?

quote:

Originally posted by tathi "Proudly violating the Geneva Convention since 1967"

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Originally posted by Flotser This is extremely ignorant and insulting of you. you deserve no respect. do me a little favor, and at least look up the word "holocaust" in google images. and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holoca...rmination_camps thanks.

How much longer are you gonna cry about the past and use the holocaust as an excuse to kill and murder Palestinians?

How much longer are you expeting the world to feel sorry for you?

stop living in the past,what is done is done.Lets move on FFS.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z If you insist ... and Darfur is predominantly Muslim, just because they're not all Arab doesn't mean they're not Muslim. EDIT: I must be native American too right?

if it suits you.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 if it suits you.

Does what suit me?

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