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-- Spinning club nights...do you create a tracklist?
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Originally posted by Stu Cox I'm not saying they wouldn't necessarily like electronic music, they're just not necessarily used to nights like that, or they don't know enough about it to have an opinion of what's cheesy and what isn't - they're probably having an awesome time, but throw it a tune they might know and it'll make it their night of the year. That's nearly always the case over here at least, maybe not half of the people there but enough people to make it worth bearing in mind. Maybe across the pond you've got the luxury of having crowds who only respond to the latest, most underground stuff. And to be perfectly honest I think you're talking shit if you're saying you'd turn down an gig if you knew that anything another than 100% of the people there were proper hardcore underground ravers, but... Anyway, my point in the first place (before I wandered off a little bit) was that you should just prepare yourself for eventualities like that. Everyone has classics they like to play every now and again, everyone has tunes that will be better known or more recognisable than others - just be prepared to pull these out if the crowd turns out to not be as underground as you might think.

I wasn't talking shit. Like Clovis said it is all about picking who you play for and where you play. I really don't like DJing in public that much so yes I would turn down a gig where I'd have to play to the tastes of a fickle crowd I don't know.

I did say that it is best to not create a tracklist and to read the crowd if that is what you are doing. I only disagreed with the statement that it is enjoyable. I didn't find it enjoyable, so that is why I stopped playing gigs for quite some time and only venture out when I know I'll be able to play what I want. Like I said everyone is different.

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Originally posted by Zild I wasn't talking shit. Like Clovis said it is all about picking who you play for and where you play. I really don't like DJing in public that much so yes I would turn down a gig where I'd have to play to the tastes of a fickle crowd I don't know. I did say that it is best to not create a tracklist and to read the crowd if that is what you are doing. I only disagreed with the statement that it is enjoyable. I didn't find it enjoyable, so that is why I stopped playing gigs for quite some time and only venture out when I know I'll be able to play what I want. Like I said everyone is different.

Just interested to know, when you do play out is it mostly at house parties then, or are there many clubs where you are which are that intimate that you know loads of people there?

There are club nights here I can go to and know maybe 1/4 of the people there on a good turnout, but never more than that really.

I certainly agree about having to play a whole set of crowd pleasing stuff, that's why I stopped doing mobile DJing and house parties for anyone other than people I knew would have an open-minded crowd, but that's open minded in as far as them actually accepting house/trance, rather than moaning that it's not cheesy pop, r'n'b or indie haha

Small clubs where I know everyone there, but I got tired of the club thing after doing it for a few years.

Like I said it just isn't for me. I'd rather work on productions at home than DJ out at the clubs here in this city.

However I think someone if they want to play bigger venues and be successful needs to be able to flow from one style to the next on a whim and be able to read the crowd. Most of the time crowds are fickle and what you want to play isn't what they are going to want to hear.

A lot of times I don't go out because I don't want to have to see and talk to 100 of my 'friends'. The electronic music scene isn't that big here so after a few years you start to know almost everyone.

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Originally posted by DjWoody Unless you're a Top Dj, that mentality is gonna get you nowhere. Remember your #1 Job as a DJ is to make the crowd happy and have them dancing all night. I agree with everything Stu said. I don't create playlists, but I do go to the club with a style on mind. However, I also go prepared to change my style at any given moment. Not all crowds are the same. Like Stu said, most of the time playlists go out the window the moment I get there. Perfect example was Friday night. I played at an underground party. I had in mind a dark house set. However, the moment I got on, I realized that was the wrong crowd for that style. Than I switched it up to trance and BAM!!! Everyone started dancing. Quite honestly, I didn't wanted to play trance but I did just to make sure the people there had fun. Which they did cause they kept complementing me and making little hearts.

you play to gay crowds

track finding

Ok, so let's suppose you go along with the idea that you are gonna start off with a specific tune or a maker track 2-3 songs in and then maybe have spurts of 3-4 tracks that you pre-plan cuz you just know they go awesome together. Then in the middle you go wherever. Several questions arise:

1) Assuming you know what genre/type of song you want to play to (for the crowd on the fly), how important is it to you that it goes (BPM, key, flow, etc.) with the last track you just played? We'll assume that you have a massive collection, one needs to have pretty impressive mental organizational skills to remember what track would be perfect.

which brings me to

2) How do each of you organize your music. Make the assumption we're talking CDs and in some cases 320s (therefore like 35 tracks/CD). How do you guys organize your tracks on those CDs and how do you recall their position (which CD, which track) when needed?

So in essence, if you are on the fly and the "right" songs are just popping into your head, how do you make sure they are going to go together and then, how do you find them in your collection (obviously many varied approaches, just wondering)? Also, as great as ANY DJ is wrt mixing, trying to mix two tracks you've never tried always has the faint possibility that they will end up clashing (even though the basics lign up), outro does not flatter the intro. How do you go about ensuring this doesn't occur (if at all)?

To the OP, honestly i don't think it should ever be taboo to have tracklists, cuz if you think about it, DJ radio shows are pre-planned and they dictate a vibe that people are meant to pick up (and i think that's what you were getting at, that you can design a fool-proof set). At the same time, if you have a reservoir of tracks that could swap places or chunks of tracks of another genre ready, this might be a safer alternative and a happy medium.

Re: track finding

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Originally posted by Transoholic Ok, so let's suppose you go along with the idea that you are gonna start off with a specific tune or a maker track 2-3 songs in and then maybe have spurts of 3-4 tracks that you pre-plan cuz you just know they go awesome together. Then in the middle you go wherever. Several questions arise: 1) Assuming you know what genre/type of song you want to play to (for the crowd on the fly), how important is it to you that it goes (BPM, key, flow, etc.) with the last track you just played? We'll assume that you have a massive collection, one needs to have pretty impressive mental organizational skills to remember what track would be perfect.

I don't do harmonic mixing so key is no deal for me (and most transitions I've done doesn't sound clashy) but I digress.
For most of the tracks play, I already know what it kinda sounds like, and by looking at name of the track, I have an idea what kind of tune it is and how it could fit into, even if it's a new tune because I've heard it at least once.
If I don't have a clue to what the tune sounds like, or I can't remember, I stick it in, and quickly fly to middle of the track to get an idea of how it sounds like to jog my memory.

I also don't pick just one track. I already have at least 2 other tracks I can pick to play, so I'm not in a hurry to pick the next tune with like 3 mins left on the previous track. Though this changes on how the crowd is reacting to the set and I may pick another tune on the fly.

quote:

which brings me to 2) How do each of you organize your music. Make the assumption we're talking CDs and in some cases 320s (therefore like 35 tracks/CD). How do you guys organize your tracks on those CDs and how do you recall their position (which CD, which track) when needed?

Generally I separate my binder into sections of genres. Each cd have max 3 tunes. I know some people like to fit in as many tunes into one cd as possible, and some only put 1 track per cd.
Generally when I burn a cd, i always burn in audio because you sometimes don't get to play on cdjs that can read mp3s. I also burn cds with similar style but tunes that don't go naturally together so that I can play two tunes by same producer next to next if I want to for example.

People have different ways of organizing their binder (and there's a good thread about this already) but the way I organize my binder works for me.

quote:

So in essence, if you are on the fly and the "right" songs are just popping into your head, how do you make sure they are going to go together and then, how do you find them in your collection (obviously many varied approaches, just wondering)?

Like many aspects of DJing, it's more of an instinct and intuition thing. I don't know exactly how to explain it, but I hear one track and I'm thinking of what tracks I have can fit the flow and progression that I want to build in my set.
Generally, I look for specific elements in the track that's playing, for example, certain melody or 'feel' and decide what the next track would be.

quote:

Also, as great as ANY DJ is wrt mixing, trying to mix two tracks you've never tried always has the faint possibility that they will end up clashing (even though the basics lign up), outro does not flatter the intro. How do you go about ensuring this doesn't occur (if at all)?

When I'm cueing up a track, I listen to the intro and see how long it lasts and how long of a transition i can do from the previous track. (Where the main melody kicks in, where is the break in the track, etc)
Same with outro. I listen to where it approximately begins and where the melody filters out and bland beats kick in.

Though this doesn't work always and some transitions I can do for like 3 mins depending on track.

quote:

To the OP, honestly i don't think it should ever be taboo to have tracklists, cuz if you think about it, DJ radio shows are pre-planned and they dictate a vibe that people are meant to pick up (and i think that's what you were getting at, that you can design a fool-proof set). At the same time, if you have a reservoir of tracks that could swap places or chunks of tracks of another genre ready, this might be a safer alternative and a happy medium.

DJing is more than just playing certain tracks.

Radio shows are just radio shows. The DJ doesn't have to read the crowd and its reaction, because he can't. He could play whatever he wants and it may be no indication of how he'd play live. He may experiment more. (Think Tiesto's new show) He could play tracks he would normally not play.

I don't believe radio shows are good indication for sure how a DJ would play a live set.

As for having a pre-determined tracklists, while I love guys like Nu-NRG and Yoji, they have same tracklists that they'd play every show and that's just boring. (I know Yoji plays other people's tunes now)

The best part of DJing is the crowd interaction, by that I mean is reading the crowd and adjusting your set accordingly. It is so rewarding to correct read the crowd and see the dancefloor just go off because you play the right track at the right time.

One set of tracklist might work in one gig, but it might not work in another gig. You never know what kind of crowd you're going to get, even for guys like Armin and Tiesto. (though they are pretty much predictable)

So, have an idea of what you'd like to play, but be prepared to adjust. (and why my main binder has everything from deep house to tech house to techy prog to uplifting trancey prog)

Re: track finding

quote:

Originally posted by Transoholic DJ radio shows are pre-planned

Mine certainly isn't, I barely manage to find enough time to burn off my new tunes before I go to the studio, let alone plan the entire show!!

Re: Re: track finding

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan If I don't have a clue to what the tune sounds like, or I can't remember, I stick it in, and quickly fly to middle of the track to get an idea of how it sounds like to jog my memory.

Yeah that's my approach mostly, although with your MK3s it's ALOT easier (so smooth)!

I personally organize my CDs according to type of sound (which would usually also mean same genre) and make a double of it. Unfortunately, until about 6 months ago, I tended to fit lots of tracks on a CD. I circumvented that problem by both 1)having an ACTUAL binder with printouts of the tracklists of each CD (and like you said, using intuition and familiarity) you end up remembering where they were. Burning according to track name helps alot too. 2) I made a folder on my macbook for each CD so that I can just search for the song and it will bring up the folder and the track order. Obviously this means if I use this method, people will think i'm using Ableton, but it's really just in case, when you really can't remember where that track is and you have a couple of minutes to beatmatch and mix.

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quote:

Same with outro. I listen to where it approximately begins and where the melody filters out and bland beats kick in.

Thing there is that let's say you are chosing to bring in track B. You mean you go through all the way til the end of it (while track A is playing) to see what the outro is like to plan track C? Cuz obviously you can't scan through the live track to know when it will start breaking down. I guess if you just listen to your tracks enough (which I guess we all do more than we think) you just sort of know what goes well. That's at least my strategy. That allows flexibility even though in a sense it's pre-planned, but more in a chose your adventure kind of way.

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I don't believe radio shows are good indication for sure how a DJ would play a live set.

Yeah good point, I guess I was just thinking ASOT, and when you think about it, most of Armin's events ARE an episode (or two or three), just without 30% of his "i'm playing this cuz i'm the only one who has access to it" tracks. I just know alot of people who do pre-plan to a large extent and who end up spinning really good sets. I think it's just prudent to have a rough skeleton and then go from there. As long as you can beatmatch and mix, you'll be fine. If you are just learning, i suppose that's where the "practice" element comes in. Once I was playing this show and a guy who is tight with the owner told me to put on this track (that he produced) right in the middle of my set (when it was really flowing in a dark dirty house direction), I did it and since alot of the people there knew him and had heard it, they appreciated it (it was NOT along the lines of what I was playing). Had the crowd not been so into his track just by virtue of knowing him, eh...it def would have killed the vibe. So yeah, your crowd is imp (for better or worse).

quote:

As for having a pre-determined tracklists, while I love guys like Nu-NRG and Yoji, they have same tracklists that they'd play every show and that's just boring

I can't comment on either cuz i havn't heard them enough times to detect that, but yes for SURE i know some people who repeat the same tracklists which is a WHOLE other story in itself. In that sense my "rough skeleton" varies almost completely from gig to gig although obviously you're gonna have some bombs that you just have to drop (some bombs stay bombs, some get old fast mind you)

quote:

So, have an idea of what you'd like to play, but be prepared to adjust. (and why my main binder has everything from deep house to tech house to techy prog to uplifting trancey prog)

Couldn't agree more with the "be prepared to adjust". That is the most important because like Yohan said, it's hard to read a crowd sometimes, but if it is blatantly obvious it's not working, you shouldn't be trapped. That's where the becoming a good DJ comes in, being able to adapt mentally and technically (choosing the right track that will get your set pumping again AND being able to pull it off mixwise). I also ALWAYS carry my complete set of every genre (i suppose not so easy for vinyl).

To avoid being patronizing, i will postface this by saying that this is just my two cents (which these days is just as good as two American cents...woohoo oil!) and I don't think there is a right or wrong way. Theoretically it is possible that your pre-planned set would be EXACTLY what everyone wanted. Sound of Trance, if that's the way you like to do it and if it seems to work for you, then obviously you ARE doing something right, no need to start doubting yourself. But again, I think everyone can agree that being ABLE to adjust is key.

you'll be fine. the crowd (in most cases) won't even notice you. the only people who usually pay attention are fellow dj's. just relax and have fun...

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