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quote:

bring down or at leats stabilize gas prices

McCain plans to "suspend the 18.4-cent-a-gallon federal gas tax and 24.4-cent diesel tax from Memorial Day to Labor Day. Over the same period, stop filling the Strategic Petroleum Reserve."

There are other alternatives than the "lesser of two evils"

I'm voting libertarian ( www.lp.org ) but check out some third parties.. There are other options out there, just that no one looks for them.

You've heard about the impact of Nader in 2000 and the potential impact of the Libertarian party (Bob Barr) in certain states (i.e. NH) in the upcoming election. And the % of vote that Nader got and Bob Barr might get is really small... 2%,3%, 5%... imagine if that number doubled or tripled to 10% or 15%. That would be a sizeable voting block thats abstaining from "politics as usual" and not voting for someone they don't agree with or believe in just because everyone else is...

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Expect to be lied to like you've been lied to in the past 8 years. The Republicans have never been less known to acknowledge their faults even before Bush

Agreed...

quote:

Would you, along with everyone else out in the blogosphere, like to point out exactly what the fuck you're talking about? I've been hearing this from Hillary people for 2-3 months now and it's complete bullshit, especially if you were supporting Hillary, since their voting records have been pretty much identical.

Yeah I'm not sure if he can be seen as this ultra-liberal people are trying to pin him down as (for being young and black)... If anything, I think he was the most conservative out of the pack...

quote:

Like who, Tony Rezko? Or are you talking about bullshit associations like William Ayers, people who aren't associates, but sat on boards with him, etc. I suppose that all of Ayers' students, since he's a college prof, would be unfit to be President as well?

Well, the fact that you already named a few jabs that CAN be taken against Obama is a scary thing. You know very well how the Republican hate machine works and how many more things they can dig up on the snap of a finger. We better brace ourselves for very hard times ahead because they will find endless ways to get the general public scared about voting for Barack Obama.

quote:

A lot less so in the past 8 years. The transformation of John McCain since 2000 has resulted in a pandering, more hawkish individual simply because he had to pick up W's voters that defeated him in 2000. He's not the same person.

True, although, from my own experience, even former Dems around here use that "he reaches across the aisle" line way too much. I disagree, but the fact that there's so many people that feel this way shows that his reputation from that era stuck with him, for the better.

quote:

You've got to be kidding. There are no worthwhile energy alternatives that will result in progress within a year. Do you think that this is just research and development that someone's been keeping locked up in a warehouse? This is the problem with this country - we're too impatient.

Agreed...

quote:

I'll believe this when I see it. McCain admits that he doesn't know economics very well and his main "strength," war isn't going so well in the eyes of the people.

Well, I thought he was the weakest in the Republican debates, and somehow he squeeked through. That simple fact shows that things he may say that make YOU laugh may very well resonate with a lot of other types of voters. For example, the whole "hope" and "change" thing made me roll my eyes whenever Obama spoke but it had a much more positive action for many people. His supporters touted him as the winner of every debate, but that was their enthusiasm talking. But what I saw was him time and time again saying "well, I agree with Senator Clinton" and then add an extra little bit. I heard him stutter and stammer a lot and he wasn't the same person as when he is on stage giving a speech. Thus, I don't think you should overestimate him, he's not as good of a debater as people are making him out to be.

quote:

I'm sure these will be coming from Obama's people. He didn't use them to get rid of Hillary and the Republicans have been using the "Obama's a Muslim" and "Barack Hussein Obama" cards all along.

I beg to differ; he got his surrogates and spokespeople to do the dirty work for him while he stood in the background like the innocent boy who did no wrong. That's the most common misconception when people say "he's not running a campaign like everyone else has in the past". This is a great strategy and would work very well for the general election (so in no way am I hating on him). However, the problem is that McCain knows how to do this tactic just as well. Even before Hillary conceded, a commercial went out down South that really mud-slinged the shit out of Obama. McCain then released a statement that day saying he "never authorized the commercial, nor does he agree with its views. He wants the tone of he 2008 election to be a positive one, and not a negative one as we're so used to in the past".... Bullshit.... But that shows how slick of a campaign he plans on running, and that was a good 2 months ago.

If You guys wanted change its too late we blew it. (In the words of Kucinich, if you people want change you better vote for who's out there for real change not for speech change because if we don't well we'll get wat we deserve)...
Ron Paul for me seemed like the only person that wasn't a flip-flopper and alwasy stayed in line for what he had to say. Some of the stuff he said on the debates was so true that he had people laughing like he was a clown. So happened the media of course cut him off bye bye ron paul. Now what do we have as our choise,(a) Mr. McCain or (b) Mr. Obama. hmmmmmmmmmmmm thats a hard one. how about (c) none of the above!

God Bless America.

obama getting 52% vs 15% mc...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121...=googlenews_wsj

;)

quote:

Originally posted by martinezequiel If You guys wanted change its too late we blew it. (In the words of Kucinich, if you people want change you better vote for who's out there for real change not for speech change because if we don't well we'll get wat we deserve)... Ron Paul for me seemed like the only person that wasn't a flip-flopper and alwasy stayed in line for what he had to say. Some of the stuff he said on the debates was so true that he had people laughing like he was a clown. So happened the media of course cut him off bye bye ron paul. Now what do we have as our choise,(a) Mr. McCain or (b) Mr. Obama. hmmmmmmmmmmmm thats a hard one. how about (c) none of the above! God Bless America.

It's a little to late to be making any sense. Sadly, people don't want to hear it.

Re: obama getting 52% vs 15% mc...

quote:

Originally posted by colibri http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121...=googlenews_wsj ;)

52% of Russians though ffs. 100% of Americans wouldn't want Putin in charge of Russia..

quote:

Originally posted by verndogs My wild guess is that Yan isn't a fan of subsidizied or national health care

neither am I, however, I am for the environment, a major shift in energy policy, and leaders actually being smarter than those they lead. my vote is for obama.

last week was a historic moment from a nation of slavery
to a more cordial one soon the rest of thelectorate will
embrace obama�s journey as an idealistic dreamer who is
not just concern abouthe welfare of his country rectifying
the misdeeds of the current administration but is more
aware and sensitive to the interconnectedness of the
world ...

its actually crazy that even within the 20-30s years old over one third would vote for mccain, i dont want to see what is coming from this way within the next month. especially from older generations.

we all can just hope for the u.s. and also the rest of the world that obama will make it.

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Expect to be lied to like you've been lied to in the past 8 years. The Republicans have never been less known to acknowledge their faults even before Bush

yep

quote:

Would you, along with everyone else out in the blogosphere, like to point out exactly what the fuck you're talking about? I've been hearing this from Hillary people for 2-3 months now and it's complete bullshit, especially if you were supporting Hillary, since their voting records have been pretty much identical.

well, to be fair, both hillary and obama are clear liberals. Do they have the "most" liberal voting record? Depends on who you ask. But to say either were moderates is just a lie.

quote:

Like who, Tony Rezko? Or are you talking about bullshit associations like William Ayers, people who aren't associates, but sat on boards with him, etc. I suppose that all of Ayers' students, since he's a college prof, would be unfit to be President as well?

They need to execute all of Bill Ayer's students in the gas chamber. That is the only way to rid of his influence.

quote:

A lot less so in the past 8 years. The transformation of John McCain since 2000 has resulted in a pandering, more hawkish individual simply because he had to pick up W's voters that defeated him in 2000. He's not the same person.

agreed

quote:

You've got to be kidding. There are no worthwhile energy alternatives that will result in progress within a year. Do you think that this is just research and development that someone's been keeping locked up in a warehouse? This is the problem with this country - we're too impatient. Disregarding all moral issues with the war, it's the same reason that we shouldn't have gotten involved in Iraq. It's always the "get rick quick" and "short-term solutions" ideas that usually set us back rather than move us forward. We're not willing to invest in anything if we can't see results in 6 months and that's just idiotic.

Republicans don't want alternative fuels. We should know this after the last 8 years. If your best friend owns an ice cream store in your neighborhood, you're not gonna go around town telling people ice cream is bad for you.

quote:

The problem is that when we were dumping money into "defense" programs so that we could go on offensive wars, we've spent a minute fraction on alternative energy projects.

Defense programs are their to limit US casualties. And what offensive war are you talking about? Iraq? Hardly. IF the intelligence was true, we had every right to invade Iraq. Maybe we should be spending more on intelligence. In any event, skimping on "defense" when the world wants you dead is a dumb idea. We should cut welfare instead.

quote:

Republicans have been using the "Obama's a Muslim" and "Barack Hussein Obama" cards all along.

Its not a tactic. They really believe that Obama is a muslim terrorist who has a secret Jihad against the US people.

quote:

Originally posted by Stef De Roux Has nothing to do with terrorists at all, i was implying that there are still a large amount of Americans who would not like to see Obama as president simply because of his race. Personally i no longer think the republican side is worth my vote(if i was of voting age) now that Romney is gone, so i currently support Barack. But i would not be surprised if there were a few poorly planned assassination attempts. Obama is a great candidate i just think that America is not ready for him yet.

Mitt Romney?
lol!

I dunno, if you ask me our votes are totally worthless, especially with Electronic voting systems designed to be tampered with. Furthermore I don't buy any politicians game because as soon as they take office they forget all those promises they made for the American people and take care of the lobbyists who gave them the most money to put him there in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by jashic Defense programs are their to limit US casualties. And what offensive war are you talking about? Iraq? Hardly. IF the intelligence was true, we had every right to invade Iraq. Maybe we should be spending more on intelligence. In any event, skimping on "defense" when the world wants you dead is a dumb idea. We should cut welfare instead.

That's a pretty big IF at this point.

Granted that the White House is taking the "he's a disgruntled employee" position, but have you been paying attention to former WH Press Secretary Scott McClellan's new book? Even without his first-hand accounts, are you seriously saying that you haven't seen enough evidence that the justifications were skewed in order to promote the war? I think it's been fairly clear that we disregarded evidence that showed Iraq had no WMDs and that only news supporting (sometimes already disregarded by the intelligence agencies as false) was given to the American people.

quote:

Originally posted by jashic Defense programs are their to limit US casualties. And what offensive war are you talking about? Iraq? Hardly. IF the intelligence was true, we had every right to invade Iraq. Maybe we should be spending more on intelligence.

Well, I liked your ice cream store example so I'll relate it to this. Pretend, you have a friend who owns an ice cream store, and a friend who's a health inspector. You get the health inspector to declare the competitor's ice cream store a failing inspection grade and have it shut down. Your friend with the ice cream store buys out the competitor at a cheap price out of their desperation to sell quickly, and voila, you have the Iraq War!

On this topic, more or less, I was having a conversation with some relatives this weekend about "the mafia". We came up with the conclusion that there's no difference between the mob and the government. Simply, in Italy we call it the mafia, and in America we call them cronies, friends, and lobbyists. Cheney's relationship to Halliburton is no different than the Gambino family shaking down the local government for construction jobs for their friends. Let's make an overdramatized and overglamorized movie about that. [/rant]

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