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-- Digital mixing vs. competent beat matching
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it's all about the music not the format, i learned on regular vinyl turntables 2 belt drives and a gemini 2 channel. know i use traktor with the time code vinyls so i have the option of auto tempo sync if i find that i need it. but who cares what you are using, not just any chap can fire up ableton and have a set lined up like it aint no thing. hense sasha and his pure ableton rig. don't hear anybody doubting any of sasha's sets. i'm more and more impressed every time i hear him

if i know for a fact that a DJ cant mix without the aid of a computer then yeah, im less than impressed. same way i'd be less than impressed with a rockstar that couldn't play guitar.

when it comes to big names i couldn't give a shit, coz i know they can mix and using a computer probably adds a lot to their set. but if its just some johnn-come-lately that hasn't had to deal with the blood, sweat & tears like i have, then it'd have to take something special for me to give a shit about them.

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Originally posted by RJT I also just want to add that I think part of the problem of the whole medium debate is that it seems many folks want to assert that the same standards for what qualifies as "good" dj'ing across the board between mediums (digital, CD, vinyl).

well put.

By the same token, though, I would argue that expectations simply go up across the different mediums. There are a lot of things that would be impressive with vinyl that wouldn't on a laptop, but I can't think of anything that would be impressive on a laptop but not on turntables.

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Originally posted by inconspicuous well put. By the same token, though, I would argue that expectations simply go up across the different mediums. There are a lot of things that would be impressive with vinyl that wouldn't on a laptop, but I can't think of anything that would be impressive on a laptop but not on turntables.

Yeah, that's a really sound point. Basically as the opportunities the various mediums present increase, so do expectations - and I think that's pretty clear between what I guess are the last two really big "leaps" (being from vinyl to CD, and CD to laptop) in dj'ing.

All in all, it's probably a good thing for everyone - people don't get off lightly for doing nothing more than leaning on technology, and the traditionalists on vinyl who are truly talented are still as impressive as ever.

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Originally posted by Az as long as the music is good and they're not using mixed in key, I think it's fine. Having a program beatmatching for you is one thing, but practically picking the records for you as well?..... fuck no.

Since when does mixed in key pick the track for you? Not that I use it myself, but I get the feeling you are perhaps confusing it for something else?

I use harmonic mixing most of the time, but that only means that I use music theory to give me an idea of what will sound good. And as always stated, its not just a question of putting tracks together in the same key, it�s your further understanding that makes the difference as with anything else mentioned in this thread it�s a tool, how you use it is the main point.

Nem

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Since when does mixed in key pick the track for you? Not that I use it myself, but I get the feeling you are perhaps confusing it for something else?

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click Start Processing and Mixed In Key will show you which songs mix together without a key clash

taken from www.mixedinkey.com
I'd say that practically picks the records for you.


sometimes key clashes are nice

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Originally posted by Az taken from www.mixedinkey.com I'd say that practically picks the records for you.

I agree in the sense that mixed in key is a tool for people who aren�t prepared or able to work out the key of their tracks and the music theory behind it.
But to believe that it�s going to be able to pick the right track for you in a live DJ set is a vast exageration of any softwares capabilities.

Mixed in key is purely there to help people identify the key of a track and keep track of the other tunes they have (Noteworthy is the fact that it�s not 100% accurate at identifying keys and someone with a trained ear will be much more accurate).

It does not even venture into the same ball park in terms of value when talking musical knowledge and DJ experience and I personally don�t understand the attack on this software as you are basing it around your own misconceptions of what it does.

Judging from your posts I would be inclined to state that you don�t mix harmonically either. To sumarise, you are basically dismissing a tool that you have never used that helps people do something which you have no idea how it works.

Don�t get me wrong, I have nothing personal against you, but you need to have a better understanding of something before trash talking it.

Nem

Who gives a shit!?

If it sounds good and people are dancing, the dj is doing his/her job.

As mentioned earlier the "format" doesn't matter to me.

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Originally posted by gl.tch If it sounds good and people are dancing, the dj is doing his/her job.

yes, i've come to really appreciate the live aspect of deejaying. it's all about drama and storytelling for me

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Originally posted by nefardec yes, i've come to really appreciate the live aspect of deejaying. it's all about drama and storytelling for me

I like live DJing because its all about the fucking moment.

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 I agree in the sense that mixed in key is a tool for people who aren�t prepared or able to work out the key of their tracks and the music theory behind it. But to believe that it�s going to be able to pick the right track for you in a live DJ set is a vast exageration of any softwares capabilities.

granted, but it does give you a list of tracks that may be suitable, instead of a DJ having to know their records and picking one himself. Hence the practically.

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Mixed in key is purely there to help people identify the key of a track and keep track of the other tunes they have (Noteworthy is the fact that it�s not 100% accurate at identifying keys and someone with a trained ear will be much more accurate).

but the whole point of it is to be able to arrange tracks that can be harmonically mixed together using the the bullshit "easy mix system" it has

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 It does not even venture into the same ball park in terms of value when talking musical knowledge and DJ experience and I personally don�t understand the attack on this software as you are basing it around your own misconceptions of what it does.

congratulations on stating the fucking obvious. I have no misconceptions about the software, it analyses records, and assigns them with the key and a number

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www.mixedinkey.com If you're in key of 4A, your next song can be 3A, 4A or 5A. You are simply subtracting or adding one hour. By using this method, your mixes will be harmonic.

which to me, although it may not be correct 100% of the time, is still suggesting records for a DJ is it not?

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Judging from your posts I would be inclined to state that you don�t mix harmonically either.

what in the fuck does that have to do with anything?

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 To sumarise, you are basically dismissing a tool that you have never used that helps people do something which you have no idea how it works.

I'm perfectly aware of how it works, I'm dismissing it as a shit tool that attempts to make things that are already quite easy, even easier, unnecessarily.

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Don�t get me wrong, I have nothing personal against you, but you need to have a better understanding of something before trash talking it. Nem

thats lovely, To summarise, I'm inclined to think you are a fucking bellend

All the DJs I look up to currently, do not key their music.

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Originally posted by Clovis All the DJs I look up to currently, do not key their music.

amen to that

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Originally posted by Az which to me, although it may not be correct 100% of the time, is still suggesting records for a DJ is it not?

it's just a proprietary system for the circle of fifths.
it's only suggesting not to sound like ass.

knowing what kind of music you play, it doesn't surprise me that you don't care much for key.

I key every one of my tracks. I tend to like tonal music, and I have a really picky ear. i don't really need to if I am playing something very drummy, but generally I like to play with the chords.



clovis, that's probably because they don't need to, since they're probably playing drummy, dissonant tracks

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec clovis, that's probably because they don't need to, since they're probably playing drummy, dissonant tracks

No, thats not it. They just know how to pick good tracks to play going by their instincts and present feeling. Sometimes the mix may be slightly off key but they almost always work.

Three, Damian Lazarus, Seth Troxler, Konrad Black, Magda...etc

None of them key their music, and all of them play music capable of clashing horrendously.


I've been using mixed in key for 6 months, and I have stopped using it. When I play best I pay no attention to keys, and often when tagging with other people I don't have the info on their tracks anyway so it is rendered useless.

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Originally posted by Clovis All the DJs I look up to currently, do not key their music.

Good for them.

Now why is that significant again?

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Originally posted by RJT Good for them. Now why is that significant again?

Because they are not any worse off than DJs who do, and vice versa.

Mixed In Key markets itself as a way to improve your DJing and "join the pros" which I think is absolutely fucking ludicrous.

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Originally posted by Clovis Because they are not any worse off than DJs who do, and vice versa.

That makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever. None.

Well, that doesn't bother me at all.

Seriously, how does being ignorant of a piece of information = having that information?



It really doesn't make any sense.

yeah i always key by ear and piano, and i'm not perfect so pretty much it's whatever sounds right to me.


the most practical reason I key, though, is that it's a way of filtering a massive collection in my CD case (10 tracks per cd, 200 cds) When I am playing a party also, i can choose something quickly that I know has a better chance of going off well if I am in a jam

when I am just fucking around by myself, I don't always mix harmonically, but for prepared mixes and promos I pretty much always do.


when im playing live, if I hear something in my head and then have that 'oh shit, i need to play this' moment, it doesn't matter what key I'm in, if it needs to go down, it will go down. the intuitive mixes are always the best

I just don't like the way I DJ when I pay attention to keys. It restricts my way of thinking about tracks too much. I do agree it helps you throw something together in a pinch, but I'd rather practice doing that on instinct.

I'd rather have every tool available to me and be able to choose tracks how the moment dictates, if that's by finding keys, I have them - if it's by "Oh shit, this will sound good", then I have that too.

You just made it sound like keying your tracks was some crutch you had to cast off in order to be a good DJ - and of the three you listed, two are regularly terrible (or at least hit or miss). I don't think they're "as well off" for not having every option open to them.

Who cares about mixed in key? I was labeling my music with tempo and key long before CDJs were standard in DJ booths. But maybe that is because I was forced to learn an instrument and into band and choir at a young age. I always knew that songs have a key and that not all of them are compatible. But like a piece of music sometimes a little bit of dissonance does work well. I'd much rather understand the theory but that is me.

It was one of the first things I thought of when learning to DJ and what I worked on immediately after learning to beatmatch. For me it helps expand my choice of mixes by showing me that songs I wouldn't normally think to play together are actually a really good match. Either way I'm sure there are some great DJs who know nothing about music theory and can't play any instruments.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT You just made it sound like keying your tracks was some crutch you had to cast off in order to be a good DJ - and of the three you listed, two are regularly terrible (or at least hit or miss). I don't think they're "as well off" for not having every option open to them.

I listed 5 DJs who inspire me the most and who I like best, off nights and bad shows included.

As for having available tools, I think that when a tool starts to dictate how I think about what to play next, it becomes more than just "extra info", and I don't enjoy it. When I caught myself more often than not scanning my case for compatible keys rather than simply thinking about what I thought would sound good and feel good next, I stopped keying my tracks.


Its really a matter of personal preference, but for me having key information overall was a negative impact on my DJing, but I'm glad I tried it and understand more or less how it works and what it means. I don't look down upon anyone who uses it much like I don't care what medium is used to play music off of.

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