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-- compressor vs. limiter
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quote:

the idea of a compresser is to squash the dynamic range and therefore reducing depth. so i reckon using a limiter is better as ur sound with be louder and u will still have the depth

lol. I think you need to read up on dynamic processing.

Seriously though, both compression and limiting can be used in a creative and corrective way. Personally i hardly ever use either compression or limiting except for when working with live takes etc, and even then just for taming peaks.

Eq is what i prefer to use to help gel things together.

Eq is a great way to make everything gel together and make your mix not muddy. But compression is a great way to make it sound more lively, by adding movement and depth(if you know how to work a compressor correctly). A compressor when set correctly runs in cycles(milliseconds, which when timed correctly gives a timed pattern). It is very useful to calculate the milliseconds. Divide 60 by your bpm and you get your ms for one beat or so on, depending on how you divide it up. Eq and Compression are my 2 favorite tools. ( oh and bitcrush )

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Don't limit by more than 1 dB or so on individual channels - it's essentially just extremely high compression and if the track is further compressed afterwards (which it almost always will be during the mastering phase) then you can end up with some real ugliness. The only time to use a limiter is if you have a few really weird peaks in an otherwise flat track (and even then, it's probably better to just fix those peaks). Obviously it's easier to do, but the right things aren't usually the easy things.

so don't limit more the 1db on individual channels?. got it. what about on a group of channels or a whole mixer like say percussions, or synths? same thing ? never more then 1db.

what about compressing? how much should i compress and at what rate and release. it must be different for say bass and kicks to synths , but there still must be a guideline to go by no?.

thanks guys but i'm still kinda unclear

quote:

Originally posted by lowski so don't limit more the 1db on individual channels?. got it. what about on a group of channels or a whole mixer like say percussions, or synths? same thing ? never more then 1db. what about compressing? how much should i compress and at what rate and release. it must be different for say bass and kicks to synths , but there still must be a guideline to go by no?. thanks guys but i'm still kinda unclear

Theres a Great thread that was here a few years ago about compressing the perfect kick, Idk where to find it on the site, but if you google Dave West Perfect Kick the tutorial should be there. It gives you a general idea of how to make a kick/bass fit in a mix.

quote:

Originally posted by lowski so don't limit more the 1db on individual channels?. got it. what about on a group of channels or a whole mixer like say percussions, or synths? same thing ? never more then 1db.

Oy. That's not a rule, my point is that limiters shouldn't really be used as part of the "mix" at all, unless you have a sample with an unusually loud transient or some other exceptional case. I say 1 dB because if you have to limit much more than that - anywhere at all in the mix - then you've probably fucked up the mix itself and the limiter is just a band-aid. The one and only exception I can think of is maybe a combined bass/kick channel that hasn't already been compressed much (but be very careful otherwise you'll get bad pumping).

quote:

what about compressing? how much should i compress and at what rate and release. it must be different for say bass and kicks to synths , but there still must be a guideline to go by no?.

*sigh*

No, there is no rule, no guideline, it depends entirely on what sound you're trying to compress.

Mixing is hard. There are no magic numbers you can plug in to get it right.

Thanks for replying, Diginut. I only got to the *sigh* myself and didn't feel up to typing anything.

quote:

Originally posted by lowski what about compressing? how much should i compress and at what rate and release. it must be different for say bass and kicks to synths , but there still must be a guideline to go by no?.

I'd just like to second DigiNut's *sigh*....

yeah the sigh helps alot hahaha. anyway i think i get what you are saying diginut.

last queastion, how do you decide on what kinda of attack and release you want?. could someone give me an example? thank you

That's a better question.

The controls on a compressor (usually attack, release, ratio and threshold - some have more controls, some less) all work together to affect the sound. The way a compressor affects sound is it pulls the volume down (once the volume of the sound is above the threshold), then brings it back up according to the way you've set up the controls - the attack determines how quickly the volume is turned down, the ratio determines how much it's turned down and the release determines how quickly the volume returns to full (when the volume of the sound drops back below the threshold).

To address your question in practical terms - in deciding your attack time, it's good to be aware of the sound's transients - is it a "sharp" percussive sound or a "soft" arpeggio-type-sound? Look at the waveform of a sound with a sharp attack transient, like a hihat sample - it will have a lot of energy right at the start, the initial "hit" - this will be much louder than the rest of the sample's waveform, and give the sound it's sharp sound. If you were to compress this sample with a very fast attack time, the volume would be turned down very quickly and the relationship between the initial hit and the rest of the hihat sample would be changed drastically - the sample would be dulled/ softened in a major way. The sharp character of the hihat would be changed. Whether or not you want this is a creative artistic decision. For soft synth sounds, with no sharp attack transients, a fast attack time could well be fine - the compressor will just react when the synth's volume goes over the threshold, whether that volume happens to be at the start of the sound or not.

That's the main consideration I have - is it a "hard" or "soft" sound that I'm compressing, do I want those attack transients to come through or not? Of course, how drastically it affects the transients also depends on the threshold and ratio - you can't just look at a single control on a compressor in isolation. Experience will help you here - there are many "right" ways to use a compressor, many great engineers use different approaches.

Regarding the release time, there are a few considerations - if the release time is very quick, the volume will be turned back up very quickly once the sound's volume falls back under the threshold, which can result in an audible "pushing up" of volume - pumping. This can be a useful creative effect - your choice. The release is also related to where the threshold is set - if the volume never goes back under the threshold, the compressor won't ever release, won't ever let the volume go back up to full. Assuming the threshold is set so that the release portion of the compressor comes into play, a common way to set it is so that the compressor has fully released by the time the next sound hits the compressor. Though it's important to listen to whether this sounds "musical" - whether it fits the groove you have happening. Potentially a slight adjustment will give you something that isn't only effective, but that also enhances the groove.

Really though, it's good to work out what you want a sound to do, know what the controls on a compressor do, then spend some studio sessions focusing on how to apply compression to sounds. Using compressors and hearing the results will likely help you much more than any amount of reading.

Then you'll have an awareness of why some people will *sigh* when asked how to compress a sound, without a) an audio sample of the sound and b) a clear description of what you want to do to the sound.

derail that helped out huge, thank you. i was clear on how to use the ratio and threshold , but i never really understood the attack and release part. you have made it much clearer.



now one other part i'm curious about is the auto release. what exactly is it doing to be automatic? does that meen that it will let the sound back up before the next hit?

quote:

Originally posted by palm on bassline, kick and other main elements i use multiple of both compressors and the limiter, eq before and after with both eq devices to add alot of fake sound. then some sidechaining, then the limiter just so i know it never gets out of controll somehow. this way i avoid fucked up mastering. example: hey so u use reason too? what kinda music u make?

/
can you post the pic i cant see it? also do you have any tracks in reason you've made?

derail - good pointers for newbies. Great post dude.

i felt like this thread was over so i deleted it. if someone knows a good and easy place for placing pictures please let me know caus i dont want to use my own website for it. tho meanwhile:

its not the same pic but its the same song and instrument-routing. a track im working on now. i have alot of tracks made in reason, actually everyone ive made so far is in reason.

I have a question thats a little off topic, What is a maximizer used for?

its all discussed as a limiter

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Pyster I have a question thats a little off topic, What is a maximizer used for?

im not 100 % sure bus think a maximizer is a little like a limited. on a limited you push the sound by decibels i.e ur output could be 0dB so u would push input up to make ur sound louder n push the peaks down. I think the maximxer is a bit the same but u push the sound up by a percentage rather than a decibel, and u also get a soft clip function on it too, could be wrong tho lol

A maximiser is nothing like a limiter, its more like an exciter...

as i said i may be wrong lol, and it seems i am lol

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Originally posted by Sanguis Mortuum A maximiser is nothing like a limiter, its more like an exciter...

it depends about which product you're speaking. the mximiser isn't a common type of plugin. some company uses this name for coloring plugins (bbe maximizer) other uses it as a brickwall limiter.

Yeah I've come across both types... Some add simple "distortion" by which I mean harmonics, and others use some sort of limiting or compression to bring the overall level up.

quote:

Originally posted by djandymac im not 100 % sure bus think a maximizer is a little like a limited. on a limited you push the sound by decibels i.e ur output could be 0dB so u would push input up to make ur sound louder n push the peaks down. I think the maximxer is a bit the same but u push the sound up by a percentage rather than a decibel, and u also get a soft clip function on it too, could be wrong tho lol

decibel and percentage are just two different names to measure the same thing.

this is just a shot in the dark, but im guessing a maximizer is like a limiter but it does more than just compress at extreme high ratio and instant attack, like color the sound some how. or it might be an expander+comperssor in one, like vintage warmer.

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus it depends about which product you're speaking. the mximiser isn't a common type of plugin. some company uses this name for coloring plugins (bbe maximizer) other uses it as a brickwall limiter.

Yeah you might be right, I was thinking of the BBE maximiser, Im not sure what other ones there are...

maybe i wasnt wrong then lol, i use the maximzer in cubase 4 to lift the overall sound, i use it rather than the limiter in cubase 4 because it has a soft clip function. Im only startin out so theres still a shit load i need to learn lol

quote:

Originally posted by djandymac maybe i wasnt wrong then lol, i use the maximzer in cubase 4 to lift the overall sound, i use it rather than the limited in cubase 4 because it has a soft clip function. Im only startin out so theres still a shit load i need to learn lol

Limiter not Limited

quote:

Originally posted by Lucidity Limiter not Limited

lol well spotted

teh maximazier in reason is alteast a limiter with a gain knob before and after so yeah if your source is low it can be maximized, if its too high it can be limited to what u want. and it adds distortion in a nice way. it can also delay the sound 10ms which is nice to use at some drums so the dont conflict too much and sound more live too, the 10ms delay is realy to give the device time to analize the input but i dont realy hear the diference other than the actual delay. what a maximizer usualy does i dont know caus i only know reason.

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