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-- Has the Internet killed the possibility of "underground" music?
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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J In a big, empty country like the US, maybe. Dubstep came from London, in the tiny, crowded UK. It's the same in most parts of Europe. The Internet has not sped up the spread of local scenes here. Don't assume the whole world works like the US.

dont assume i assume the whole world works like the US. i lived in munich for 2 years. i see little pot shots like you just did all the time, it makes me wonder if europeans stereotype people more than americans do, because it seems like every other day theres a european dig on this forum assuming everything from an american's mindset, carbon footprint, to eating habits. just cut it out already will you? you guys have much better education than we do, why dont you start showing it? you dont see us snickering at europeans do you? if so then its not nearly as much as the other way around. and your argument of population density is weeeeeak. word will spread from say, UK, to spain, faster with youtube than it will with kiss100 or mixmag. with video, you can get a better idea of a scene like what type of people the music attracts, what the type of venue looks like, equipment used, etc.

No.

quote:

Originally posted by TrancePharoah I think it depends on ones definition of 'underground'.

I think a definition 'underground' could be "a scene you have to look for, that isn't spoon-fed to you"

it's a relative definition.


if you've never heard electronic dance music before, to get into it you have to look for it, and so you would be digging beneath the establishment.

if you're on this site, you know that there is a sort of establishment within the scene, and so you can position yourself relative to that and dig under it.

This happens to me almost on a weekly basis. I try to make it constant practice to undermine my musical convictions as a way to grow.

Like the 'theory of class distinction', the underground/surface view or alternative/mainstream view is a very illusory way of looking at music. However, our mind itself is a web of illusions that together form our 'perspective' on the world. These illusions are the only shelter we have from the brutal emptiness and meaninglessness of eternity. Every 'truth' we hold to be self-evident is as much an illusion as the next. As such, I don't think it's terrible to create such illusions about music for oneself - this is simply our way of coping with the vast field music whose differences are ultimately negligable.

quote:

Originally posted by stev�sto word will spread from say, UK, to spain, faster with youtube than it will with kiss100 or mixmag. with video, you can get a better idea of a scene like what type of people the music attracts, what the type of venue looks like, equipment used, etc.

Except people don't really give a shit unless it's big enough. People have shit to do, nobody's sitting on youtube watching for new scenes to pop up.

There are millions of blogs/vlogs/what-have-you out there. Do you think anybody fucking reads/watches any of them? No. And that's the problem today: Too much amateur content and noone to listen to it. Bring on the self-centered generation. Whatever happened to keeping it to yourself?

quote:

Originally posted by stev�sto dont assume i assume the whole world works like the US. i lived in munich for 2 years. i see little pot shots like you just did all the time, it makes me wonder if europeans stereotype people more than americans do, because it seems like every other day theres a european dig on this forum assuming everything from an american's mindset, carbon footprint, to eating habits. just cut it out already will you? you guys have much better education than we do, why dont you start showing it? you dont see us snickering at europeans do you? if so then its not nearly as much as the other way around. and your argument of population density is weeeeeak. word will spread from say, UK, to spain, faster with youtube than it will with kiss100 or mixmag. with video, you can get a better idea of a scene like what type of people the music attracts, what the type of venue looks like, equipment used, etc.

You are making assumptions because you aren't applying your theories to what actually happens. Dubstep has spread more slowly than trance or jungle did, and it was born in the Internet age when they weren't. How do you explain it?

It takes more than Youtube videos for a scene to spread. When a scene is underground, it doesn't have digital downloads or many official releases. For a scene to spread it needs records to move and DJs. That doesn't happen any faster online than in reality. You get mixtapes and pirate sets go out on the Internet but you can't play them in a club. A DJ can travel from the UK to Germany as easily as an American can go from LA to Chicago. You can go from London to Bristol in the UK in a couple of hours on the train- how many major US cities are a couple of hours apart?

Who the hell care's if the music is underground or not. Good music is good music.

quote:

Originally posted by junkproject Who the hell care's if the music is underground or not. Good music is good music.

yes, but i think the argument has more to do with whether or not there is more 'good music' in the underground.

Also I really want examples of what you mean by "cheesy bubble gum pop dubstep", stevesto.

quote:

Originally posted by distant And that's the problem today: Too much amateur content and noone to listen to it. Bring on the self-centered generation. Whatever happened to keeping it to yourself?

Good point.

The ease of disseminating music makes it really tempting not to keep things to yourself -- to throw any old just-completed track on to the metaphorical online "shelf" on the off-chance that it will catch on -- rather than trying to really perfect a track or build your production skills over time.

Maybe when people finish tracks and are deciding whether to make them public, they need to take a longer time thinking about whether they really have something special on their hands or just another forgettable tidbit to add to the pile of mediocre works that grows more outrageously big with each passing day.

as far as keeping it to yourself goes...


one of the reasons I deejay is because I love to share my musical discoveries with others.

I think that's been one of the key aspects of deejaying since the beginning.

I don't think keeping it to yourself is a good thing for 'the scene'. Collaboration is a good thing. Mass marketing and mass media are not the same thing as sharing and collaboration

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec as far as keeping it to yourself goes... one of the reasons I deejay is because I love to share my musical discoveries with others. I think that's been one of the key aspects of deejaying since the beginning. I don't think keeping it to yourself is a good thing for 'the scene'. Collaboration is a good thing. Mass marketing and mass media is not the same thing as sharing and colloaboration

+∞

This is the first post in this thread that I have found worthwhile in the least.

well if that was in reference to my post... that's not what I meant by "keeping it to yourself". I said it to illustrate that there's a lot of half-assed bullshit out there that people put out to feed their egos. The internet isn't a magical, automatic source of enlightenment... you still gotta search the good underground shit out.

quote:

Originally posted by distant well if that was in reference to my post... that's not what I meant by "keeping it to yourself". I said it to illustrate that there's a lot of half-assed bullshit out there that people put out to feed their egos. The internet isn't a magical, automatic source of enlightenment... you still gotta search the good underground shit out.

ahh, ok then. yeah the blog culture is pretty terrible sometimes

still I think there are some blogs that manage to stay true to the underground sensibility

examples are

http://www.littlewhiteearbuds.com/
http://www.wordandsound.net/
http://basic_sounds.blogspot.com/
http://sound.modelfruit.com

quote:

Originally posted by distant well if that was in reference to my post... that's not what I meant by "keeping it to yourself". I said it to illustrate that there's a lot of half-assed bullshit out there that people put out to feed their egos. The internet isn't a magical, automatic source of enlightenment... you still gotta search the good underground shit out.

Yeah - I didn't really mean to say that I thought Adam's post was an argument against the one you were making, just that I agreed with his post and motivations for spinning in general.

And as for terms like "underground" in general - it's generally been my experience that people who use them in the context of "Hey, check out this sick new underground record", or something similar, aren't really concerned with actually sifting through the chaff to get to the wheat, they just want an excuse to use the term.

The whole game of "Which hipster can one-up the other with the most "underground" record?" really just sickens me in general.

dubfire killed my family.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak dubfire killed my family.

I heard he also raped your garbage disposal.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec examples are http://www.littlewhiteearbuds.com/ http://www.wordandsound.net/ http://basic_sounds.blogspot.com/ http://sound.modelfruit.com

+
http://infinitestatemachine.com/

One of the only good detroit + related electronics blogs.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT I heard he also raped your garbage disposal.

my korean neighbor is fine

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak my korean neighbor is fine

quote:

Originally posted by distant Also I really want examples of what you mean by "cheesy bubble gum pop dubstep", stevesto.

wrong thread. i didnt add to that thread because it went wayyy off topic. but fine here's an example of pop dubstep. however this is a pop dubstep i actually like, theres others that are similiar that are horrible and sound like the cheesy uk garage from way back:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ODyXPCmEAlI

quote:

Originally posted by RJT The whole game of "Which hipster can one-up the other with the most "underground" record?" really just sickens me in general.

there are a ton of serious record collectors out there as well...


but they aren't the ones making blogs haha

they are the ones posting at discogs

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak dubfire killed my family.

Need money for underground lessons.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT

www.instantrimshot.com

here:

http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/...act_session=323

quote:

a humble and wise Scotsman

quote:

Originally posted by diggerz here: http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/...act_session=323

"Literally, the way it has worked in the last year or so is that there is a number of DJs on Rinse FM and occasionally, when things are working properly, that pirate station is streamed online. If it�s not people record it. People record your show immediately after it has gone out live to the local area and there is a website called barefiles.com, which is this huge archive of grime and dubstep radio shows. That kind of connection between local pirate radio station and a web archive of all the mixes is kind of been quite an amazing fuel injection of how the music has spread."

this supports what i was saying.

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