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quote:

Originally posted by nrjizer http://www.cdrecyclingcenter.com/ Apparently you can ship them your old CDs and they'll recycle them properly.

Yeah, that's what the place I'm sending mine off to do, but the place I'm using is in the UK not the States... I don't really fancy airmailing a 20kg box across the Atlantic.

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Originally posted by Stu Cox From what I read, it sounded like it depended on the plastic... with CDs they actually extract plastic and aluminium from it, which can't be too easy...?

From the OSTA.org website:

"Just like all kinds of CDs a CD-R disc is a sandwich of a number of layers. First comes a polycarbonate plastic substrate containing a shallow spiral groove extending from the inside to the outside diameter of the disc. On top of this substrate is an organic dye recording layer (cyanine, phthalocyanine or azo) followed by a thin metal reflective layer (gold, silver alloy or silver) and finally an outer protective lacquer coating. Some discs are also topped with additional layers that improve scratch resistance, increase handling durability or provide surfaces suitable for labeling by inkjet or thermal transfer printers."

Stripping those layers has to be a difficult process - I'm not saying don't do it but it would be interesting to know actually how efficient the whole process is, and if it is therefore worthwhile.

There is a good argument raised by RJT about resource conservation, but this issue is usually far better addressed in most situations by thinking in terms of the most efficient use of that product before you use it (i.e. 10 tracks per CD and not 1 or 2).

Anyway, all this means bugger all unless the Chinese get hold of their manufacturing emissions and the US stops their obsession with huge cars.

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Originally posted by Schwab You completely missed the point.

Ok. Entirely possible. All I'm saying is that recycling some cd's really isn't all that green if I'm air conditioning a whole floor of my house that would otherwise be unused, running a couple screens, powered monitors, a power hungry and unnecessary Mac (and laptop next to it), with a host of entirely unnecessary toys to accompany it (amps, additional speakers, tables, synths, controllers, etc.). Recycling a few cd's after that is essentially symbolic and pretty much pissing in the wind. If it makes someone feel better, great. If I really gave a flip, though, I wouldn't have half the crap I do. But those aren't sacrifices we are willing to make, otherwise we wouldn't be on this board.

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Originally posted by Ray_Chappell Ok. Entirely possible. All I'm saying is that recycling some cd's really isn't all that green if I'm air conditioning a whole floor of my house that would otherwise be unused,...

Gotta think globally... to you, trying to recycle/reuse 100s of cds may not be 'thinking green'... but when you take thousands of bedroom djs all throwing 100s of cds away it adds up. Baby steps. As stated above, it's not about revamping your entire lifestyle. It's silly little things here and there that add up to significant saving when considered on a worldwide basis.

You're basically saying, "yea, I could throw a bottle in the recycle bin instead of the trash... but I run my AC, drive my car, thow away other trash, so recycling that bottle must not be 'thinking green.'

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Stripping those layers has to be a difficult process - I'm not saying don't do it but it would be interesting to know actually how efficient the whole process is, and if it is therefore worthwhile.

Well thinking about it it's probably not very different from recycling mixed plastics - different kinds of plastic and obviously metal as well melt at different temperatures, I gather with a lot of stuff they just heat them up to the lowest melting point, pour that off, heat them up a bit more to the next one then pour that off and so on so maybe it isn't actually any harder.

But generally the tougher the plastic the higher the temperature and that all takes energy (which I think is why PET is notoriously good for recycling, cos it can be done at such a low temperature)

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox Well thinking about it it's probably not very different from recycling mixed plastics - different kinds of plastic and obviously metal as well melt at different temperatures, I gather with a lot of stuff they just heat them up to the lowest melting point, pour that off, heat them up a bit more to the next one then pour that off and so on so maybe it isn't actually any harder. But generally the tougher the plastic the higher the temperature and that all takes energy (which I think is why PET is notoriously good for recycling, cos it can be done at such a low temperature)

Sounds like fractional distillation to me. Very easy to do.

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Originally posted by Gen3r4l1ty Gotta think globally... to you, trying to recycle/reuse 100s of cds may not be 'thinking green'... but when you take thousands of bedroom djs all throwing 100s of cds away it adds up. Baby steps. As stated above, it's not about revamping your entire lifestyle. It's silly little things here and there that add up to significant saving when considered on a worldwide basis. You're basically saying, "yea, I could throw a bottle in the recycle bin instead of the trash... but I run my AC, drive my car, thow away other trash, so recycling that bottle must not be 'thinking green.'

I see your point, but I think what I'm really trying to say is that tossing a bottle in the recycle bin while hopping in my 15 mpg SUV and cranking the ac to 60 degrees really isn't thinking green, it's convincing myself that I'm being green while my primary behaviors exhibit the opposite... It's the same thing as green preachers hopping around on private jets and living in 5000 square foot homes convinced they are saving the world - just at a smaller level. I'm not pointing fingers either - I fully acknowledge the waste around me. And I'm fine with it - it's why I work hard and I'm sure the planet will be ok. I just haven't convinced myself that I'm going green by tossing the plastic bottle in the bin. Like I said, to each his own... I'll stop here since I think I'm way off the original topic, and certainly not on the subject of dj'ing.

or you could send your old cd's to fellow ta's. tunes are tunes

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Originally posted by Zild Sounds like fractional distillation to me. Very easy to do.

Yeah pretty much... if I remember my chemistry A Level right, distillation is specifically boiling/evaporating and subsequent condensation of liquids to separate by boiling point, rather than melting of solids to separate by melting point.

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Originally posted by Omega_Blue or you could send your old cd's to fellow ta's. tunes are tunes

Yeah we talked about this, but if I'm hanging onto a copy on my computer (as I am, although admittedly there are probably quite a few tracks I wouldn't miss too much) it'd be a little bit illegal to send the CD copies out to other people. I don't really think the RIAA would accept "but I was trying to save the planet!" as a valid excuse.

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Originally posted by Ray_Chappell I agree that clubbing and such is about excess - as are most things I do. Do I really need a Mac Pro with two midi controllers, an electric guitar, a synth, a couple fans to keep it cool, and 4 lights in the studio running right now while I browse TA? Nada.

The key difference is that those things are usually sold or given away to another user, rather than just discarded, because they can still serve a practical purpose to someone even after you're done with them.

CDRs cannot really be re-used in this sense, and thus they are usually discarded once they have outlived their purpose.

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Originally posted by Polt The first ting that came to my mind would be to switch to a system like Serato, but you said that isn't an option for you. What you might want to do is burn more tracks to a cd and then in your cd wallet have a piece of paper for each disc with information on it that would go in front or behind the CD. Would give you enough space to have all the information down. Then again, you are going to be using paper, but at least that is a lot easier to recycle.

+1

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Originally posted by RJT Recycling plastics and (some) glass is an exceptionally efficient process. If we were talking about recycling cans/metal products, then yes - it's probably more wasteful/harmful to recycle them, but anyone making the claim that recycling plastics is inefficient really doesn't know what they're talking about. /Environmental Ethics degree in action. I knew it would come in handy some day.

To be pedantic, recycling of ferrous metal (iron and steel) and non-ferrous metal (aluminum) are probably the most efficient and effective forms of recycling. These materials don't experience "downgrading" by the recycling process. Aluminum, for example, gets smelted and reprocessed into a form that is practically indistinguishable from virgin aluminum.

Plastic, on the other hand, can be a pain to recycle because 1) it needs to be sorted according to those little numbers on the bottom of your bottles, 2) the long polymer chains that make up plastics are difficult to degrade, and 3) removing additives in plastics (dyes, etc) require even further processing.

CDs are made up of polycarbonate, aluminum and lacquer. Polycarbonate is not a commonly recycled plastic, and the metal and solvents only serve to complicate the recycling process.

Therefore, keep sorting your cans! But I wouldn't bother too much with the CDs, though maybe you can make some art project out of them? Lifesize model of Frankie Knuckles perhaps?

give your old cd's to a young dj who is learning like we used to do with records.

everyone wins.

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Originally posted by elFreak give your old cd's to a young dj who is learning like we used to do with records. everyone wins.

We have a winnar.

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Originally posted by beatsnbleeps To be pedantic, recycling of ferrous metal (iron and steel) and non-ferrous metal (aluminum) are probably the most efficient and effective forms of recycling. These materials don't experience "downgrading" by the recycling process. Aluminum, for example, gets smelted and reprocessed into a form that is practically indistinguishable from virgin aluminum. Plastic, on the other hand, can be a pain to recycle because 1) it needs to be sorted according to those little numbers on the bottom of your bottles, 2) the long polymer chains that make up plastics are difficult to degrade, and 3) removing additives in plastics (dyes, etc) require even further processing. CDs are made up of polycarbonate, aluminum and lacquer. Polycarbonate is not a commonly recycled plastic, and the metal and solvents only serve to complicate the recycling process. Therefore, keep sorting your cans! But I wouldn't bother too much with the CDs, though maybe you can make some art project out of them? Lifesize model of Frankie Knuckles perhaps?

I don't know where you're getting your information from, but just because the recycling process for ferrous and non-ferrous metals is, as you say "efficient", doesn't mean that it takes less energy or doesn't create worse biproducts than the recycling of plastics.

As a general rule of thumb, and particularly for ferrous metals, the necessary energy input coupled with the waste created during the smelting process is an exponentially larger drain on our resources than for almost all plastics (note: almost - I am not necessarily making this claim for CD's).

And regardless of all of this talk of recycling, in truth - recycling isn't really that great for the environment as a wholes, hence the lack of focus on the 3 R's these days. Reduce and reuse is the route most folks would tell you to take - which, in this case, means stop using CD's all together and rock a laptop.

I'm not sure where you're getting YOUR information from then, because the sources I've seen say just the opposite of what you claim...

sorry, this is gonna be a bit long.

From the US EPA :

quote:

The average aluminum can contains 40 percent postconsumer recycled aluminum. Recovering aluminum for recycling saves money and dramatically reduces energy consumption. The aluminum can recycling process saves 95 percent of the energy needed to produce aluminum from bauxite ore, as well as natural resources, according to the Aluminum Association. Making a ton of aluminum cans from virgin ore, or bauxite, uses 229 BTUs of energy. In contrast, producing cans from recycled aluminum uses only 8 BTUs of energy per can.

From here:

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The use of secondary metal, in comparison to ore, gives a dramatic energy saving, significantly reduces the amount of water needed and causes less air pollution.

And on plastic recycling:

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Collecting plastic containers at curbside fosters the belief that, like aluminum and glass, the recovered material is converted into new containers. In fact, none of the recovered plastic containers from Berkeley are being made into containers again but into new secondary products such as textiles, parking lot bumpers, or plastic lumber � all unrecyclable products. This does not reduce the use of virgin materials in plastic packaging.

To name a few.

It's true, if you think about it: ore is hardly ever a pure chunk of metal. It's made up of a good amount of dirt, rock, and perhaps other unwanted minerals that need to be extracted. Additionally, not all ore can be strip mined, or pulled off the surface, which makes the mining process more costly and complicated. Strip mining is also just plain ugly.

Wikipedia has a lot of information too. Don't trust Wiki? Do your own research. And in case you're wondering where I'm coming from, I work in a materials lab, while studying for my engineering degree. I've talked to chemistry experts who back this info up, too. I don't mean to be a jerk, I just want there to be a better understanding of the science behind recycling.

But, I do agree with you about rocking a laptop

For what it's worth, going DVR was one of the best decisions I ever made as a DJ.

I used M-Audio Torq for a while and it was flawless for what I was doing. Had a great time and solved the problem the OP describes. It's much more sustainable.

Good luck.

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