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-- US now winning Iraq war that seemed lost
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Originally posted by LatinLover I did! He is just a frustrated liberal I mean the far left comes out bitching about the war and yet they have no strategy for victory. Okay, I know what the strategy is.... to get out by 2009

Here's a strategy. Don't invade countries based on falsehoods.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you're a fucking moron. occrider is anything but a (US) liberal. your understanding of political theory is shit. one wonders why you even bother posting in here as all it does is display your lack of political acumen. do us all a favour and fuck off.

There is no need for foul language. Don't let your frustration ge to you now.

If you don't like my stance on many issues, I invite you and encourage you to challenge me in a respectful manner.

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Originally posted by Krypton Here's a strategy. Don't invade countries based on falsehoods.

Krypton,

If you look back and knock our heads out thinking if we were lied too or not, we will not get anywhere with the challenges of the present moment. History will judge Bush, so all you guys do yourself a favor and leave historians for that job.

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Originally posted by LatinLover There is no need for foul language. Don't let your frustration ge to you now. If you don't like my stance on many issues, I invite you and encourage you to challenge me in a respectful manner.

you mean the way you attack other posters for being "liberals" even though they're not?

I love how people from both sides of the aisle come out to bitch slap Arnold.

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Originally posted by LatinLover Krypton, If you look back and knock our heads out thinking if we were lied too or not, we will not get anywhere with the challenges of the present moment. History will judge Bush, so all you guys do yourself a favor and leave historians for that job.

It doesn't take a historian to know that the reasons given for the war were false. It doesn't take a historian to know the war was a violation of the UN Charter. Don't worry, the historians will judge this administration very harshly. Luckily, we don't have to wait 50 years to know when we see a total fuck up in the White House.

Now the future...Give Iraq back to the Iraqi people. For the future, if we go to war, we go to war because someone attacked us. We should be paying war reparations to all 5 million Iraqi refugees. We should be paying compensation to all every one we tortured, and to the families of the more than 100 people we killed by torturing them.

I know that you know this war was wrong. The fact that you want us all to simply forget, and leave the blunder to historians, really is alarming. So next time the president fucks up, we should wait for the historians to tell us he fucked up? I don't think so..

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Originally posted by Zild I love how people from both sides of the aisle come out to bitch slap Arnold.

Radical nationalists need a good bitch slapping..

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Originally posted by Zild I love how people from both sides of the aisle come out to bitch slap Arnold.

Bitch slap me? People in this board are either 1. Frustrated liberals 2. Joining the Obama bandwagon after their idol Paul lost
3. People with bad judgement

My clear conscious liberates me from being categorized in any of those

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Originally posted by LatinLover My clear conscious liberates me from being categorized in any of those

Unfortunately you calling Karl Rove a "patriotic and decent" man, puts you SQUARELY in category #3

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Originally posted by LatinLover If you don't like my stance on many issues, I invite you and encourage you to challenge me in a respectful manner.

Why, whenever you're challenged you side step the argument or just don't reply unless you think you have something to stand on. It shows how much you believe in your own convictions...

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Originally posted by Clovis Why, whenever you're challenged you side step the argument or just don't reply unless you think you have something to stand on. It shows how much you believe in your own convictions...

Or forget about radical nationalist fuck ups in the White House. Let's forget about it all and worry about the future! YAY!!!!

Latin, if given a chance, will you vote for Bush for third term?

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Originally posted by Kinezi Latin, if given a chance, will you vote for Bush for third term?

I believe that presidents should only serve 2 terms. A third term makes seem a president like a dictator. Bush did his job in two terms and we should give the opportunity to other candidates.

Even if we do/did win, Its to little to late at this point, the U.S. has suffered and lost the world opinion over all and looks like the bad guy and bully at this point. And you really cant claim victory yet, looks of winning and won are 2 different things.

I'm not a RADICAL nationalist, but I'd take that any day over being a moderate socialist like Krypton is.

The Iraq invasion was one that was misleading to the public and mishandled by President Bush. But we are in it, and we must finish responsibly, and with our own honor at heart.

Fuck what the world thinks, we need a president who is gonna do what he believes is right! Not a lying, opportunity taking individual who will make decisions based on political expediency.

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Originally posted by Atmos we need a president who is gonna do what he believes is right! Not a lying, opportunity taking individual who will make decisions based on political expediency.

Thats not possible. USA is afterall a capitalist country.

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Originally posted by Atmos I'm not a RADICAL nationalist, but I'd take that any day over being a moderate socialist like Krypton is. The Iraq invasion was one that was misleading to the public and mishandled by President Bush. But we are in it, and we must finish responsibly, and with our own honor at heart. Fuck what the world thinks, we need a president who is gonna do what he believes is right! Not a lying, opportunity taking individual who will make decisions based on political expediency.

You apparently are, if not a radical nationalist, close to it. The view that world opinion should not be respected, yea, that's pretty nationalist..And if we don't have to respect world opinion, why should Russia? Why should China? It's a two way street...

My point is that some people care too much. While China's air is full of smog, and Russia lets their submarines full of nuclear waste decompose in the ocean we have environmentalists slowing down our growth opportunities. And yea I'm very nationalist, is that such a bad thing? Is it not better than criticizing everything and saying 'our government is a piece of shit'?

And by saying we need someone who is gonna do something he believes is right and not for political expediency I'm referring to Obama.

McCain has long quarreled with his own party because he speaks out and isn't afraid to take risks. We need someone with a strong character and morals at heart; someone who would risk taking heat to accomplish what must be accomplished.

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Originally posted by Atmos And yea I'm very nationalist, is that such a bad thing? Is it not better than criticizing everything and saying 'our government is a piece of shit'? .

Yes it is. Moderation is key, leaning to far either way is never good.

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Originally posted by Moongoose Yes it is. Moderation is key, leaning to far either way is never good.

I'm not an extremist either man. I don't preach American pride and whatnot, but I sure as hell defend this country.

I'd say most of the time being a blind idiot is worse for your country than being critical. Actually change that to all of the time.

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Originally posted by Atmos My point is that some people care too much. While China's air is full of smog, and Russia lets their submarines full of nuclear waste decompose in the ocean we have environmentalists slowing down our growth opportunities. And yea I'm very nationalist, is that such a bad thing? Is it not better than criticizing everything and saying 'our government is a piece of shit'? And by saying we need someone who is gonna do something he believes is right and not for political expediency I'm referring to Obama. McCain has long quarreled with his own party because he speaks out and isn't afraid to take risks. We need someone with a strong character and morals at heart; someone who would risk taking heat to accomplish what must be accomplished.

You can be a nationalist all you want. In fact, I love this country very much, as a nationalist. But when nationalism becomes a disrespect for world opinion or for rights of the people, then it becomes radical, and dangerous. You said, "Fuck what the world thinks." Obviously, you care nothing for world opinion. You seem to take nationalism to a higher level beyond simple love of country. I like to call that radical..

Loving your country does not mean loving your government. This country was founded on a suspicion of the state. The constitution is created to keep the power with the people, and take away from the state. I believe radical nationalists, who have unquestioned loyalty of the government, are more dangerous to this country than anything Al-Qaida could possibly do. It is you people who would watch this country slide into a police state with a smile on your face! As Latinlover says, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

This country needs judgment, fuck character. That's all you right wingers care about. Character. Character ain't shit when it comes to launching a war. We need judgment. Hitler had a lot of character, but obviously lacked in judgment, GREATLY...

I can criticize the government all I want, because guess what, the government sucks ass. The government is taking this country IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. I have every right to launch a revolution if I wanted to when the state crosses its boundary of authority. The Founding Fathers were probably the greatest liberal progressive REVOLUTIONARIES this country will ever have. I hate the government. The only thing it should exist for is to protect life, liberty, and property. Otherwise fuck it.

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Originally posted by Krypton The only thing it should exist for is to protect life, liberty, and property. Otherwise fuck it.

Wait...isnt that what the liberals of today are NOT ? Pro-abortion, sorry, "Pro-Choice", foreign pushovers, and for redistribution?

Face it...todays liberals are nothing like the founding fathers.

I have no problem with moderate liberatarianism, but Obama leftists scare the shit outta me.

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Originally posted by Atmos Wait...isnt that what the liberals of today are NOT ? Pro-abortion, sorry, "Pro-Choice", foreign pushovers, and for redistribution? Face it...todays liberals are nothing like the founding fathers. I have no problem with moderate liberatarianism, but Obama leftists scare the shit outta me.

Pro-abortion? How about everyone minding their own business and let the woman do with her body what she wants. It's none of our business, let alone the government. Today's liberals are strongly anti-government, just like the Founding Fathers. It is liberals who are raising the flag to Bush administration curtailment of our freedoms, of rampant American militarism from radical nationalists, and opposition to engaging in endless foreign wars. All I see conservatives doing is trying to defend everything the government does, even when it is their rights which are being taken away. In Revolutionary times, it was the conservatives who wanted to remain loyal to the King of England.

As for foreign pushover? Liberals respect world opinion. If we don't have UN security council approval to engage in a war, then we should respect that. That's not being a pushover, that's respecting world opinion. Conservatives need to realize that America is less than 5% of the world population, but they behave like they are the only people that matter.

As for redistribution. What do you mean by this? Equal wages for all? I don't know one Democrat who advocates that. The difference between a liberal and a conservative on this issue is that conservatives accept inequality in society. Liberals don't. Conservatives have no problem spending $500 billion on war, but when it comes to educating the people, they simply don't care. Or health care? Conservatives simply accept people will not have health care. It is liberals who are working to get EVERYONE access to health care. Taxation is essentially redistribution, so unless you want to totally abolish all forms of taxes, you must realize that every single government which imposes a tax on its people are essentially redistributing wealth. I just believe that redistribution should be to give all people a chance at prosperity.

As for Obama leftists? After the last 7 years of horrid leadership by the president and Republican Party controlled Congress, Obama promises a drastic change of policy. This is exactly what I and millions of people want. So why not be enthusiastic for him? I can tell the Republicans are 1000% jealous of Obama. They wish McCain could get sold-out rallied all over America and around the world. But they don't, and so they bitch and complain about Obama's "celebrity"..

This is getting off topic but its good Obama is liked by many. I'm not scared about that. I just hate the fact that he has so many radical ties such as Michael Pfleger and Jeremiah Wright and that his speeches are filled with rhetorical techniques but have very little substance.

His father was a polygamist, he'd meet with Castro, Ortega, Chavez, and Ahmadinejad, and has even been called a great revolutionary individual by Castro and Ortega. He's a black Jimmy Carter, and his economical policies even look like Carter's.

I truly think that Krypton deep inside dosent like this country. I think is a disguise all his claims that he makes about how much he wants to save america and restore its image.

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