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-- Could the goverment have people on their payroll to post in forums like these?
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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN youre partly right. yes, i am indeed employed by a government agency. funny that you dont see me talking about anything related to them, like EVER.

Thats because you dont want to blow your cover ...

Booga Booga!



/ yea, I'm bored...

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Thats because you dont want to blow your cover ...

LOL, PKC is a pig. Watch out for your dough nuts.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut LOL, PKC is a pig. Watch out for your dough nuts.

ad no need to pay any heed to you .. your an idiot

PDD isn't exactly an activist group or John Lennon, so I seriously doubt it. Don't confuse the heavily indoctrinated posters who're intelligent enough to know better for agents, they're just propagating that which makes them feel comfortable with what they're used to... status quo. People don't want to rock the boat; that doesn't make them agents, just scared and insecure.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Don't confuse the heavily indoctrinated posters who're intelligent enough to know better for agents, they're just propagating that which makes them feel comfortable with what they're used to... status quo. People don't want to rock the boat; that doesn't make them agents, just scared and insecure.

so, what would be the difference between someone that just disagrees with the sentiments youre espousing and someone that is made to feel uncomfortable by the non status quo. and how would someone like your good self be able to tell the difference between the two?

or is anyone that disagrees with your extremist, utopian anarchism automatically someone that is too scared and insecure?

to my mind, its the people that are constantly paranoid about the big bad government that prove to be the scared and insecure ones.

Somehow you always feel obligated to respond to post that never mention your name, who's insecure now?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN so, what would be the difference between someone that just disagrees with the sentiments your espousing and someone that is made to feel uncomfortable by the non status quo. and how would someone like your good self be able to tell the difference between the two?

First of all, I'm not "good" by any means; I frankly don't like a lot about myself, which makes me a lot more secure that most people because I don't bullshit myself 24-7 about my own self worth. When you're in denial, you're insecure. When you're not in denial, you have hope, ironically.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN or is anyone that disagrees with your extremist, utopian anarchism automatically someone that is too scared and insecure?

No, there's plenty of people who're not anarchists and are also not consumed with fear or insecurity. Second, the Spanish Revolution is a real demonstration of what you call a utopian idea (Utopia == fiction).

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN to my mind, its the people that are constantly paranoid about the big bad government that prove to be the scared and insecure ones.

Exactly. People who fear the "big bad government" are the ones who advocate one of their own to protect them from another one. Anarchist are not paranoid and don't advocate a large coercive institution like the state, they are not scared and are secure.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Somehow you always feel obligated to respond to post that never mention your name, who's insecure now?

oh come on. i know im part of the

quote:

heavily indoctrinated posters who're intelligent enough to know better for agents, they're just propagating that which makes them feel comfortable with what they're used to... status quo"

according to you. dont be dishonest by denying thats how you see me (more or less). Its ok, I don�t particularly care.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z First of all, I'm not "good" by any means; I frankly don't like a lot about myself, which makes me a lot more secure that most people because I don't bullshit myself 24-7 about my own self worth. When you're in denial, you're insecure. When you're not in denial, you have hope, ironically.

well, i think youre good. as in a good person. bright, and you care a lot about things. i certainly dont think youre a bad person just coz we happen to disagree about just about everything.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z No, there's plenty of people who're not anarchists and are also not consumed with fear or insecurity.

so, i would be interested to see which posts/posters you believe are consumed by fear/insecurity, and how you can tell that in an argument concerning politics?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Second, the Spanish Revolution is a real demonstration of what you call a utopian idea (Utopia == fiction).

and how did it end? the same way bolshevism did. with the overthrow of the principle ideals by a fascist, and persecution of all enemies of the invigorated state. only to return to capitalism much later.

Re: Could the goverment have people on their payroll to post in forums like these?

quote:

Originally posted by apocu How probable is it that some posters here, and in other forums that discuss politics, be on the U.S. government payroll to try to influence a very narrow reality on the things happening around the world, and to rebuke any comment that dissents with the official government position.

Not probable at all. I mean, of all forums, why would they even bother with us? It's not even worth it, economically speaking.

And, unless I'm mistaken, I should be the one getting some money here

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium I wouldn't be surprised if PKC was working with some government agency of some country But then again - with his great political debating skills - wouldn't there be a better website/forum for him to do this on?

But it doesn't matter if they have no actual skill or insights of their own because for them it's simply about disrupting what would otherwise be rational discourse which often delves into topics that they don't want people talking about.

quote:

"And always, everywhere, there would be the yelling or quietly authoritative hypnotists; and in the train of the ruling suggestion givers, always everywhere, the tribes of buffoons and hucksters, the professional liars, the purveyors of entertaining irrelevances. Conditioned from the cradle, unceasingly distracted, mesmerized systematically, their uniformed victims would go on obediently marching and countermarching, go on, always and everywhere, killing and dying with the perfect docility of trained poodles." - Aldous Huxley

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X But it doesn't matter if they have no actual skill or insights of their own because for them it's simply about disrupting what would otherwise be rational discourse which often delves into topics that they don't want people talking about.

I consider intolerance of criticism more authoritarian than anything. I am glad PKC criticizes the shit out of you and colorut, otherwise, this forum would like a 1 party extremist libertarian dictatorship, with you two in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I consider intolerance of criticism more authoritarian than anything. I am glad PKC criticizes the shit out of you and colorut, otherwise, this forum would like a 1 party extremist libertarian dictatorship, with you two in charge.

First off, I'm my own greatest critic so you might as well drop whatever half-cocked assertion that I don't tolerate criticism because I deal with it every moment of every day. I've always been overly critical of myself and having been an introvert for most of my early years I learned to keep my mouth shut until I actually had some working knowledge of what I was talking about for fear of saying something stupid. You apparently have no such fear and make it a habit of spewing a bunch of bullshit at every turn and that's something that i really can't stand especially given the fact that you somehow consider yourself my peer. Sure we share this digital domain of a message board but that's about all that we share. I don't know you and I don't care to know you. You've been nothing but a mindless contrarian to me for quite some time now and I would be at all surprised if you weren't here just to piss me off because it seems like you work really hard to do it sometimes.

Secondly, I used to have you on ignore and really only took you off because no matter how many times I reiterated that fact to you and everyone else, you continued to reply to all of my posts anyow just like our other resident troll, your comrade, pkcRAISTLIN.

Anyway, I'm tired of your trolling so please get a clue.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X First off, I'm my own greatest critic so you might as well drop whatever half-cocked assertion that I don't tolerate criticism because I deal with it every moment of every day. I've always been overly critical of myself and having been an introvert for most of my early years I learned to keep my mouth shut until I actually had some working knowledge of what I was talking about for fear of saying something stupid. You apparently have no such fear and make it a habit of spewing a bunch of bullshit at every turn and that's something that i really can't stand especially given the fact that you somehow consider yourself my peer. Sure we share this digital domain of a message board but that's about all that we share. I don't know you and I don't care to know you. You've been nothing but a mindless contrarian to me for quite some time now and I would be at all surprised if you weren't here just to piss me off because it seems like you work really hard to do it sometimes. Secondly, I used to have you on ignore and really only took you off because no matter how many times I reiterated that fact to you and everyone else, you continued to reply to all of my posts anyow just like our other resident troll, your comrade, pkcRAISTLIN. Anyway, I'm tired of your trolling so please get a clue.

Thanks for proving my point...

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Thanks for proving my point...

You have no point.

You continue to argue from either ignorance or falsehood while misrepresenting points that I've made in your cheap attempts to defeat them and then when I ask you to watch certain videos or read certain articles you don't have the time or say that it's too much reading -- but at the same time are able to post character assassinations aimed at me and a few other long time forum members all the merry day long.

I'm tired of it so please stop talking to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X You have no point. You continue to argue from either ignorance or falsehood while misrepresenting points that I've made in your cheap attempts to defeat them and then when I ask you to watch certain videos or read certain articles you don't have the time or say that it's too much reading -- but at the same time are able to post character assassinations aimed at me and a few other long time forum members all the merry day long. I'm tired of it so please stop talking to me.

...take your fucking diaper off, grow some balls, and accept criticism when you see it you cry baby..

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X You have no point. You continue to argue from either ignorance or falsehood while misrepresenting points that I've made in your cheap attempts to defeat them and then when I ask you to watch certain videos or read certain articles you don't have the time or say that it's too much reading -- but at the same time are able to post character assassinations aimed at me and a few other long time forum members all the merry day long. I'm tired of it so please stop talking to me.

The people who generally respond, especially to "conspiracy" threads, are those who are driven; they're either driven by principle or out of fear. People who're insecure about their opinions or world view need constant validation, especially from an "authoritative" source. They also vehemently lash out against anyone who says anything contrary to it. Those who are driven by principle feel a need to raise awareness or draw attention to the truth of a matter. The irony though is, that both extremes ends of the spectrum here can make an individual obsessive and the likely hood of people taking one seriously decreases significantly, depending on the individual of course. The internet can be a great medium for communication and information, but it is also the most anonymous place one can be. Which means you'll run in to a lot of assholes inevitably, or people who at least turn in to ones depending on the subject or issue at hand. You can't reason with assholes or be civil. People generally don't act anywhere near as inconsiderate or uncivil in person, as they're not at a safe distance... which also means you can't beat the fuck out them either if they really cross the line and are disrespectful to you as person... which I have found to be the case, the more marginalized the perspective is or 'intellectually' unfashionable, which the truth usually is. The only way to deal with them is to ignore them; don't feed the trolls, and there's certainly no reason to let them effect your emotional state... you're only giving them power over you by doing so and they bring out the worst in you, in turn making you look bad for the shit slinging they started with their constant antagonistic nonsense. They'll give you all sorts of reasons, or excuses rather, defensively. They even believe their own excuses, disingenuity and dishonesty are natural consequences if one can't or refuses to deal with reality. Seriously dude, fuck em. There's no reason for you to ruin your day or waste your time with condescending and uncivil people who have no interest in actual discussion or debate. While I do think over the years you've posted some great information and things that seriously opened my eyes to certain issues, I think you should have learned by now that most people really don't give a fuck about anything other than their checkbook. Trust me, I learned the hard way... before I only touched issues I could definitively prove, usually regarding our foreign policy. As a minority, and a person growing up in multiple countries and cultures, I don't suffer from a nationalistic bias or it's milder much more civil form, patriotism. I could always see things from an outsiders perspective and they're plenty of inhumane, unjust, barbaric and morally bankrupt elements that dominants features of American foreign policy post WW2. I first though people's denial and / or apathy stemmed form the fact that they weren't directly affected by any of these atrocities or injustices. Only after 9-11, when I dared to touch things I knew I would have a hard time supporting leaving the framework of academia, is when I truly found out just how weak, selfish and / or pathetic so many people are and how denial of elementary truths are sort of one of the unspoken defining characteristics.

To sum up, you can't really do much. The problem isn't simply ignorance, or just plain ignorance and apathy. The neurosis is more severe than that. It's intense indoctrination and a comfort zone people are unwilling to leave. There's nothing you can do about that. You can't make someone care or eager to be informed. That's only a choice that can be made by individuals on a personal level. The sooner you realize this the less of your time you will waste, and the less negative reactions you'll get from people.

EDIT: And before someone takes this personally, keep in mind I mentioned no one in particular.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z The people who generally respond, especially to "conspiracy" threads, are those who are driven; they're either driven by principle or out of fear. People who're insecure about their opinions or world view need constant validation, especially from an "authoritative" source. They also vehemently lash out against anyone who says anything contrary to it. Those who are driven by principle feel a need to raise awareness or draw attention to the truth of a matter. The irony though is, that both extremes ends of the spectrum here can make an individual obsessive and the likely hood of people taking one seriously decreases significantly, depending on the individual of course. The internet can be a great medium for communication and information, but it is also the most anonymous place one can be. Which means you'll run in to a lot of assholes inevitably, or people who at least turn in to ones depending on the subject or issue at hand. You can't reason with assholes or be civil. People generally don't act anywhere near as inconsiderate or uncivil in person, as they're not at a safe distance... which also means you can't beat the fuck out them either if they really cross the line and are disrespectful to you as person... which I have found to be the case, the more marginalized the perspective is or 'intellectually' unfashionable, which the truth usually is. The only way to deal with them is to ignore them; don't feed the trolls, and there's certainly no reason to let them effect your emotional state... you're only giving them power over you by doing so and they bring out the worst in you, in turn making you look bad for the shit slinging they started with their constant antagonistic nonsense. They'll give you all sorts of reasons, or excuses rather, defensively. They even believe their own excuses, disingenuity and dishonesty are natural consequences if one can't or refuses to deal with reality. Seriously dude, fuck em. There's no reason for you to ruin your day or waste your time with condescending and uncivil people who have no interest in actual discussion or debate. While I do think over the years you've posted some great information and things that seriously opened my eyes to certain issues, I think you should have learned by now that most people really don't give a fuck about anything other than their checkbook. Trust me, I learned the hard way... before I only touched issues I could definitively prove, usually regarding our foreign policy. As a minority, and a person growing up in multiple countries and cultures, I don't suffer from a nationalistic bias or it's milder much more civil form, patriotism. I could always see things from an outsiders perspective and they're plenty of inhumane, unjust, barbaric and morally bankrupt elements that dominants features of American foreign policy post WW2. I first though people's denial and / or apathy stemmed form the fact that they weren't directly affected by any of these atrocities or injustices. Only after 9-11, when I dared to touch things I knew I would have a hard time supporting leaving the framework of academia, is when I truly found out just how weak, selfish and / or pathetic so many people are and how denial of elementary truths are sort of one of the unspoken defining characteristics. To sum up, you can't really do much. The problem isn't simply ignorance, or just plain ignorance and apathy. The neurosis is more severe than that. It's intense indoctrination and a comfort zone people are unwilling to leave. There's nothing you can do about that. You can't make someone care or eager to be informed. That's only a choice that can be made by individuals on a personal level. The sooner you realize this the less of your time you will waste, and the less negative reactions you'll get from people. EDIT: And before someone takes this personally, keep in mind I mentioned no one in particular.

Why can't we say the same thing of conspiracy advocates? Are we not allowed to criticize your points of view? Look at trancer's and colorut's reaction to criticism. They freak out! They can't stand it. They can't handle it. Just as an authoritarian can't stand criticism either. It's YOUR way, or the high way! I haven't seen ONE, ONE, ONE debate that was ON POINT, by either one of them. They simply plagiarize other people's work, use that as their argument, and woe and behold anyone who is skeptical of their articles (which they didn't write but yet use AS their argument)! If you criticize, you're just a blinded bot of the NWO!!! oo0o0o0o0o...scarrrrryyyy.......thus, how can a skeptic argue against an article? The author isn't here in the PDD to debate with us. So you 3 expect all of us to accept at face value everything you post, or else, we are part of the conspiracy, we're SHEEPLE!!! OH NOEEZZZZZZ!!!

You guys claim to be skeptics and all this stuff. Yet, we're not allowed to be skeptical of YOU. Only YOU are allowed to be skeptical...

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Why can't we say the same thing of conspiracy advocates? Are we not allowed to criticize your points of view? Look at trancer's and colorut's reaction to criticism. They freak out! They can't stand it. They can't handle it. Just as an authoritarian can't stand criticism either. It's YOUR way, or the high way! I haven't seen ONE, ONE, ONE debate that was ON POINT, by either one of them. They simply plagiarize other people's work, use that as their argument, and woe and behold anyone who is skeptical of their articles (which they didn't write but yet use AS their argument)! If you criticize, you're just a blinded bot of the NWO!!! oo0o0o0o0o...scarrrrryyyy.......thus, how can a skeptic argue against an article? The author isn't here in the PDD to debate with us. So you 3 expect all of us to accept at face value everything you post, or else, we are part of the conspiracy, we're SHEEPLE!!! OH NOEEZZZZZZ!!! You guys claim to be skeptics and all this stuff. Yet, we're not allowed to be skeptical of YOU. Only YOU are allowed to be skeptical...

I was here when Trancer used to post on a regular basis back in the day, and he had plenty of thoughts of his own to offer. Due to labeling and futility of vocalizing it, he made his posts minimal to articles / videos etc. Marginalizing people generally does that.

Well I work for an MEP but in my defence I was posting on here many years before that and I would only work for someone whose outlook was close to my own! (Plus that is not government!)

I know you mean well George. Just because I'm not fond of certain institutions (i.e. most of them ), doesn't mean I think everyone who is associated with one is inherently evil or something. There's well meaning people from all walks of life. I hope you didn't find my post personally offensive or anything .

Peace

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I know you mean well George. Just because I'm not fond of certain institutions (i.e. most of them ), doesn't mean I think everyone who is associated with one is inherently evil or something. There's well meaning people from all walks of life. I hope you didn't find my post personally offensive or anything . Peace

No! That post above wasn't a reply to yours but just in answer to the thread in general!!!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I was here when Trancer used to post on a regular basis back in the day, and he had plenty of thoughts of his own to offer. Due to labeling and futility of vocalizing it, he made his posts minimal to articles / videos etc. Marginalizing people generally does that.

So basically, you're telling me he pussied out? Boo fucking hoo. I've gotten into so many heated debates, I can't even count them all. I didn't resort to spamming articles and plagiarizing them to use as an argument.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z The people who generally respond, especially to "conspiracy" threads, are those who are driven; they're either driven by principle or out of fear. People who're insecure about their opinions or world view need constant validation, especially from an "authoritative" source. They also vehemently lash out against anyone who says anything contrary to it. Those who are driven by principle feel a need to raise awareness or draw attention to the truth of a matter. The irony though is, that both extremes ends of the spectrum here can make an individual obsessive and the likely hood of people taking one seriously decreases significantly, depending on the individual of course. The internet can be a great medium for communication and information, but it is also the most anonymous place one can be. Which means you'll run in to a lot of assholes inevitably, or people who at least turn in to ones depending on the subject or issue at hand. You can't reason with assholes or be civil. People generally don't act anywhere near as inconsiderate or uncivil in person, as they're not at a safe distance... which also means you can't beat the fuck out them either if they really cross the line and are disrespectful to you as person... which I have found to be the case, the more marginalized the perspective is or 'intellectually' unfashionable, which the truth usually is. The only way to deal with them is to ignore them; don't feed the trolls, and there's certainly no reason to let them effect your emotional state... you're only giving them power over you by doing so and they bring out the worst in you, in turn making you look bad for the shit slinging they started with their constant antagonistic nonsense. They'll give you all sorts of reasons, or excuses rather, defensively. They even believe their own excuses, disingenuity and dishonesty are natural consequences if one can't or refuses to deal with reality. Seriously dude, fuck em. There's no reason for you to ruin your day or waste your time with condescending and uncivil people who have no interest in actual discussion or debate. While I do think over the years you've posted some great information and things that seriously opened my eyes to certain issues, I think you should have learned by now that most people really don't give a fuck about anything other than their checkbook. Trust me, I learned the hard way... before I only touched issues I could definitively prove, usually regarding our foreign policy. As a minority, and a person growing up in multiple countries and cultures, I don't suffer from a nationalistic bias or it's milder much more civil form, patriotism. I could always see things from an outsiders perspective and they're plenty of inhumane, unjust, barbaric and morally bankrupt elements that dominants features of American foreign policy post WW2. I first though people's denial and / or apathy stemmed form the fact that they weren't directly affected by any of these atrocities or injustices. Only after 9-11, when I dared to touch things I knew I would have a hard time supporting leaving the framework of academia, is when I truly found out just how weak, selfish and / or pathetic so many people are and how denial of elementary truths are sort of one of the unspoken defining characteristics. To sum up, you can't really do much. The problem isn't simply ignorance, or just plain ignorance and apathy. The neurosis is more severe than that. It's intense indoctrination and a comfort zone people are unwilling to leave. There's nothing you can do about that. You can't make someone care or eager to be informed. That's only a choice that can be made by individuals on a personal level. The sooner you realize this the less of your time you will waste, and the less negative reactions you'll get from people. EDIT: And before someone takes this personally, keep in mind I mentioned no one in particular.

you could've saved yourself a lot of time if you'd just said 'trancer, people don't like arrogant liars that only ever post long-winded opinion pieces from other people and never ever broach a subject themselves'. its that simple.

I just think that it's funny that I actually have an entire gaggle of trolls whose pathetic little lives have come to revolve around their constantly following me from post to post in the attempt to discredit me in the hopes of discouraging others from listening to what I've been saying.

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