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-- Is religion beneficial?
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quote:

Originally posted by Lomeli I am not religious but extremely spiritual. Until you have experienced what I have you will have absolutely no understanding of what life really is.

So everyone but you is just an unenlightened moron?

I don't mind religion because it teaches good values, but "spirituality" is just rubbish.

While religion may be for people who have trouble dealing with death or bad events, in my experience so called "spirituality" is for people who are so hopeless that they can't even handle day to day life and constantly need to keep meditating, aligning their chakras or whatever the fuck you people do, rather than just getting on with life and facing reality.

However,

STOP HIJACKING THE THREAD.

The original question at hand concerns the overall well being of humanity in regards to religion, not everyone's individual preferences and beliefs.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog So everyone but you is just an unenlightened moron? I don't mind religion because it teaches good values, but "spirituality" is just rubbish. While religion may be for people who have trouble dealing with death or bad events, in my experience so called "spirituality" is for people who are so hopeless that they can't even handle day to day life and constantly need to keep meditating, aligning their chakras or whatever the fuck you people do, rather than just getting on with life and facing reality.

I don't understand your reference to 'you people' in regards to spirituality (in the sense of practicing spiritual beliefs independent of a religious tradition) in that rather antagonistic post of yours

People who would describe themselves as 'spiritual, but not religious' retain core beliefs and practices that can vary wildly from person to person, so there most certainly is no 'you people' in that regard.

Besides, a good number of the spiritual practices that people adopt can often be similar to (meditation isn't exactly something exclusive to 'spiritual' people), or perhaps the exact same practice, as is found in a certain religious tradition, in which case they derive from these religions certain practices that they find relevant and meaningful to their own lives (this has become known as the 'cafeteria' approach to spirituality, and also has its critics).

You may be basing whatever broad categorization you're making upon 'New Agers,' which is a type of spiritual person, but even then, there may be enough variance in different New Age beliefs to make a broad references like that inappropriate.

spacechica is a fucking moron.

anyone that talks about "spirituality" is also fucking dense. "ooh, spirituality which cannot be measured in any sense of the word is just a copout for anything more tangible but i'll believe it anyway coz im a dickhead".

believe what you wanna believe but my belief is that you're a turd sandwich.

who's a "turd sandwich?" you'd better not be talking to me

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN spacechica is a fucking moron. anyone that talks about "spirituality" is also fucking dense. "ooh, spirituality which cannot be measured in any sense of the word is just a copout for anything more tangible but i'll believe it anyway coz im a dickhead". believe what you wanna believe but my belief is that you're a turd sandwich.

Re: Is religion beneficial?

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog The other thread about terrorism and extremism within religion has left me wondering whether religion has been beneficial for humanity in the long run. Personally, I�ve considered myself Athiest since probably age 14 or 15, despite being baptized and bought up in a fairly religious environment. As much as this will offend some people on this board, I see belief in a higher, benevolent, omnipresent being as a sign of weakness; an unwillingness to accept that there are things out of our control, disasters that happen for no reason, and that death really and truly is �the end�. I see myself as a pragmatist, ready to accept life for what it is, rather than believing in some �greater plan� or greater good. This confuses me somewhat because I know that some of the greatest analytical and practical minds of all time, some of the best scientists, have also been some of the most devoutly religious people, and who am I to refute the viewpoints of such geniuses? However, I digress. Throughout history, a great number of conflicts have occurred simply because of a difference in religion. Sometimes marauding invaders have actually adopted the religions of the people they were conquering, or vice versa, but religion, even with the best of intentions, preaching peace, love and all the accoutrements, has bought about a substantial amount of suffering to all mankind. It has bred such horrific things such as the holocaust and the crusades, as well as persecution and the concept of martyrdom. In the past people have died because their religion tells them that to fight is wrong. In return for such atrocities, religion has given us charity programs in other countries, community counseling and support, schools, hospitals and an enourmous amount of other projects that contribute positively to the world. So, the question is thus: would humanity be better or worse off if religion had never been established? Would the world be a better place for lack of wars and differences between people? Would humanity have flourished more in the Middle Ages had they spent their time inventing things and building houses rather than constructing cathedrals and mosques and paying heavy taxes to their church?

Religion caused The Holocaust? That's a bit rich.

quote:

Originally posted by spacechica who's a "turd sandwich?" you'd better not be talking to me

no, i think i clearly stated that you were a fucking moron.

quote:

Originally posted by spacechica if religion had never been established is an iffy assumption because who knows if you could prevent history from being recorded? if Jesus really existed, then wouldn't His teachings have been copied and passed down?

WTF

Re: Re: Is religion beneficial?

quote:

Originally posted by eckmek Religion caused The Holocaust? That's a bit rich.

Okay, so perhaps the Holocaust was more racially motivated than faith motivated, but that's just one example.

There are plenty of other examples throughout nearly all parts of history when differences in beliefs caused war, persecution or invasion.

Please try to stay on topic rather than nitpicking at small parts of my original post which are incorrect.

What can I say about Religion , Well I was Christened at birth because its family tradition but im not getting married in a Church as I dont practice the faith of Christianity. I have often thought about praying and going to church etc but to be honest I dont think I want to believe in something I cannot understand.

I know 9/11 is a tough subject to discuss but all those people didn't deserve to loose there life's. The terrorist who did it thought they were serving Allah and were very religious if religion can make people do acts like that then I dont want to be part of one.

peace out.

quote:

Originally posted by kadomony For instance, when Jesus (if we're assuming he existed) spoke about God, he was not speaking about a single omnipotent being but the Being that is inherent in everything when you take away labels and forms and accept things for what they truly are.

Thats not how you spell impotent, silly.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog So everyone but you is just an unenlightened moron?

Moron maybe.

Serious amount of atheist snobbery detected in said post.

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Serious amount of atheist snobbery detected in said post.

bollocks. learn to read.

All sheep need their shepherds.

Religion is bullshit, it holds back evolution, it holds back little pigglets & anal rapes them, it is the stupid of all the stupidness of the earth, the definitive of stupid, the massive errectus stupidness enormii. Back 2000 years ago, they couldn't explain why the wind, so they praid to the tree gods & then god farted & thy anuses erruptus with great vengence & flooded the lands with female period blood & mucus. And the dwarves were happy again.

Re: Re: Re: Is religion beneficial?

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog Okay, so perhaps the Holocaust was more racially motivated than faith motivated, but that's just one example. There are plenty of other examples throughout nearly all parts of history when differences in beliefs caused war, persecution or invasion. Please try to stay on topic rather than nitpicking at small parts of my original post which are incorrect.

I thought i was statying on topic. I'll elaborate: Most of the things you attribute to religion i think could be attributed to other things, or at least a combination of religious beliefs and other things. Holocaust was just an example. I just think you're being a bit one-sided in all of this, no need to get all defensive.

You kids just keep having fun with this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT You kids just keep having fun with this thread.

Actually, I'm quite optimistic that we'll all be able to attain a point of mutual understanding, if not the persuasion of one side to the other.

These threads invariably turn out that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Paradox Lost Actually, I'm quite optimistic that we'll all be able to attain a point of mutual understanding, if not the persuasion of one side to the other. These threads invariably turn out that way.

No, they don't.

This happens once every few weeks - similar players, same story, every time.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT No, they don't.

...yes...I know. That was...the joke (I knew I should have used some smillies),

Oh well, that minor misunderstanding aside, I was alluding more to this general type of discussion anyway, as opposed to the specific ones that pop up around here.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Is religion beneficial?

quote:

Originally posted by eckmek I thought i was statying on topic. I'll elaborate: Most of the things you attribute to religion i think could be attributed to other things, or at least a combination of religious beliefs and other things. Holocaust was just an example. I just think you're being a bit one-sided in all of this, no need to get all defensive.

Point taken.

I'm not really being one-sided though. I'm seriously unable to make up my mind as to whether religion is good or not in the long run.

I see all the good that religion has done...but then I also see the bad, and I can't decide which outweighs the other.

Hence asking for opinions.

I haven't really received any yet - I'm asking that we discuss "the big picture" and people are getting all parochial on me.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN bollocks. learn to read.

Well considering the person I'm quoting.

here's my 2 cents:

Can religion lead to good? Sure... people go on mission trips or whatver all the time and volunteer to help people all over these 3rd world countries when they don't have to because they believe in the service and that it's the right thing to do.

On the other hand, they could do the same thing without believing in some silly fairytale... to me they are just gulliable as to the reasons for doing it, but they still do good things for people nonetheless.

My personal take is that religion does more harm than good, and that it suppresses independant thought and the advancement of science. I feel sorry for people who believe so strongly in something there's not even the tiniest shread of evidence for, because they happened to be born at this point in history in the region they were born in... and because their parents/family "told" them that's what they need to believe at such a young age. I hate seeing churches pop up on every street corner... to me they are all just businesses competing for your cash in one way or another. To paraphrase Richard Dawkins, each religious generation looks back at the previous one and laughingly dismisses their perspectives on religion... (the sun as a god, zeus and greek mythology, Thor, and so on....) it will be no different in 100 years when people look at how people today view religion and scoff at it.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss here's my 2 cents: Can religion lead to good? Sure... people go on mission trips or whatver all the time and volunteer to help people all over these 3rd world countries when they don't have to because they believe in the service and that it's the right thing to do. On the other hand, they could do the same thing without believing in some silly fairytale... to me they are just gulliable as to the reasons for doing it, but they still do good things for people nonetheless. My personal take is that religion does more harm than good, and that it suppresses independant thought and the advancement of science. I feel sorry for people who believe so strongly in something there's not even the tiniest shread of evidence for, because they happened to be born at this point in history in the region they were born in... and because their parents/family "told" them that's what they need to believe at such a young age. I hate seeing churches pop up on every street corner... to me they are all just businesses competing for your cash in one way or another. To paraphrase Richard Dawkins, each religious generation looks back at the previous one and laughingly dismisses their perspectives on religion... (the sun as a god, zeus and greek mythology, Thor, and so on....) it will be no different in 100 years when people look at how people today view religion and scoff at it.

Great answer!

I had forgotten that religion has purposely resisted science at times (i.e Galileo).

As for your final comments - I've often wondered whether religion will even exist in 100 years. It appears to me that each generation is seemingly less pious than the previous...

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog As for your final comments - I've often wondered whether religion will even exist in 100 years. It appears to me that each generation is seemingly less pious than the previous...

America?

...fuck?

...yeah?

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