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-- studio monitors in the ~$500/pair range
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OK, that reason I ask is that I'm trying to decide if I want to go ahead and drop the coin on the Focal Twins now or wait until I have enough to upgrade my audio interface as well. When I did my testing, the units were connected to an Lynx Aurora. Several people I have spoken with who regularly deal with high end audio were telling me that if I hook them up to the MOTU 24 I/O I have now, all the flaws with the DAC's in that unit are going to be brought out loud and clear. DId you notice that phenomenon when you upgraded to your units?

I can't say I have.. But my room was never of THAT quality I'd think, to be able to tell. But quite honestly, without having much (if any) experience with many different speakers, DACs etc, I must say that I'd think the difference in (perceivable) sound quality is minimal - going above the standards of your motu or my konnekt.
My ears may not be as good as your, but I can certainly not "hear" anything bad. That may be because the konnekt is the best DAC I've had. If there is a difference between the konnekt, and for example the lynx I wouldn't know. I think sometimes people "hear" things, when there isn't really much to hear. I'm not saying there is no difference at all, but the perceivable quality difference can't be THAT big?

Ugh.. I hope this rambling makes sence

No, that's cool, it makes perfect sense.

Couple of other questions for you:

1. How big is your room? I only have an 11 x 12 room, so I'm a bit concerned that the monitors may be too much for the size of my room.

2. DO you have them on stands? If so, what kind of stands did you pick up? I'm trying to determine what kind of stands are going to be stable for these things since they are landscape oriented and need to be placed farther apart then my Mackies are now.

Eric, If I were you I would get a better converter first and a then replace the Mackies with something a bit cheaper than Twin6s, like the BM15A or even the BM6A. With the money you save you can get a Fireface 800 and I think you would be more happy overall.

My old room was way narrower than that, and I had no problem. The room was deeper though, but that doesn't matter I'd think.
As long as you can make a perfect triangle between your head (as you know), and the two tweeters, I'd think you'd be ok! Some people even have them standing vertically, as they are designed to do, if necessary.
I made my own stands actually, but I'm going to buy some better stands soon. I have no idea what stands to honestly.

In my opinion: way better monitor quality way surpass the need of slighttttly better DAC quality.

PS: the solo 6 is also a very nice unit, about the same price as the dynaudios, with truer low end

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Originally posted by spolitta Eric, If I were you I would get a better converter first and a then replace the Mackies with something a bit cheaper than Twin6s, like the BM15A or even the BM6A. With the money you save you can get a Fireface 800 and I think you would be more happy overall.

See the only reason I stayed away from the Fireface was because I wanted to go with a PCI based system. I have heard great things from Fireface owners, so I know it is a quality interface. The general consensus I have researched is that the PCI based interfaces are better performing overall than the Firewire interfaces. The interface I was considering was the Lynx Aurora 8, which is PCI-based and allows 8 channels of analog along with 8 channels of digital connected via AES/EBU.

Bear in mind that most of my research is coming from people who seem to operate fairly high end studios, so I'm inclined to trust them a bit more simply because I see them work in environments outside the traditional EDM sphere. This may be misplaced trust, however, as I'm not sure if maybe what they are suggesting may be a bit too much for an EDM producer and maybe they do not fully understand my needs. Understand that I have recently decided to go completely in the box for sound generation, so my main concern here is straight DAC, from the audio interface to the monitors and that's all. The ADC is not as important as all the sound is generated in-the-box. This is why I'm sinking the proceeds from gear sales into the best quality audio interface and monitors that I think will suit my needs. Translation and clarity are the name of the game here, I need the most accurate monitoring that I can get so I can trust that what comes out of the monitors at home translates well on other systems.

So bearing all that in mind, what you are suggesting is that if I can only get either the audio interface or new monitors, that you think it would be smarter to pick up the better interface first, and then go for the better monitors? I'm not disputing this, but can you explain to me why you think I would be happier with a BM15A/Fireface combo versus a Focal Twin 6/Lynx Aurora combo?

Eric, Fireface 800 was just an example of a better converter and a better clock than your current one the Motu. If your budget allows you to upgrade your Motu and still get the twin6 go ahead for it. The point I was trying to make was if your budget is around $3000 to improve your studio, spend 2k on monitors and the rest on a better converter. Now about Lynx, I don't have any first hand experience with them, neither with the apogee stuff, but they are on same league as RME. You are right about PCI based interfaces being more stable than firewire in general, although I haven't had any problems with Motu 828mkII or the Fireface 800 which are both FW, but you still have a point there. As for monitors I'd go for the 3 way design over BM15A, first time I heard the S3As I knew I wanted them but since they are out of budget when the time comes I'll audition P33A and the Twin6 be, but I still like to keep my HR824s because I exactly know how EDM should sound on them so they will be a great set of reference monitors for me to keep.

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Originally posted by spolitta Eric, Fireface 800 was just an example of a better converter and a better clock than your current one the Motu. If your budget allows you to upgrade your Motu and still get the twin6 go ahead for it. The point I was trying to make was if your budget is around $3000 to improve your studio, spend 2k on monitors and the rest on a better converter.

OK, good that makes sense and I definitely see you point. I've got the budget to upgrade both, but not necessarily at the same time. It all depends on how I want to work it. I am trying to debate internally if I should wait until I get enough cash to order both the monitors and the audio interface at the same time or go ahead and get one of them now and the other in a month or two when I have the cash for it. See it's kind of a Catch-22. If I get the monitors now, they might not sound as good with my MOTU, but if I get the audio interface now, it might not sound as good with the HR824's. Decisions, decisions....

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Originally posted by spolitta Now about Lynx, I don't have any first hand experience with them, neither with the apogee stuff, but they are on same league as RME. You are right about PCI based interfaces being more stable than firewire in general, although I haven't had any problems with Motu 828mkII or the Fireface 800 which are both FW, but you still have a point there.

See that was one of the things that intrigued me about the Aurora. I'm hesitant about going from a stable PCI interface to a potentially unstable Firewire based one. I just feel better about the PCI based solutions because there are fewer variables. IN addition, the Aurora has incredible expansion capability, which is something that the Firewire interfaces in that range do not have. You can even use it as an I/O for Pro Tools with the addition of a LT-HD card, so that option is open to me should I decide to go that route in the future.

I was going to go with an Apogee Ensemble, but more than one person who has experience with both Apogee and Lynx stuff explained to me that the converters on the Lynx were a whole lot more transparent (even than that AD/DA 16X), both AD and DA. Those same people talked to me about how Apogee pushes the "Apogee sound", which translates to a small bump in the 200-400Hz range. I don't want "bumps" in my AD/DA conversion, I want flat and apparently the Lynx products are right up there with some of the Prism stuff, according to those who I have spoken to.

Anyway, since I can't really afford to test them all out for myself, I'm forced to go with the advice of people who know more than I do and who have experience with all these products. I suspect many people are in this boat.

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Originally posted by spolitta As for monitors I'd go for the 3 way design over BM15A, first time I heard the S3As I knew I wanted them but since they are out of budget when the time comes I'll audition P33A and the Twin6 be, but I still like to keep my HR824s because I exactly know how EDM should sound on them so they will be a great set of reference monitors for me to keep.

I was debating on whether or not to keep my HR824's for the exact same reason. While they may not be as transparent or detailed as something like the P33A's or Focal Twins, they are a good choice for mixing club music as you stated. IMO, its always good to have extra sets of monitors around to check your mix. Hell, that's why I have a cheap pair of computers speakers in there as well, just to test mixes on consumer grade speakers, which is where many people will hear your music.

I may end up keeping the HR824's for this purpose, although the Mackies always seem to get lambasted by those outside the EDM circle.

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Originally posted by Eric J If I get the monitors now, they might not sound as good with my MOTU, but if I get the audio interface now, it might not sound as good with the HR824's. Decisions, decisions....

Buy them now, and use the time to "burn" them in.. They probably won't sound like the bomb the first hours of use. I don't know how long it took before them started to open up, but they gradually sounded better and better.
I just refuse to believe that your motu will make them sound bad, honestly. But anyway, you'll have your monitors worn in when you get your new interface. Win - win situation.

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Originally posted by Eric J If I get the monitors now, they might not sound as good with my MOTU, but if I get the audio interface now, it might not sound as good with the HR824's. Decisions, decisions....

I also had to choose between the two except that I knew I wasn't going to be able to buy the second item for another year but still went for the fireface and decided to wait for new monitors. My synths are mostly outboard so that alone made the decision much easier to make for me.

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Originally posted by Eric J Anyway, since I can't really afford to test them all out for myself, I'm forced to go with the advice of people who know more than I do and who have experience with all these products. I suspect many people are in this boat.

Converters are less matter of preferences compared to monitors so I'd have no problem taking other people's advice in the know. Coming from MOTU you can't go wrong with any of those in your list.

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Originally posted by Eric J I may end up keeping the HR824's for this purpose, although the Mackies always seem to get lambasted by those outside the EDM circle.

I'd say at least keep them until you become more fimilar with the twins.

OK, I think I m going to go ahead and pick up the Focal Twins as soon as the cash for those becomes available, then get the audio interface a few weeks later. I have heard others concur with Beyer that you need to give these monitors time to "burn in" before they start to sound the way they are supposed to. One guy mentioned that he got his and left them running with full spectrum music for like 12 hours straight to burn them in, so that sounds like a good approach to take.

Thanks for all the advice guys, its always good to get tips from people who not only own the product, but are satisfied with the results.

Hey Eric, I just want to check you're not going over the top here.

I know well, if anyone on these boards is into sonic quality, its you, but you really are getting in to diminishing returns here. You could spend several grand and only get a small return.

The 2408 has good converters, even in relation to a lot of other interfaces and even though not quite as good as RME or Lynx, they do hold up as good quality DAC that many pro studios use.

At the studios I work at we either use RME Fireface 800's for firewire interfaces or fully expanded PTHD rigs.

Don't go down the aftermarket interface route for use PTHD. We tried it, with SSL and Apogee and there are many pitfalls, such as DD won't even entertain tech support issues with you (and we spend A LOT with them), and the interfaces always have some kind of compatibility issue (which they will point you to DD tech support for) , either with clocking, updates, etc. They really are in my experience, not worth it. I think PTHD is not great value for the quality in relation to how much they cost but they are designed to work fluidly as a system and it does work, especially when you need serious I/O.

I hate to say it but you either have to decide to go completely PTHD or not at all, not a semi system. It really isn't worth it. I know I state this from a position of a commercial studio, where we simply cannot have downtime, and minor system glitches are a big deal, but even for a situation of a project studio where it's just your time, you really have to know about the problems and decide if you want to spend a lot of production time dealing with them. I also wouldn't want to go down the route of PTHD right now as DD/avid are getting close to the end the product life cycle - historically they have done a major system/protocol change every 7/8 years and now HD is about to be 8.

The Lynx converters are wicked though. I've heard them and they really do sound great and I couldn't hear any colouration. In fact it freaked me out a little because I couldn't quite hear any spikes or scoops across the spectrum and thought I started to hear faults in the speakers (Custom Quested 2108, PMC MB2S, B&W 802).

the thing is, at this level you start to get in serious audio considerations. What cables are you using? What stands? How is the room treated and was the room designed for this?

I'm not saying don't strive for the best speaker and DAC combo, but I can't help thinking that at this fine level of quality, things like the material of your producing chair come in to signifigance.

I think the mackies are great but they have their faults. However they are the EDM standard, and if you know their faults then you can compensate for it. I would say, get the interface and see if you notice a massive difference. The reason: because if you get different speakers, A: they will sound very different even if they are flat so you won't be able to tell if you've made a wise choice with the interface. B: becuase speakers won't sound right until you burn them in, whereas the interface should be right straight out of the box.
You know the mackies by now so you can trust them.

just my 2c

Thanks for the reply, I completely see what you are saying here and I agree with a lot of it.

Having said that, let me offer to clear a few things up.

This is going to be a LONG post....

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Hey Eric, I just want to check you're not going over the top here. I know well, if anyone on these boards is into sonic quality, its you, but you really are getting in to diminishing returns here. You could spend several grand and only get a small return. The 2408 has good converters, even in relation to a lot of other interfaces and even though not quite as good as RME or Lynx, they do hold up as good quality DAC that many pro studios use. At the studios I work at we either use RME Fireface 800's for firewire interfaces or fully expanded PTHD rigs.

Well, the thing is this: I've been selling of a bunch of mid-level hardware that I basically never used. In the past 4 months, I've sold at least $2,000 worth of hardware with another $3,500 up for sale now. What I'm trying to accomplish here is the best value for my money. Going the software route for sound generation has not been a problem for me as I have been able to get the sounds I wanted out of all my software. The quality of hardware vs. software has been discussed ad nauseum on this form and many others, but for me, good quality software instruments and effects have served me well. This is not to say that I won't consider adding hardware to my studio again in the future, but for now, I have decided that it is better to sink my cash into the 3 most important parts of a studio: Computers, Audio Interface and Monitors. The computer is already taken care of, so now its is time to move on to the other two items.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Don't go down the aftermarket interface route for use PTHD. We tried it, with SSL and Apogee and there are many pitfalls, such as DD won't even entertain tech support issues with you (and we spend A LOT with them), and the interfaces always have some kind of compatibility issue (which they will point you to DD tech support for) , either with clocking, updates, etc. They really are in my experience, not worth it. I think PTHD is not great value for the quality in relation to how much they cost but they are designed to work fluidly as a system and it does work, especially when you need serious I/O. I hate to say it but you either have to decide to go completely PTHD or not at all, not a semi system. It really isn't worth it. I know I state this from a position of a commercial studio, where we simply cannot have downtime, and minor system glitches are a big deal, but even for a situation of a project studio where it's just your time, you really have to know about the problems and decide if you want to spend a lot of production time dealing with them. I also wouldn't want to go down the route of PTHD right now as DD/avid are getting close to the end the product life cycle - historically they have done a major system/protocol change every 7/8 years and now HD is about to be 8.

Totally see your point here and it is a good one. I may have misrepresented my intentions in an earlier post. Moving to PTHD is not really a huge primary objective for me at this point. Because of the decision to move to an all software environment, I wanted to explore the possibility of adding TDM plugins to my setup, which was the #1 consideration for adding Pro Tools gear to my existing setup. The fact that I use Logic only makes things easier as Logic has built in support for DAE and TDM plugins.

However, when asking a few questions on another forum about this possibility, several users strongly cautioned me against doing this type of setup simply because it did not appear to have a huge risk versus reward factor. Keep in mind these were mostly PTHD users themselves, so I kind of trusted what they were telling me. The general consensus was: Unless I'm planning on moving to PTHD as my primary DAW and willing to spend a boatload of cash on the investment it takes to get there, then it would be better to invest in improvements to my audio interface and monitors (and room).

Most of them agreed that my current setup of Logic Pro, with Native Plugins perfectly suited the needs of a composer, which is basically what we all are. If I was going a lot of tracking, live recording or exchanging files with other studios on a PTHD system, then PTHD might be a good investment. However, none of these things are true for me, so most of the people I talked to pointed out ,that, from a composers perspective, the setup I had was a better value.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN The Lynx converters are wicked though. I've heard them and they really do sound great and I couldn't hear any colouration. In fact it freaked me out a little because I couldn't quite hear any spikes or scoops across the spectrum and thought I started to hear faults in the speakers (Custom Quested 2108, PMC MB2S, B&W 802).

This is one of the reasons I trust the advice I am being given to go for the Aurora. I was given several concrete reasons why the Aurora products would best serve my needs from an I/O as well as a qualiy standpoint. As I stated earlier in this thread, I have to be able to trust the advice of people who have used most of the gear in this range, since I cannot afford to try it all out myself.

I could stick with MOTU interface, but if I am going to be investing a good chunk of my studio budget into just a few quality items, I figure its smarter to go with the highest quality stuff I can afford. It lasts longer and there is no question that I have risen above the level of "prosumer" with gear in this price range. I'm a huge believer in "you get what you pay for", and most of the time a $3,000 interface is going to sound better than a $1,500 one.

I want to be able to trust my gear from a performance standpoint as well as from a quality standpoint. The last thing I want to do is always be questioning what my stuff will sound like on the radio, in a car stereo or on a big club system. I need to know that its going to translate well and the first step to that is making sure the gear I am using is not sub-standard in any way. Its the old argument that "If you can't hear what is wrong, then how can you fix it?"

The Aurora stuff was recommended to me over the Apogee, RME and even some of the Prism stuff simply because of the reasons you stated: No colouration whatsoever and it outputs exactly what you put in it. No more, no less. The clock on this this is supposedly so good that you don't even really need any type of external clock whatsoever. The fact that it has the ability to act as I/O for PTHD is just a bonus. I may never use it, but it is nice to know it is there.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN the thing is, at this level you start to get in serious audio considerations. What cables are you using? What stands? How is the room treated and was the room designed for this?

Cables:
I am using Mogami Gold cables currently, so I feel pretty confident about those (and they weren't cheap).

Stands: I was recommended some monitor stands for the Focal Twins from a company called Sound Anchors in Florida. At first I wasn't too impressed because the website looks like garbage, but then I looked at who made the recommendation and wouldnt you know it, but a guy from Focal Professional, the manufacturer of the exact monitors I'm purchasing. For me, that is a source I can trust.

The one thing I am lacking at the moment is proper room treatment. Unfortunately, I'm probably always going to be stuck with a sub-standard room configuration. This is just a fact I'll have to live with, but my plan is to do everything I can, within reason, to make the best listening environment possible. This is kind of a sticky situation for me at the moment, because I'm fixing to get married in like a month, and were going to be moving to a new house right around the first of the year. I explained this to one of the guys I have been working with and he gave me some good tips on how to setup some cheap, temporary treatment in the room I have now. It won't be perfect, but it will do the job temporarily. After I get into my new space and figure out my requirements, then he and I are going to work on something a bit more permanent.

After I get the monitors and audio interface, my next #1 priority is going to be properly treating the new room. I have heard the difference that room treatment can make, so I'm planning on investing some money in good treatment products, based on the game plan we come up with.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I'm not saying don't strive for the best speaker and DAC combo, but I can't help thinking that at this fine level of quality, things like the material of your producing chair come in to signifigance.

Absolutely correct, this is one of the things we will be working out with acoustitician.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I think the mackies are great but they have their faults. However they are the EDM standard, and if you know their faults then you can compensate for it. I would say, get the interface and see if you notice a massive difference. The reason: because if you get different speakers, A: they will sound very different even if they are flat so you won't be able to tell if you've made a wise choice with the interface. B: becuase speakers won't sound right until you burn them in, whereas the interface should be right straight out of the box. You know the mackies by now so you can trust them. just my 2c

Well, I'm actually planning on keeping both sets of monitors for exactly this reason. I know that the Mackies are a good set of reference monitors, I know them well and I want to have more than one set of monitors to test my mixes on. They sound good for me on the top and bottom, its just the mids where I have a problem with them. Even on mixed CD's and tracks from artists whos' music I know well I can hear how scooped the mids are on the HR824's. I remember noticing it when I first got them, but you work with what you have. I know that one of the problems I have with translation of my music is that I can't ever seem to get the mid range exactly how I want it, especially with any type of "busy" EDM, like trance.

To me, its no coincidence that I spend so much time to properly mix the mids in my music, because I can't HEAR them properly on the Mackies. I usually have very few problems with the low and high ends. In addition, I have mixed music at other peoples studios (with proper room treatment and different monitors), and it's not nearly as big a problem in their environments as it is in my own. Some of this is probably sue to the room, but I believe that taking a step up in quality on my monitors is going to make a huge difference. I have even seem threads from other users who have upgrades from HR824's to the Focal Twins with similar results.

My game plan is basically, composition and mixdown on the Focal Twins, then testing and tweaking on the Mackies. I do not expect the Mackies to play any larger role than a simple A/B reference monitor.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I have put a lot of thought into this and feel fairly confident this is the right way to go based n my needs. However, I encourage you to feel free to disagree with any of what I have said and I always appreciate and try to listen to advice from others who know what they are talking about (which you obviously do).

OK, just got and set up the new Focal Twin 6's and all I have two words:


HOLY COW!!!!


The detail on these things is a major step up from my HR824's. I need some time to break them in, but even in the first few minutes I am seriously impressed. Even MP3's sound good on them, and they are PLEASANT! Not harsh, brittle or scooped at all! They make music sound like it is supposed to sound. Wide, full, not boosted or enhanced in any way. It reminds me of how music sounds when you are, lets say, "in a state", but you're actually stone cold sober.

I'll post more once I have had a chance to use them for a bit.

I have yet to buy a pair of quality monitors. Reading this whole thread has made me get the urge to purchase a pair of good monitors. I was leaning towards the Mackie Hr824 MKII's but you say the Focals are great what pair of monitors should I really invest my money towards thank you so much!

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Originally posted by snatonsb I have yet to buy a pair of quality monitors. Reading this whole thread has made me get the urge to purchase a pair of good monitors. I was leaning towards the Mackie Hr824 MKII's but you say the Focals are great what pair of monitors should I really invest my money towards thank you so much!

Well if you can afford the Focal Twins, I personally recommend them based on my short time with them. The problem is that there is a huge price difference between the Mackie's and the Focal Twins. I mean your talking about $1,300 a pair for the Mackies versus $3,000 a pair for the Focals. If you can afford them, then its definitely worth the upgrade.

That being said, don't forget about your audio interface. Make sure you have at least a decent mid-level audio interface, and if not, you should also consider investing a decent amount of coin in that piece as well.

If need be, take it in steps, as I am doing. Upgrade Monitors first, upgrade audio interface second, or vice versa).

My personal philosophy is that you should invest as much as you can afford in the right solutions for the following three things:

1. Good Computer
2. Good Audio Interface
3. Good Monitors

Everything else should be a secondary consideration until these three things are taken care of. That's just my personal opinion, others on this forum may disagree.

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Originally posted by Eric J Well if you can afford the Focal Twins, I personally recommend them based on my short time with them. The problem is that there is a huge price difference between the Mackie's and the Focal Twins. I mean your talking about $1,300 a pair for the Mackies versus $3,000 a pair for the Focals. If you can afford them, then its definitely worth the upgrade. That being said, don't forget about your audio interface. Make sure you have at least a decent mid-level audio interface, and if not, you should also consider investing a decent amount of coin in that piece as well. If need be, take it in steps, as I am doing. Upgrade Monitors first, upgrade audio interface second, or vice versa). My personal philosophy is that you should invest as much as you can afford in the right solutions for the following three things: 1. Good Computer 2. Good Audio Interface 3. Good Monitors Everything else should be a secondary consideration until these three things are taken care of. That's just my personal opinion, others on this forum may disagree.

Thank you so much for the advice. You also said the Lynx Aurora is good as an interface so should that be a consideration...? I have a Ibook Pro was looking to get a 2nd monitor to attach to my laptop. I also have to treat my room when I do purchase all of this. I know this is out of the topic but what do you think about purchasing a Virus TI Polar...? Thank you so much!

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Originally posted by snatonsb Thank you so much for the advice. You also said the Lynx Aurora is good as an interface so should that be a consideration...? I have a Ibook Pro was looking to get a 2nd monitor to attach to my laptop. I also have to treat my room when I do purchase all of this. I know this is out of the topic but what do you think about purchasing a Virus TI Polar...? Thank you so much!

Honestly, if you are working with an iBook, I'd highly recommend purchasing a faster computer first before investing in anything else. An entry level Mac Pro or equivalent PC should be your first consideration. All told, a Mac Pro, Focal Twins and Aurora interface is going to run in the neighborhood of $10,000. Do you have the budget for this all at once?

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Originally posted by Eric J OK, just got and set up the new Focal Twin 6's and all I have two words: HOLY COW!!!! The detail on these things is a major step up from my HR824's. I need some time to break them in, but even in the first few minutes I am seriously impressed. Even MP3's sound good on them, and they are PLEASANT! Not harsh, brittle or scooped at all! They make music sound like it is supposed to sound. Wide, full, not boosted or enhanced in any way. It reminds me of how music sounds when you are, lets say, "in a state", but you're actually stone cold sober. I'll post more once I have had a chance to use them for a bit.

wow, they do sound like the right investment. Need full review once you've put them through their paces.

Sorry, I forgot to respond to your last post (the long one).

Basically, I wanted to say that the Focals as your primary and the Mackies as your secondary reference is probably one of the finest and best thought out monitoring solutions that's been suggested, especially so for electronic music.

The focals will give you absolute clarity and the 824s will give you a classic dance music reference point. I wish I could afford this setup.

snatonsb, the mackies are great speakers - they do have some (very minor) character (as opposed to being completely flat or unbiased, but for EDM they really are an industry standard. They are a good purchase.

By the way eric, what did you decide for an audio interface? I'm recently hearing very good things (from engineers I trust) about the apogee symphony when used with Logic. Very stable, very flexible, sounds incredibly clear and some people are reporting stable latencies as low as 1.5 ms!

I'm still not sure if it beats the Lynx Auroura for clarity though....

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Originally posted by Eric J Honestly, if you are working with an iBook, I'd highly recommend purchasing a faster computer first before investing in anything else. An entry level Mac Pro or equivalent PC should be your first consideration. All told, a Mac Pro, Focal Twins and Aurora interface is going to run in the neighborhood of $10,000. Do you have the budget for this all at once?

Sorry I meant my MacBook Pro should be fast enough no..? It was a $3600 laptop dual core intel processor. 2gb of 667mhz ddr2 sdram and 160gb 5400-rpm hard drive. I have $6000 saved to spend on equipment is why I am asking all of this. Thank you for any advice you are giving though.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN wow, they do sound like the right investment. Need full review once you've put them through their paces.

I'll definitely post a review after I have had them for a bit. You'll be able to hear the audible results of the work soon enough on my myspace in previews. I have had several tracks in the can that I wanted to mix on the new monitors, so I'll be posting previews of these and sending them out to labels very soon.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN By the way eric, what did you decide for an audio interface? I'm recently hearing very good things (from engineers I trust) about the apogee symphony when used with Logic. Very stable, very flexible, sounds incredibly clear and some people are reporting stable latencies as low as 1.5 ms! I'm still not sure if it beats the Lynx Auroura for clarity though....

Definitely going for the Lynx Aurora 16. I was going to go with the Aurora 8 for $1,000 less, but I really wanted the option to add hardware in the future and 8 inputs just seemed like too few. With 16 inputs, I should have plenty of expandability for the future. It still going to be close to the end of the year before I can pick it up, because at $3,000 for the interface plus $800 for the AES 16e card, I'm needing to save up for it.

There have been a couple of hardware pieces that have caught my attention recently, so I want those extra inputs.

Regarding the Apogee...

The thing about the Apogee's that I have been told is that the Apogee talks about their "Apogee sound" alot in their product literature (which I have seen a lot of). The way it was explained to me was this: If the Apogee converters are TRULY transparent, then how can there be any type of "Apogee sound"? Wouldn't the Apogee sound be no sound at all? Just straight through, transparent conversion?

I have had more than one person tell me that when they compared the Apogee converters with the Lynx and Prism converters, there is a small "bump" in the 400 Hz range of 1-2 db. This is what constitutes the "Apogee sound". Since most of these people do a lot of live band work, that small bump can multiply quickly, especially if you are continually running ADC and DAC by passing sounds in and out of outboard hardware.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Apogee has bad converters, I just have been told (and shown) that the Lynx converters are flatter and more transparent than the Apogee stuff by an order of magnitude, and at that price range, I want flat as a pancake in my ADC and DAC.

Anyway, I can put you in touch with the guy I deal with if you want to get the same story from him, as he can explain it a little better on the phone.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN By the way eric, what did you decide for an audio interface? I'm recently hearing very good things (from engineers I trust) about the apogee symphony when used with Logic. Very stable, very flexible, sounds incredibly clear and some people are reporting stable latencies as low as 1.5 ms!

Don't get caught in the hype too much

Latency is a factor which is mostly influenced by processing power, not so much the soundcard itself, given that is has proper drivers such as asio or the likes. I can go below 1ms with my soundcard as well, but it would almost triple the ammount of processing power necessary to accomplish such a low latency .

It takes more processing power to get the packages quickly and organised to the soundcard in a shorter timeframe, simply put. So in theory you can achieve very low latency with just a proper computer without any good soundcard.

Most important part is the quality/stability of the drivers and the ammount of detail the soundcard captures/exposes when converting the sound from the digital domain to the analog and vice versa .

Apogee is more or less an industry standard for high quality sound. There are others out there though. But apogee definitely is good



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I just tested latency at 5.8ms, some track I used to test peaks at about 12% cpu, while it peaks at 22% with 0.7ms. No crackles at both settings

quote:

Originally posted by snatonsb My Ibook Pro should be fast enough no..? It was a $3600 laptop dual core intel processor. 2gb of 667mhz ddr2 sdram and 160gb 5400-rpm hard drive. I have $6000 saved to spend on equipment is why I am asking all of this. Thank you for any advice you are giving though.

Maybe, it depends on what you want to do. How fast the the processor?

A 5400 RPM disk is not going to cut it if you are doing a lot of audio streaming from the disk.

As for the $6,000, please do a LOT of research before you decide on where to sink that cash. You need to assess your needs and figure out what problem you are trying to solve by sinking more cash into your studio. Personally, I was having loads of problems with mix translation across different systems, which is why I did/am sinking so much money into Monitors and Audio Interface. If you are not having problems with translation, then it may not be necessary for you.

It may help if you give us more information on what you have.

1. Are you running a primarily hardware or software based studio?
2. What kind of audio interface do you currently have?
3. What kind of monitors do you currently have?

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Maybe, it depends on what you want to do. How fast the the processor? A 5400 RPM disk is not going to cut it if you are doing a lot of audio streaming from the disk. As for the $6,000, please do a LOT of research before you decide on where to sink that cash. You need to assess your needs and figure out what problem you are trying to solve by sinking more cash into your studio. Personally, I was having loads of problems with mix translation across different systems, which is why I did/am sinking so much money into Monitors and Audio Interface. If you are not having problems with translation, then it may not be necessary for you. It may help if you give us more information on what you have. 1. Are you running a primarily hardware or software based studio? 2. What kind of audio interface do you currently have? 3. What kind of monitors do you currently have?

Yeah I really want to think this out before I shell out all that cash at times like this. Primarily running a software based studio. Just got Logic Pro 8 and it runs fine. I just want to know that I will be fine with my Macbook Pro and do minor upgrades to it instead of shelling out so much more money on a new computer...? I have some start out Krk monitors. That is why I was asking about monitors as in I wanted to upgrade. The Mackie and Focals is where my eyes are set. You said Focals is worth the upgrade if I have the $$$ so I am assuming these are the ones I should purchase no...? Are the Mackie's are capable of making good sounding EDM tracks....? Last question where is a good place to buy the Focals at...? Thanks for using your time to help out!

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