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-- Planned Parenthood and creepy dreams!
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Originally posted by sean5 a law professor told us about a case where a lady went to have a late term abortion and the baby wound up being born. because the doctor thought she wouldn't want the kid and that he was supposed to abort the baby, he suffocated it. fortunately, he was turned over to authorities.

That's such a common scenario. Thanks for adding that.

quote:

Originally posted by sean5 a law professor told us about a case where a lady went to have a late term abortion and the baby wound up being born. because the doctor thought she wouldn't want the kid and that he was supposed to abort the baby, he suffocated it. fortunately, he was turned over to authorities.

He should have sold it on craigslist.
How is the fetus actually terminated in a late term abortion?

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Originally posted by malice He should have sold it on craigslist. How is the fetus actually terminated in a late term abortion?

They crush his or her skull and suck the brains out with a vacuum.

Are the fetuses ever used for stem cell research?

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Originally posted by malice Are the fetuses ever used for stem cell research?

The Republicans won't allow embryonic stem cell research period, so of course not.

What is the opposition?

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov The Republicans won't allow embryonic stem cell research period, so of course not.

Thats because it would make the barbaric act of late term abortion more acceptable.

Silly liberal.

Re: Planned Parenthood and creepy dreams!

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Originally posted by The17sss So, I was out of town for a couple of weeks... got back the other day. Jet lag and all, I still had to work Friday, and my work consisted of visiting the Planned Parenthood office in Asheville to do some chemical testing. Long story short, I was there for about 2 hours... and during that time I got to see the whole gamet of people and emotions. Saw young chicks coming in behind their parents' backs, saw a couple come looking scared as fuck, saw a woman walking out of one of the exam rooms after finishing her "procedure" super happy and ready to party, saw the stereotypical business/professional girl going through the motions and yucking it up with the staff like she was there to get a manicure, and saw a lot of people who looked really ashamed if you made eye contact with them. The staff were all making tongue-in-cheek "abortion" jokes and it was just..... ugh.... eerie. Before going in there I thought, "Who gives a shit? I'm there to do a job independant of what happens in that place, and that's all I need to focus on." But after being in there, knowing what was going on in some of those rooms 5 feet away from me really creeped me out, even if I'm all for a woman's right to choose. So, sure enough, I had a dream last night that I was in there, and I could hear a subtle splashing sound coming from one of the exam rooms... I was afraid of what I would see but I had to go in there and look. I looked in the toilet and there was a little fetus in there the size of a grape flopping around like a fish, it's veiny head and beatie eyes in such detail... it sent chills down my spine. This creepy feeling I woke up with has stayed with me all day today. When I told one of my friends I was doing a job there, he said "does that make you feel wierd at all?" and I said "nope... I'll take anyone's money." But now I wish I didn't go.

DUUUUUUUUUUUDE! That's sick

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Originally posted by tryan1977 Thats because it would make the barbaric act of late term abortion more acceptable. Silly liberal.

Your understanding of stem cell research rivals our President's.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Your understanding of stem cell research rivals our President's.

We haven't even got into any specifics. Hell of a zinger.

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Originally posted by tryan1977 Thats because it would make the barbaric act of late term abortion more acceptable. Silly liberal.

I love how conservatives take it upon themselves to tell others how to live their lives. How about fucking off ay?

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Originally posted by tryan1977 We haven't even got into any specifics. Hell of a zinger.

Well he, like you, believes that the discussion about stem cell research begins and ends at abortion, when in reality abortion has absolutely nothing to do with it.

So the fact that you didn't even get into the specifics is in fact what warrants the so-called "zinger".

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Originally posted by Krypton I love how conservatives take it upon themselves to tell others how to live their lives. How about fucking off ay?

So I guess by imposing death on a fetus youre not imposing your will on his or her's life.

Great logic.

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Originally posted by tryan1977 So I guess by imposing death on a fetus youre not imposing your will on his or her's life. Great logic.

The fetus is a part of the mother's body, so legally, she can choose to do with her body what she wants. You may disagree with that morally, as do I, but I don't go around imposing my version of morality on the rest of society, hence why I said, "fuck off ay?"

This may be a little off-track, but isn't it the same pro-life conservatives who advocate the death penalty for criminals? The hypocrisy of the supposed moral high grounders is baffling...

i can think of an even scarier nightmare...


imagine if all of those unwanted babies were had and then bounced around in foster care where they get abused or raised by careless idiot parents resulting in yet another sociopath among us.

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Originally posted by Krypton This may be a little off-track, but isn't it the same pro-life conservatives who advocate the death penalty for criminals? The hypocrisy of the supposed moral high grounders is baffling...

So lets destroy innocent life yet let the guilty murders and rapists live.

Wouldnt you rather live in a society that takes the life of the guilty but harbors the life of the innocent?

Ideally there would be neither. But you seem to think that all abortions happen in the last trimester, which is certainly not what anybody had suggested. I think everyone is in agreement that abortion happens too often, and there should be steps taken to decrease the frequency of abortion. However, many of your compatriots seem to think that abstinence-only education is more effective than condom use in that regard, which is just foolish.

Abortion is a right that is sometimes abused. Just like gun ownership. Or freedom of speech. It doesn't mean it should be taken away from those for whom the right serves. Biological science shows that in the first trimester there is no indication that an embryo is anything more than potential life. There is no brain function, no heartbeat, no nerve functioning, etc.

Sarah Palin believes rape victims should not be allowed an abortion in the first trimester, but should be charged for their own rape kits. That's not mainstream, but I'd be amused to see you attempt to justify it as such.

I think we have a situation not at all different than gun control. Liberals agree that abortion in the third trimester and partial-birth abortions are almost universally wrong. Just as conservatives agree that automatic assault rifles have no business being legal. But you have an ideological base in both cases unwilling to yield any ground for fear of justifying the beliefs of the other.

quote:

Originally posted by tryan1977 So lets destroy innocent life yet let the guilty murders and rapists live. Wouldnt you rather live in a society that takes the life of the guilty but harbors the life of the innocent?

What does killing a criminal achieve? It's a proven fact the death penalty does not deter violent crime. Why do you apply a double standard on human life?

A fetus is a part of a woman's body, and so the woman is at liberty to do with her body what she pleases, as long as nobody else's rights are violated. I find abortion reprehensible but the moral issue of it is up to the woman in question, since the fetus is part of her body. She'll have to live with her decision for the rest of her life.

The difference between me and you is I don't impose my version of morality on the rest of society...

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Kind of still sounds like he's making shit up... again.

WTF? fuck you dude. why the hell would I make this up? You want me to fax you a copy of the damn purchase order and photo documentation from when I was there or something?

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Don't worry - he agrees with you. Which is why he was using a manufactured memory to make a cheap political point.

holy SHIT. go fuck yourself bro. did I post in the political forum? no. I even said I support a woman's right to choose... and I still do. I was just telling my story man. Not everything is about politics.

Edit: If you notice, nowhere in my post was I judgemental about those people I saw in there. I was simply talking about how it affected ME. But look who's being judgemental... calling me a liar because you want to believe I'm making the issue about something else. Funny that you are the one who is actually making this thread about politics. This is exactly why I have stayed of out the politics forum lately... it's not possible to have an open minded, rational discussion with people like you

It is not my intention to get involved in an abortion debate (I've had my fair share of those over the years), but I feel a couple of points are in order:

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton You may disagree with that morally, as do I, but I don't go around imposing my version of morality on the rest of society, hence why I said, "fuck off ay?"

I don't see how any piece of legislation is independent of some moral framework.

To determine things to be legal or illegal reflects some sort of moral position. For example, it is illegal to exceed the posted speed limit in a residential area because it is wrong endanger the lives of pedestrians and property.

You can spin this in a variety of ways, but there's always a recourse back to the advancement of a moral position, and it is a moral position which has been enshrined into law.

When you advocate for the legalization of abortion, you're advocating for the legislation of morality (in this case, morality that has already been legislated).

So it's not a matter of whether or not we should legislate morality, but it's rather a question of whose or which morality we ought to legislate.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton This may be a little off-track, but isn't it the same pro-life conservatives who advocate the death penalty for criminals? The hypocrisy of the supposed moral high grounders is baffling...

Depending upon the underlying reasoning, there isn't necessarily a contradiction in these two positions.

If, on the one hand, one opposes abortion by virtue of the premise that it is immoral to take any human life for any reason, then yes, there's an irreconcilable conflict here.

On the other hand, if one opposes abortion, but accepts capital punishment on the premise that the criminal convicted of a capital crime thereby looses the right to protection an otherwise innocent person would have, then there's no inconsistency between them.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss holy SHIT. go fuck yourself bro. did I post in the political forum? no. I even said I support a woman's right to choose... and I still do. I was just telling my story man. Not everything is about politics. Edit: If you notice, nowhere in my post was I judgemental about those people I saw in there. I was simply talking about how it affected ME. But look who's being judgemental... calling me a liar because you want to believe I'm making the issue about something else. Funny that you are the one who is actually making this thread about politics. This is exactly why I have stayed of out the politics forum lately... it's not possible to have an open minded, rational discussion with people like you

When the sources you bring to the table in the politics forum are Rush Limbaugh and FoxNews... you reap what you sow.

But that's really neither here nor there.

I'm sorry your thread turned out political - but did you expect anything else by bringing abortion to a public forum?

quote:

Originally posted by Audious That's such a common scenario. Thanks for adding that.

no it's not, idiot.

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Originally posted by Paradox Lost It is not my intention to get involved in an abortion debate (I've had my fair share of those over the years), but I feel a couple of points are in order: I don't see how any piece of legislation is independent of some moral framework. To determine things to be legal or illegal reflects some sort of moral position. For example, it is illegal to exceed the posted speed limit in a residential area because it is wrong endanger the lives of pedestrians and property. You can spin this in a variety of ways, but there's always a recourse back to the advancement of a moral position, and it is a moral position which has been enshrined into law. When you advocate for the legalization of abortion, you're advocating for the legislation of morality (in this case, morality that has already been legislated). So it's not a matter of whether or not we should legislate morality, but it's rather a question of whose or which morality we ought to legislate. Depending upon the underlying reasoning, there isn't necessarily a contradiction in these two positions. If, on the one hand, one opposes abortion by virtue of the premise that it is immoral to take any human life for any reason, then yes, there's an irreconcilable conflict here. On the other hand, if one opposes abortion, but accepts capital punishment on the premise that the criminal convicted of a capital crime thereby looses the right to protection an otherwise innocent person would have, then there's no inconsistency between them.

I won't disagree with anything you've written here... though your fundamental premise seems to be founded upon the instance of abortion after the beginning of life. Which leads to the philosophical question of when that moment actually occurs and the imposition of one belief structure (typically religion) over another (typically science).

quote:

Originally posted by Paradox Lost I don't see how any piece of legislation is independent of some moral framework. To determine things to be legal or illegal reflects some sort of moral position. For example, it is illegal to exceed the posted speed limit in a residential area because it is wrong endanger the lives of pedestrians and property. You can spin this in a variety of ways, but there's always a recourse back to the advancement of a moral position, and it is a moral position which has been enshrined into law.

... and that's probably the dumbest thing I've read all week. F

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