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Good thread.

i have to say in this type of industry, don't expect a job right out of college being an audio engineer or even a paid job. expect to work for free for 3-6 months and being told sorry, we wont hire but you can work for free if you want. eff that

specially during these times, its extremely if not almost impossible to break through in this industry. i did same thing, your all doing and took studio recording classes in my first 2 years of college, did an internship at a recording studio but no1 would offer me a job. went back to school to get my bachelors did another internship, this time at a studio that does composition and engineering for commercials and tv, same thing happend, no job offer. i basically gave up and i'm about to take a production manager job at a webcasting company which has nothing to do with what i really wanted to do but its a job that actually pays (wow what a concept!) and can be a career. i'm also, pretty desperate since the job market sucks right now.

i say steer away, but if your doing it for your own benefit, go for it. you will learn alot.

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Originally posted by sot i have to say in this type of industry, don't expect a job right out of college being an audio engineer or even a paid job. expect to work for free for 3-6 months and being told sorry, we wont hire but you can work for free if you want. eff that specially during these times, its extremely if not almost impossible to break through in this industry. i did same thing, your all doing and took studio recording classes in my first 2 years of college, did an internship at a recording studio but no1 would offer me a job. went back to school to get my bachelors did another internship, this time at a studio that does composition and engineering for commercials and tv, same thing happend, no job offer. i basically gave up and i'm about to take a production manager job at a webcasting company which has nothing to do with what i really wanted to do but its a job that actually pays (wow what a concept!) and can be a career. i'm also, pretty desperate since the job market sucks right now. i say steer away, but if your doing it for your own benefit, go for it. you will learn alot.

For real. I gave up a very well paying coporate job (still in pro audio) to work in a studio and trust me, unless you're willing to be broke and single, as well as extremely tired through sleep deprevation for the next 25 years, don't even think about getting a job in a studio.

Go to school to learn about the industry and for you're own personal benefit.

One of the things Harris taught me is that there are so many careers you can have relating to this field and they push you pursue all the directions. I've had 3 totally different career changes since leaving there and as they teach you at Harris, most people working in entertainment or music go though at least 6 different careers in your lifetime.

Don;t go to audio engineering school to become a rich engineer - it hardly ever happens. If you want to be an engineer, do it for nothing else than the love of it because that's the only thing that will get you through one of the toughest jobs there is.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN For real. I gave up a very well paying coporate job (still in pro audio) to work in a studio and trust me, unless you're willing to be broke and single, as well as extremely tired through sleep deprevation for the next 25 years, don't even think about getting a job in a studio. Go to school to learn about the industry and for you're own personal benefit. One of the things Harris taught me is that there are so many careers you can have relating to this field and they push you pursue all the directions. I've had 3 totally different career changes since leaving there and as they teach you at Harris, most people working in entertainment or music go though at least 6 different careers in your lifetime. Don;t go to audio engineering school to become a rich engineer - it hardly ever happens. If you want to be an engineer, do it for nothing else than the love of it because that's the only thing that will get you through one of the toughest jobs there is.

Spot on.
I went to SAE for a degree- was v poor imho- I learnt more elsewhere from a course that was pre degree.

Still, I now engineer for three of the genuinely best clubs in the world (ooh...controversial - rann, im expecting a PM from you any minute asking which is the new club .. ) work in some of the other well known ones from time to time, and get to work with the best DJs in the world on a weekly basis so it's not all bad
- but dont for a second think that that was got because I have a degree in this.

Believe me, you can do a hell of a lot in this business- possibly more- with NO formal education in the field, a mentor, and an eagerness to learn and put in the hard work from the bottom up.
Thinking you have a diploma/degree whatever and will walk into an engineering or producing gig is extremely naiive and not how the industry works at all.

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Originally posted by Tony Morello full sail is one of the best programs you can enroll in for audio engineering http://www.fullsail.com/ my old college instructor said they were modeling their new production program (one of the top radio schools in canada) after it when i asked if he knew anything about it looks like i'll wind up in vancouver though, i hear the program there is quite good and respected

full sail is over-priced. would rather go to SAE

there's an agreed consensus here, so i'll just add support to the words of others.

i did my degree in music technology at nyu back in 2004, but by my junior year, i knew studio work wasn't promising enough for me to stay in that field. so i came over to the UK to get a masters in acoustics, and now work in consulting with engineers/architects on a huge variety of buildings around the world.

I was thinking of going to Vancouver Film School to study sound design. Has anyone been through their program?


That sounds like a really cool job b i n k u n. Does it pay well and is work steady?

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Originally posted by Volterock I was thinking of going to Vancouver Film School to study sound design. Has anyone been through their program? That sounds like a really cool job b i n k u n. Does it pay well and is work steady?

In Europe and the UK particularly, we're on par with other engineering consultants. It's the better alternative (for me) in terms of pay and steady work. It's a compromise, as I lose the freelance-feel of most music type jobs...but that's life.

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Originally posted by jupiterone full sail is over-priced. would rather go to SAE

Don't do either....

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Fullsail, is a joke IMO. It costs $40K (yes) for a full audio engineering diploma and even though they do have good facilities and a really fancy website, that's mainly where your tuition money is going. I know a lot of people who went there and really pissed because there are a lot of rich kid wannabe's, who don't actually give a shit about the course (it's just something cool for them to do for a while) and many of the tutors cater to this class mentality. Some people I know did get a good education from it but they said it was only because they really put a lot in to making sure they got their money's worth. Even then, I wouldn't say their knowledge was that great, having seen their class notes and supplied course work. SAE, is generally crap. You get out what you put in, but again there are so many idiots there and my experience is that their tutors really aren't that qualified or experienced. They also, aren't that cheap and their courses are quite limited.

These are both just corporate entities and less of teaching instititions. The teachers are there for the paycheck. Go to somewhere that is going to push you to the limit in terms of learning, and don't do a course that just teaches you how to engineer in a studio - that will set you on a narrow career course and in this industry, you have to be able to diversify yourself.

Actually, I genrally advise against degrees (because all my mates who went to good universities and got degrees in things like Music Technology, discovered that they could have done it in a year on an intensive diploma program and studios don;t give a shot if you've got a degree, a diploma or just on the job training).....but getting a degree in something like Acoustical Engineering or DSP Engineering is a good path to a well paid audio related corporate job.

I'm in my last year of my 4 year audio engineering/music business degree at columbia college chicago. is it worth it? I think so, but then again I got a ton of financial aid. If I had to do it again on a budget I'd say go with a 2 year associates degree. Like someone said, what you get in is what you get out.

Personally the knowledge of how synthesis works is worth it for me, I thought I'd never know how so many sounds were created, but now I do and can make them myself which is a really cool feeling.

I like reading this thread.

I'm currently in a 5 year Engineering Physics program at a university. Recently I had a job interview with a Audio/Software Development company. I'm really hoping i get the job. They said there's quite a few DJs working there.

You can bet your ass that if you're coming out of a college/university with an engineering degree that took 4 years to get, you'll find work. Engineering is one of the most stable kind of jobs out there (one of the major reasons why I chose to go into it). Although, nobody has ever mentioned "audio engineering" during my studies. It's always about the mechanical, biochem, systems, computer, physics, civil, electrical, chemical etc. engineering. I don't think "audio engineering" is technically considered a "type" of engineering. Not sure

There's an engineering program called "Mechatronics Engineering" at my university, and even that isnt considered an official "type" of engineering.

Curious as to what some of you think of Berkley's courses?

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Interesting posts in this thread. Yes, you can learn engineering yourself (in fact you can theoretically teach anything to yourself with the right resources, but it's a shitload easier and faster to get relatively better at a given subject if you are taught it first. I've looked (viewed and toured) at schools in London, Canada the USA, including: UK - SAE several, Point Blank, university of Midx, Technics Academy. Canada - Trebas, the Harris Institute, York, Recording Arts canada. USA - Fullsail, Los Angeles Recording school (LARS), the Guitar Institute, SAE, UCLA. I actually went to Harris Institute and it was, without doubt, THE GREATEST EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE. PERIOD. I could honestly write pages about how good the Producing engineering progrm (PEP) is there, but won't bore you with it. It's also only about $9k (CAD) for a year. it was a minimum of 40 hours per week, covering 14 subjects at any one time, taught by some of the music/sound industry's major players, including seriously respected studio and live sound engineers, Acoustic consultants and even A+R executives and entertainment lawyers. This is especially great as you won;t just get an education in technical ability, but also the basics of how to prepare yourself for the sorts of jobs you're going to go for. They teach you basic electronics and soldering, as well as music theory and history of contemporary music. They make you do things like assist in a club as coursework (they set it up). Basically, when you come out of there you will have a great grounding on the industry as a whole, but also be a superb engineer - the technical aspects of the course are so intense and the learning so full on. Nothing I have seen or heard about from any of the dozen or so schools I seriously researched has come close. Graduates from there go on to very good things, partly because of the contacts made there (through the school, or through tutors or through canadian companies respecting it as a school). SAE, is generally crap. You get out what you put in, but again there are so many idiots there and my experience is that their tutors really aren't that qualified or experienced. They also, aren't that cheap and their courses are quite limited. Recording Arts Canada - seemed OK but looked like a copy of the model that Harris set up, so why bother? LARS - amazing facility, excellent campus and good course but at $24k rather expensive for just 10 months, especially as living in LA is not cheap and there is no parking at the school, meaning at least about another $3k for the year just to park near the school. Their reputation is mixed but at least the have an internship program to place you in job during the course. You better be rich for this one because the class times are such that you won't be able to work and they change each month - at least they're upfront about it. The others (the universities listed) are more or less the same - they all do courses, but in my experience there is absolutely no need to do a 4 year degree in engineering as you can learn it in a year as long as the tuition is good, and a diploma from a decent audio school will serve you just as well as a degree of you want to work in the industry. All the jobs I've gone for don't care if it's a degree or a diploma, just as long as you have been taught well. Unless you want to get really techy like audio physics for industrial uses/civil engineering etc. If you want to be serious about audio engineering go to THE HARRIS INSTITUTE. If you want more info, PM me (I'm not affiliated in any way apart from I am incredibly greatful for the education they gave me). Living in Toronto is wicked too.

Hey man, I was actually planning on going to SAE in January. I spoke to the staff and it sounded cool, but i never talked to anyone who knew first hand how good it "actually" is. So in your honest opinion is it really that bad? I liked SAE because it offered and EMP course (Electronic Music Producer) and also the audio tech (engineering, etc) But if it is acutally that bad and not worth it, you just saved me about 15-20g's . So about the Harris school. You obviously think that it is the best or at least one of them, and it sounds like it from what you describe and ya living in Toronto would be fucking awesome, but how does it compare to SAE i guess. do they offer also other courses like the EMP course that SAE has? And i was planning on going to SAE in San Fransisco so would it be cheaper for housing in San Fran or Torronto? Plus the exchange rate and all..

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