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-- The Globe and Mail: A master plan to rein in 'Clubland'
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Originally posted by kaniz However, isn't he representing the people who live in that area? and most of the people that are affected by his plans don't actually live there - just come to it on the weekends.

Yes, and those people spend money in the area in return for the clubbing services that they receive. As an organizer or manager, you have to realise where your revenue comes from in order to make sure it does not disappear.

If a big city only catered to the people that directly lived there, then there would be no point for anybody else to enter it. You think the skydome, or various theaters or cultural events are only populated by people that actually live within the city limits?

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Just burn all of clubland to the ground and get the condos built....I am sick of all that crap noise anyhow and I am looking for a new condo so this would be perfect.

how about a unit in this building? and it's right in front of the scotiabank theatre.

I studied urban planning and I'm all for beautifying the area and regulating the zoning to allow for a more mixed-use Clubland.

I agree with those who want to see the city allow more clubs to be created outside of the boundaries of Clubland. There are definitely more commercial/industrial parts of the city where clubs can thrive outside of resdential areas.

Last call being at 2AM and the law that requires some bars to shut down by 3AM is what's causing a lot of the disdain among non-clubbing Clubland residents. I hope we can all agree that the out-of-town drinking crowds are the ones who cause the most problems in the neighborhood. A couple of high sketchbags are less harmful than the drunk ass holes and their stupid friends trying to build up their egos and prove who's dick is bigger.

Thank god FW, Guv and CZ are outside of Clubland.

quote:

Originally posted by kaniz However, isn't he representing the people who live in that area? and most of the people that are affected by his plans don't actually live there - just come to it on the weekends.

it's an ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT with the majority of residential units NOT being there before the clubs/bars. This area was a commercial/industrial wasteland before it became what it is now.

I'm all for mixed-use zoning (in fact, I prefer it over exclusive zoning) but the people who CHOOSE to live there need to realize that it's going to be significantly different than living in a quiet 100% residential neighbourhood in a subdivision. Again, I'm not arguing that residents entirely forfeit their rights to safety, reasonable noise levels, etc....but there is a middle ground and some common sense ought to prevail here.

another gem from Vaughan in the papers today after the bust this week:

quote:

"But there's a light at the end of the tunnel. And it's not a strobe light coming from the next club, but a better tomorrow."

you can argue that one or two quotes might be taken out of context, but he says stuff like this ALL THE TIME. His contempt for the district is clear and if it was up to him, he would revamp the entire district, I'm sure.

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Originally posted by MarkT I'm all for mixed-use zoning (in fact, I prefer it over exclusive zoning) but the people who CHOOSE to live there need to realize that it's going to be significantly different than living in a quiet 100% residential neighbourhood in a subdivision. Again, I'm not arguing that residents entirely forfeit their rights to safety, reasonable noise levels, etc....but there is a middle ground and some common sense ought to prevail here.

lol. you're asking for too much
common sense? compromise? lol. people are inherently selfish, esp. people claiming their rights and not give a damn about others

I enjoyed the Star article I was reading on Friday where the chief of Police for Vaughan was discussing the higher murder rate this year.
He attributed some of the incidents to people engaging in a Riskier lifestyle. The quote I enjoyed to most was, "If you go to work, come home and watch the hockey game, you are living a safe lifestyle and generally would not experience violent crime, but if you choose to spend time in one of the 1000 licensed venues in Mississauga, you are living a riskier lifestyle and would increase your chance of an incident"

I thought this seemed inline with the what I am reading here.

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Originally posted by Vogon I enjoyed the Star article I was reading on Friday where the chief of Police for Vaughan was discussing the higher murder rate this year. He attributed some of the incidents to people engaging in a Riskier lifestyle. The quote I enjoyed to most was, "If you go to work, come home and watch the hockey game, you are living a safe lifestyle and generally would not experience violent crime, but if you choose to spend time in one of the 1000 licensed venues in Mississauga, you are living a riskier lifestyle and would increase your chance of an incident" I thought this seemed inline with the what I am reading here.

Wow, this infuriates me to read. So because he enjoys sitting at home in front of a screen after a long day of work, every body else should too?



This guy needs to get a grip on reality. Politicians are not around to tell me how to live my life.

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Originally posted by The Highroller Wow, this infuriates me to read. So because he enjoys sitting at home in front of a screen after a long day of work, every body else should too? This guy needs to get a grip on reality. Politicians are not around to tell me how to live my life.

lol it's funny since we live in the "nanniest" province in probably the most "nanniest" city..

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Originally posted by dEsidEL lol it's funny since we live in the "nanniest" province in probably the most "nanniest" city..

With what seems like a pretty liberal take on life, how they hell did this happen? We accept all cultures, from all walks of life, with all orientations, but for some reason the city is playing nanny.

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Originally posted by Orko With what seems like a pretty liberal take on life, how they hell did this happen? We accept all cultures, from all walks of life, with all orientations, but for some reason the city is playing nanny.

lol good question .. I'm waiting for jayx1 to chime in on this one

Captain Douchebag

It's because of egotistical politicians like Adam Vaughn who have a "vision" of what life in the city should be like that our "****** city exists. A government is here to provide services to taxpayers and to uphold the law. They are not here to tell their citizens, who are human beings capable of making decisions, how to live.

Branching off from what Mark said, there seems to be a problem with the current setup of government if a decision being made by a politician, or his constituents affects other citizens who do not have a say in the matter (re: not living in the riding).

I could see this being a slippery slope, and although this specific scenario won't make me want to leave the city, this could lead to a situation where I might want to move from Toronto.

Is there anyway for me to voice my concern about this to a relevant politician?

i can definitely see him being such a hard ass on this issue if he intends to run for mayor eventually to show that he can "get things done".

he's well known in the city due to being on tv for however many years, his father was a well known politician and tv personality as well, and now he's "cleaning up the city". this area is perfect as it deals with a lot of issues that the majority of people care about. crime being number 1. and if you can spin it in a way that puts blame on a specific area, in this case the entertainment district, showing your leadership skills at work and progess being made is the perfect way to garner support.

also, adding support by proposing residential development in your area adds potential votes in your favor.

i just think this is part of a bigger plan rather than him just having a problem with the club district because of his ideals/beliefs/views or whatever you want to call it.

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Originally posted by smuncky i just think this is part of a bigger plan rather than him just having a problem with the club district because of his ideals/beliefs/views or whatever you want to call it.

good call.

Anyone know who the next strongest candidate is in Trinity Sapdina? I wanna make sure my vote counts whenever the next municipal election is. Oh and btw, you can't blame my for Chow. Who the hell votes NDP in downtown TO anyhow? There's no manufacturing jobs lost here! Move back to Hamilton.

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Originally posted by The Highroller It's because of egotistical politicians like Adam Vaughn who have a "vision" of what life in the city should be like that our "****** city exists. A government is here to provide services to taxpayers and to uphold the law. They are not here to tell their citizens, who are human beings capable of making decisions, how to live. Branching off from what Mark said, there seems to be a problem with the current setup of government if a decision being made by a politician, or his constituents affects other citizens who do not have a say in the matter (re: not living in the riding). I could see this being a slippery slope, and although this specific scenario won't make me want to leave the city, this could lead to a situation where I might want to move from Toronto. Is there anyway for me to voice my concern about this to a relevant politician?

Ha - I remember you telling me you thought Toronto was changing and I disagreed.

There really is no point in complaining to anyone at the municipal level since Miller is a complete douchebag and Vaughn is one of his boys. Until the people of Toronto get out and vote for other people who aren't left wing hippy tree huggers nothing will change.

While the entertainment district is a complete disaster it wasn't always like that. I remember going there every weekend and I never felt scared and always had a great time. There was always some trouble (hell I remember seeing a shooting outside Helium (now Devils Martini about 8 years ago). With the new crowd that goes there and the migration of people moving back downtown the area has become a disaster.

How do you correct the problem?
1.Continue to have a mix of residential, business and crowds but make sure the residents understand that there will be noise and crowds and that if you move there you will have to deal with it.
2.Allow clubs to open outside the district with liquor licences so there isn't as high a concentration of people in one area.
3.Eliminate last call all together - I have seen this work Europe. There is no binge drinking at last call, and everyone doesn't leave the clubs at the same time.
4.Finally we have to get tough with anyone who uses violence to solve a situation (guns, knife, bottle, etc) so the punishment starts to become a deterrant.

The chances of this happening in our lifetime with the governments Toronto continues to elect....NEVER.

I think the reason he gets people on his side is because the entertainment district gets so much press for the gun violence and general BS that goes on there.

If he ran on this platform in the last election, did the others running include their plan for the area in their platform too?

Something in the entertainment district has to change. It's a fucking gong show, and even people that like clubbing feel nervous about going there to go out. If Vaughan is the only person making it a priority to do something, then of course he's going to be elected, even if he is over the top.

quote:

Originally posted by kaniz You know, Clubland is a clusterfuck - but the City only has it's self to blame for putting in stupid zoneing bylaws which turned that area into 'club land' and making it difficult for clubs to open outside of that area. From what I gather, it's pretty much impossible to open up a "new" club anywhere in the city unless your taking over an existing space due to difficulties with licensing.

i think this is the biggest problem right now (the zoning idiocy).

i heard Adam Vaughan on the radio a couple of days ago and i was yelling in my car because the motherchucker was boasting about how many clubs he already got shut down. seriously, this guy is dumb!

a huge chuck of tourism is based on "clubland". let's keep kissing that money away.


P.S. Condos don't give life to a city, entertainment does (all forms, including clubs).

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess P.S. Condos don't give life to a city, entertainment does (all forms, including clubs).

For sure! Retarded politician bragging about how many clubs he shut down, STFU and get a life otherwise the city will go a LOT faster down the shitter in terms of tourism and then everyone will wonder "Why aren't people coming here?"

more Adam Vaughan hate material

quote:

In clubland, business as usual for drugs November 02, 2008 Nick Aveling Staff Reporter I arrived shortly after midnight, in search of wholesome fun and propriety. "How you doin', bro?" asked a particularly buoyant young gentleman. "Not bad. You?" "Pretty good: vodka-waters and a little candy," he said. Was someone handing out Skittles? According to City Councillor Adam Vaughan, it's just a matter of time before brightly packaged sugar products really are the only candy left in the Entertainment District. Speaking after an Oct. 20 drug bust � when police were able to fill their press gallery with the cash, guns, and drugs they found at Club 338 and two nearby stash houses � Vaughan proclaimed he could see the "light at the end of the tunnel" in the War Against Clubs. I was here at another Entertainment District club to see that light, to embrace the shining new clubland. What I encountered, though, was business as usual: drugs, techno and more drugs. Back at the club, I followed my new friend as he twitched through a cramped hallway, toward the music. The bass thumped inside my rib cage like a second heartbeat. The hall opened up to a dark, crowded room. To my right, a bar. To my left, another bar. Straight ahead was a dance floor, illuminated by four coloured spotlights that moved around the room like roving polka dots. I walked toward the dance floor, a Looney Tunes blur of spastic movement � the occasional arm or leg poking out from the fray. "There's no incentive to be on the dance floor," warned a man leaning against the wall, screaming into my ear from a close distance. "The ratio here's like 25 to one, man. I just have no motivation." So far, this place was a bust � and still no sign of Skittles. No longer in a dancing mood, I went to the bathroom to do some investigating. Did hay fever season start late this year? And what was that white powder on the toilet paper dispenser? The story outside, as smokers slumped beside each other against a brick wall, was more of the same. "What are you getting up to tonight?" I asked one man, who appeared to be seeing quadruple. "That's for me to find out and you ... that's for me to ... That's for me to know and you to ... you know what I mean." Another man said his friend was coming to "pick up." A third, with arms so muscular they no longer looked functional, told me, "$40 for a half, you'll love it." I later spoke with the club's co-owner, who said he wasn't surprised "that these things may happen at any club in the city." Nonetheless, he said, "we do our best at the door. We have a fairly strict search policy. We don't turn a blind eye to it. We do everything we can do to make sure the club stays clean from that kind of thing." That night, while I rubbed shoulders with the stumbling masses, police in the Entertainment District made eight arrests � mostly for assault. The most egregious involved a broken bottle. "It's alleged the accused was involved in a fight where he took a bottle, broke it over the victim's head, then stabbed the victim with the broken bottle," said Det. Sgt. Greg Cole. "We're trying to get a system in place where we've gotten rid of glass in bars. We'd like to see a system with plastic cups, that type of thing." Police also charged eight people with liquor licence offences � being intoxicated in a public place � and caught five bylaw offenders, those unfortunate souls with small bladders or bad timing or both. On Saturday, they made 23 arrests. None of Friday's arrests took place at the club I visited, and there were no fights. But there was at least one close call. Back in the bathroom, scribbling notes in the stall, I heard lowered voices. Then glass breaking. More voices piped in, growing louder, but soon it was over. I caught up to one of the involved men on his way outside. "I had to throw down a beer bottle in the middle of the bathroom to fend them off," he said. "They said I was short $20 ... so I threw the bottle ... and that's when they backed off." I'd had enough clubbing for one night, I decided, as I made my way into the night, dodging a maze of suspicious puddles.

source:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/529018

LOL! Wtf kind of journalism is that?

I can't even believe The Star published that. What BS fear mongering.

quote:

Toronto Star, I have noticed that in recent weeks, there has been a renewed front in the war on club land by both politicians and newspapers, including The Toronto Star. While I do admit that there are problems in the clubbing district, I believe that the "dangers" are being exaggerated, and that the solutions being recommended are misguided. If you ask anyone who attends nightclubs in this district regularly, anyone will tell you that the main problem is having such an early last call. When 2am arrives, no one is really quite ready to go home yet, so many buy several drinks right before 2am, and end up drinking them before the club closes at 3:00am. Then, everyone from all the licensed venues pour out onto the street. Chaos obviously ensues when you have so many highly intoxicated people pouring out onto the street in such a short period of time. Last year, I lived in a European city with a clubbing district comparable to Toronto's that I attended regularly. The only difference between that city and Toronto is that there was no last call. The lack of chaos in the street on Saturday and Sunday mornings was evidence for the consequences of having such an early last call in our city. Shutting down clubs is not the answer. Shutting down clubs will only satisfy a small group of people: certain residents and business in the district (although one wonders why someone would move into the clubbing district if they don't like living around clubs), and the finger-wagging idealists who believe that having a drink on a Friday or Saturday night is a vice that should be under strict control. If this war against clubs wages on and is successful, it will diminish Toronto's entertainment offerings, which will have a variety of negative effects. Not only will it impact our already struggling tourism industry, but it will also make Toronto less attractive for people considering moving here. It could also drive people out of the city who currently live here. I can easily say that if Adam Vaughn does to Toronto's nightclub scene what Giuliani did to New York City's years ago, I will be moving away from Toronto. Lastly, another consequence of a successful war on nightclubs is that it will drive nightclubs underground, and we'll end up back where we were in the 1990s, with people partying in underground parking lots with no running water. For the safety of those attending, we need to keep nightclubs in venues that have to adhere to safety regulations. Nightclubs are not going to go away. Let's be realistic with how we solve the current �problems� with clubland.

I just wrote this letter to the editor of The Toronto Star, and a modified version to Adam Vaughan.

quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller I just wrote this letter to the editor of The Toronto Star, and a modified version to Adam Vaughan.

Good for you. I just hope you didn't sign it The Highroller.

I'm seriously not surprised with that kind of article (i'm not going to call it reporting) from the Star. The sooner we get some balance back into Toronto city council (and get rid of Miller and his left wing dictatorship) and only then will we be able to actually have an inteligent conversation about the "problems".

Being able to think outside the box, looking at different points of view and solutions, trying things out in controlled tests instead of Miller's "lets BAN everything" approach.

But maybe i'm wrong as I know since Miller decided to ban guns within the City of Toronto that I feel much safer and there hasn't been any gun violence.

(above is sarcasm for anyone who didn't get it)

quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller I just wrote this letter to the editor of The Toronto Star, and a modified version to Adam Vaughan.

excellent text!!

Graham, I think it's Vaughan not Vaughn.

quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller I just wrote this letter to the editor of The Toronto Star, and a modified version to Adam Vaughan.

Nice, grahamers! Well done.

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