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-- The country where learning is a grave political disadvantage
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I don't think pragmatism has anything to do with it. Its a symptom of popular culture in the last few years. We just don't value smart people, intellectual thought, or education in general.

You can see it in this election. Apparently a Harvard Degree is not good enough to be president of the United States. I wonder, then, what degree is, and by that stretch is our entire education system a failure since one of our most prestigious schools is not capable of producing presidential material.


At least the republicans have me pondering this...

Did anti-intellectualism lead to excessive military spending or did excessive military spending lead to anti-intellectualism?

do ho ho

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The anti-intellectualism has been around a lot longer than the huge military budget. I think it's a cultural thing.

Also, a lot of idealizing of the "pioneer heritage" goes on in American images of history and even politics. What is valuable to a homesteading pioneer? Not a library or knowledge of philosophy or literature, but practical skill and hardy physical strength.

IMO lots of Americans still hold the "rural type" -- self-reliant (not attached to an institution), physically tough, emotionally unshakable -- as the ideal, and they see "intellectualism" as the opposite of that.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The anti-intellectualism has been around a lot longer than the huge military budget. I think it's a cultural thing.

I think americans are just scared shitless. Everything about contemporary american media; "news" shows, "documentaries", hollywood movies, tv series, music, etc, all cultivates this incredibly pessimistic and conservative view of the world. So what it all comes down to is that, when you're curled up in your little corner shivering, rocking back and forth and thinking everyone is out to hurt you, you're not going to bother listening to the intellectual rambling about his optimistic vision of hope for the future, especially when the guy next to him is offering to give you a gun and ammo.

BTW Arnold (governor of california) just announced 2-4 billion dollar cuts for california schools yesterday in the face of a 10 billion dollar budget deficit.

That should tell you how much we value education.

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Originally posted by Clovis I don't think pragmatism has anything to do with it. Its a symptom of popular culture in the last few years. We just don't value smart people, intellectual thought, or education in general. You can see it in this election. Apparently a Harvard Degree is not good enough to be president of the United States. I wonder, then, what degree is, and by that stretch is our entire education system a failure since one of our most prestigious schools is not capable of producing presidential material. At least the republicans have me pondering this...

Don't you get it? It's better to be a Miller Lite-guzzling backwoods retard with a second mortgage and a GED. At least this way you can sympathize with the 'common man' and feel their needs. The fact that you've dug yourself out of a life of destitude and poverty to attend Ivy League universities means nothing. What American dream?

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Originally posted by Project-K I think americans are just scared shitless. Everything about contemporary american media; "news" shows, "documentaries", hollywood movies, tv series, music, etc, all cultivates this incredibly pessimistic and conservative view of the world. So what it all comes down to is that, when you're curled up in your little corner shivering, rocking back and forth and thinking everyone is out to hurt you, you're not going to bother listening to the intellectual rambling about his optimistic vision of hope for the future, especially when the guy next to him is offering to give you a gun and ammo.

Well, like I said, I think this has very little to do with current events and fears. Anti-intellectualism has been around a looooooooong time in the U.S., far longer than any of our current political dilemmas.

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Originally posted by elFreak which can probably be attributed to a large population living very far from cultural centers in the US.

This and that the majority of US citizens (historically) were not well educated. This resulted in a cleavage between the educated few and the uneducated masses... a cleavage that has been used as a political tool to garner mass support by the electorate; usually by inflaming fears that the intellectuals control everything to the detriment of the common man.

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Originally posted by Clovis BTW Arnold (governor of california) just announced 2-4 billion dollar cuts for california schools yesterday in the face of a 10 billion dollar budget deficit. That should tell you how much we value education.

Exactly what I was getting at. We as a people don't give 2 shits about education funding, yet we want our kids to have a good education.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Well, like I said, I think this has very little to do with current events and fears. Anti-intellectualism has been around a looooooooong time in the U.S., far longer than any of our current political dilemmas.

That's true, but if it is part of the culture, then current political affairs are going to be interpreted in a way that's consistant with that culture. 9-11 made americans go batshit crazy, but then so did the cold war, and both world wars, and so on in that fashion. If you look at 1950s propaganda about how evil communists are out to get you, then look at what gets broadcasted on CNN on a daily basis, they're not all that different.

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Originally posted by elFreak speaking of which Lira, has hardly been practical. Would you agree?

Funny how my fiancée is deeply annoyed by that. I suck at being practical

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Originally posted by Renzo I mean, when's the last time you met a Japanese kid who sucked at math? And when's the last time you met a Japanese whore who couldn't suck a good dick? You know...just saying.

Well... I've never had a non-Japane... erm... never mind

The notion of the "American Dream" has always been very effective propaganda.

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Originally posted by Project-K If you look at 1950s propaganda about how evil communists are out to get you, then look at what gets broadcasted on CNN on a daily basis, they're not all that different.

True. To this day academics get accused of being communists and terrorist-sympathizers.

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Originally posted by Lira Funny how I get that same impression from Hollywood films. I don't know how that compares to Brazil, though, because our former president is one of the world's leading sociologists (Fernando Henrique Cardoso) and the current president is... well, a union guy. Still, it took this union guy a lot of work to convince the people he had a brain. Kinda ironic, if you think about it

well, isn't education in brazil reserved for the upper-crust? good education, that is...

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Originally posted by walcott well, isn't education in brazil reserved for the upper-crust? good education, that is...

Kinda. The best higher education institutions are free but, if you want to study there, going to private institutions in elementary/middle/high school will definitely give you a good headstart. This is a recent change, however, as the best institutions - in all levels - were public until the 70's.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The anti-intellectualism comes about because people in America associate "intellectuals" with physical and emotional weakness, impracticality, resentfulness of popularity and wealth, and other things that they see as detrimental to a satisfying life

yeah this about sums it all up, atleast for people born before the year 1980.

oh yeah for all of us born between 1980 and 1986, we are the next great generation and i hope you are all working hard to make sure we maintain the political and economic, social and militaristic hegemony that everyone around the world has come to love and rely on to keep up net exports

US $$$$$dollar bills$$$$$ for eternity!#%%!

WHY NOT US?!

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Originally posted by josh rising i'm from florida. and i'm not thick, i'm only 120 pounds...

You are?! where in FL?

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Originally posted by josh rising i'm from florida. and i'm not thick, i'm only 120 pounds...

*sigh*

Point proven

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Originally posted by josh rising i'm from florida. and i'm not thick, i'm only 120 pounds...

Josh you are definitely an exception to the rule. But you KNOW that Florida is FULL of fucking retards and fat-asses. Here's my interaction with a Floridian.

*at the hotel computers*

Middle-aged lady to me: "How do you get on the internet?"
Me: "click on the icon."
Lady: "what icon?"
Me: "umm...the only one that's there."
(Lady clicks on it. Window pops up. She closes it.)
Lady: "where is this icon?"
Me: "What?? You just clicked it. Why did you close the window?"
Lady: "I can't find the internet."
Me: "That WAS the internet! wow...click on the icon again."
Lady: "Don't make fun. I'm new to this."
Me: "New? Where are you from?"
Lady: "Florida" (clicks on icon again)
Me: (laughs out loud) "There. That's the internet"
Lady: "But where is AOL?"
Me: "See that space up on top. Type in the aol.com there."

I can understand if she was over 70. But she looked no older than 45. I didn't feel bad at all either laughing at her in front of her face. One fucking icon on the whole fucking computer and she didn't get it. Either she didn't advance past the age of 4, or she was stuck in the year 1988. Either way, typical Floridian.

Anyway back to subject, I pride myself in being a deviant in the American way of thinking, especially here on the West Coast where social retardation and being chill (i.e. lazy as fuck) is the norm. I think companies in America, which focus on convincing people they need some stupid products at the cheapest way possible, rather than focusing on what is actually psychologically and physically best for people, is fucking up America a lot. My philosophical standpoints are: do what's best for your psychological and physical well-being even at a higher cost, and learn for the sake of knowledge, not just for the sake of it's applicability.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson Josh you are definitely an exception to the rule. But you KNOW that Florida is FULL of fucking retards and fat-asses. Here's my interaction with a Floridian. *at the hotel computers* Middle-aged lady to me: "How do you get on the internet?" Me: "click on the icon." Lady: "what icon?" Me: "umm...the only one that's there." (Lady clicks on it. Window pops up. She closes it.) Lady: "where is this icon?" Me: "What?? You just clicked it. Why did you close the window?" Lady: "I can't find the internet." Me: "That WAS the internet! wow...click on the icon again." Lady: "Don't make fun. I'm new to this." Me: "New? Where are you from?" Lady: "Florida" (clicks on icon again) Me: (laughs out loud) "There. That's the internet" Lady: "But where is AOL?" Me: "See that space up on top. Type in the aol.com there." I can understand if she was over 70. But she looked no older than 45. I didn't feel bad at all either laughing at her in front of her face. One fucking icon on the whole fucking computer and she didn't get it. Either she didn't advance past the age of 4, or she was stuck in the year 1988. Either way, typical Floridian. Anyway back to subject, I pride myself in being a deviant in the American way of thinking, especially here on the West Coast where social retardation and being chill (i.e. lazy as fuck) is the norm. I think companies in America, which focus on convincing people they need some stupid products at the cheapest way possible, rather than focusing on what is actually psychologically and physically best for people, is fucking up America a lot. My philosophical standpoints are: do what's best for your psychological and physical well-being even at a higher cost, and learn for the sake of knowledge, not just for the sake of it's applicability.

I shit you not, I get this too fucking often at my job.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson My philosophical standpoints are: do what's best for your psychological and physical well-being even at a higher cost, and learn for the sake of knowledge, not just for the sake of it's applicability.

I like that.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles True. To this day academics get accused of being communists and terrorist-sympathizers.

That's because a lot of college campuses like UC Berkeley, Harvard, etc tend to be very liberal. The stereotypes for liberals are that they are communists/socialists, kind of like the stereotype for conservatives are they're redneck gun-toting bible thumpers. You hear about all those 1960s era radicals like Bill Ayers and Huey Newton? Ayers was on the board at UofIllinois and Huey Newton the Black Panthers founder got a degree from UC Santa Cruz.

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Originally posted by Lira Funny how I get that same impression from Hollywood films. I don't know how that compares to Brazil, though, because our former president is one of the world's leading sociologists (Fernando Henrique Cardoso) and the current president is... well, a union guy. Still, it took this union guy a lot of work to convince the people he had a brain. Kinda ironic, if you think about it

Is it sad that I know Cardoso as a sociologist but not as your former president?

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Originally posted by walcott I like that.

+1

It should be pointed out that anti-intellectualism amongst the working class is far from exclusive to the US.

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