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Originally posted by Seppuku you must have really thought this out.

lol

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Originally posted by Caution_BiPolar Also, any candidate that will not even respect the morals this country was founded on wins no respect from me.

what does this mean? legitimately curious here, not trying to be a douche.

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Originally posted by Caution_BiPolar Both candidates are guilty of false advertising, so I'm not going to call someone ignorant for reading a website that states one or the other is going to lower or raise taxes. However, I feel the democratic party is doing a much better job at misleading the general "ignorant" public into false claims. I'm a McCain supporter. I believe he is correct in stating that he has no intentions of raising anyone's taxes. I'm also dead against the concept of adding more taxes onto our businesses. The US unemployment rate is at a record high, and that's all we need is for Obama to tax the snot out of the businesses we have left, so they can lay off more people, or better yet, outsource thousands of more jobs to other countries. Yeah, it seems like a great idea to tax in excess of 30% for these business, but what does he plan to push it toward? 40- 50%? That's insane! Heck, if I were operating a company and knew I could base it in India, and hire people in India, and profit 50 times more than I could here, I would too! So in essence, Obama's great plan will be the final plummet of this economy. Then we'll have to be taxed even MORE to pay for all these people collecting unemployment benefits because their bosses and CEO's realize it's not beneficial to hire someone here. Taking that into consideration, any statement that the tax increase will effect 1% of the population is a flat out lie. It's eventually and inevitably hurt us all. Also, any candidate that will not even respect the morals this country was founded on wins no respect from me.

I remain unconvinced that supply-side economics is the way to go. The evidence that supple-side tax cuts help economic growth is unconvincing and weak at best.

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Originally posted by Seppuku you must have really thought this out.

we have a smart one here folks!

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Originally posted by iammesol Which morals are you talking about? The man has been quoting to constitution more than anyone I've ever seen in my life.

Do you know what morals are dude? They don't always have to do with the constitution. Not trying to question your values, but not sure why this is so hard to comprehend. I can't speak for what she may be referring to, but I personally respect the values this country was founded on. Obama would rather everyone just do whatever they feel like including having unhindered abortions.

And Sam, what I was saying is that Obama gives all this talk of change and yeah, he has ideas, but why people are buying into them is beyond me. mostly what he does is say how bad Bush is and how he will give us hope. He's playing off the fact that a lot of people want change.

At least there is a couple sane people on this forum.

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Originally posted by nchs09 No, its not.... so i wont.

I'm sure you know how everyone is going to vote. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that. You are a jackass.

Oh my god, I love the South.

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Originally posted by Scottaculous I remain unconvinced that supply-side economics is the way to go. The evidence that supple-side tax cuts help economic growth is unconvincing and weak at best.

+1. Furthermore, if the recent events in the global market have taught us anything, it's that the we need to shift from an neoclassical view of the economy to an institutional view.

...I'll pause while you run those terms through wikipedia... (half serious, half being an ass on this one.)

We need to realize that we can no longer operate as an isolationist supply/demand economy but, rather, as a leading player on a global stage.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 Do you know what morals are dude? They don't always have to do with the constitution. Not trying to question your values, but not sure why this is so hard to comprehend. I can't speak for what she may be referring to, but I personally respect the values this country was founded on. Obama would rather everyone just do whatever they feel like including having unhindered abortions. And Sam, what I was saying is that Obama gives all this talk of change and yeah, he has ideas, but why people are buying into them is beyond me. mostly what he does is say how bad Bush is and how he will give us hope. He's playing off the fact that a lot of people want change. At least there is a couple sane people on this forum.

You still haven't pointed out what you were referring to. Give me the facts that you founded your opinion on, Zack.

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Originally posted by iammesol You still haven't pointed out what you were referring to. Give me the facts that you founded your opinion on, Zack.

I did point it out. I've seen so many people supporting Obama not because he has these great ideas, but because they believe he's offering some kind of change. So, when I said his ideas have no substance, I was referring to the fact that he's just saying what he thinks people want to hear. Of course everyone in the Middle class would love to not have to pay taxes. Heck, maybe even throw them some money you've taken from the rich folks. People just seem to be blinded to the fact that Obama is possibly the worst candidate to ever run for President. He is the most liberal member of congress, his experience is minimal at best, he has some very shady friends, and the list goes on. It just seems like people are ignoring the facts just because they didn't like Bush and want a fresh new face. It seems everyday I see someone with Obama's face printed on their shirt. Since when was it cool to have a Presidential candidate's face on your shirt? I guess since all you had to do to run for president was be cool. I just have seen a lot of ignorance and selfishness as of late and I am tired of it.

You know who annoys me? Single issue voters. People who vote for a candidate because of their abortion stance or their race or their tax policy. These people see the world as black and white when it is clearly gray.

I'm a fiscally conservative, social liberal. There's no party for me because we have a very stupid two party system. If I have to decide between fiscal responsibility or social reform, I choose social reform. Despite living in a capitalistic society, a person's well-being is more important to me than money.

This country was founded on life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. In my opinion, in order for a person to do all three things, they need universal healthcare, minimum laws, and equal privileges: quality, inexpensive education, protection from harm, food, and again, healthcare.

That's why I'm voting Obama.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 I've seen so many people supporting Obama not because he has these great ideas, but because they believe he's offering some kind of change.... I just have seen a lot of ignorance and selfishness as of late and I am tired of it.

I will concede that point to you. There is a plethora of ignorance and naivete amongst supporters on both sides of the ticket. Even worse, many people are voting for a candidate for the wrong reasons, many of which are superficial and counterproductive; again, that goes for both parties.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 People just seem to be blinded to the fact that Obama is possibly the worst candidate to ever run for President. He is the most liberal member of congress, his experience is minimal at best, he has some very shady friends, and the list goes on.

Your gross exaggeration is not appreciated. I think Kerry was much worse. Bush 2 had more experience and now he's a strong candidate for the worst president ever. The point is experience isn't the end all be all. It's about judgement.

In terms of judgement, McCain 2008 is a shadow of his former 2000 self. Like Bush, he is surrounding himself with self-interested cronies who are ruining the country. His campaign mangers are lobbiests. One of them, until the better part of this year, was still receiving money from Fannie Mae. I think McCain is too brash and reactionary (think mortgage crisis and "suspending" his campaign" and "being close to Russia gives me foreign policy experience" Palin) for the office.

In the end, I feel sorry for whoever gets elected because there are some high expectations waiting for him at the oval office.

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Originally posted by Scottaculous Your gross exaggeration is not appreciated. I think Kerry was much worse. Bush 2 had more experience and now he's a strong candidate for the worst president ever. The point is experience isn't the end all be all. It's about judgement.

I stand by my statement. Kerry was just a dope. Obama is even more liberal than Kerry and to me that is scary. Yeah, he was bad, but Obama is much worse. Although I do admit part of what makes me angry is that people worship him and that really isn't all his fault. The sad thing is, during the primaries I was cheering for Clinton and believe me I do not like the Clintons. When a Clinton looks better than someone, you know they are bad. I like how you pull out the whole "Bush had experience, but look at how bad he was." I haven't heard that one before.

I'm not fond of one issue voters either. I do have a strong pro-life position, but that doesn't mean that's the only thing that is important to me.

We need people like Larry Lessig in office. He is one of the reasons I took the LSAT and am considering law school.
http://change-congress.org/

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 He is the most liberal member of congress, his experience is minimal at best, he has some very shady friends, and the list goes on.

That's a short list. The rest of your post was a rant which you cleared up below.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 Although I do admit part of what makes me angry is that people worship him and that really isn't all his fault.

I can see why his experience scares you. If he didn't have such a fantastic education at Harvard Law and the years of being a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago under his belt, I'd be scared too.

The shady friends thing still makes me laugh. He's publicly denounced Reverend Wright since I can remember, and even the lead federal prosecutor of the weathermen in the 70s said and I quote:

quote:

"I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers�s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child." -William C. Ibershof http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/o...r=1&oref=slogin

I'm confused by this statement:

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 Of course everyone in the Middle class would love to not have to pay taxes. Heck, maybe even throw them some money you've taken from the rich folks.

Both candidates are severely cutting taxes for everyone, sans Obama's $600 grand and above increase. Why are you linking this to Barack?



Besides the absence of anti-abortion from his campaign platform, what else bothers you?

As far as morals, I really have no interest in going into detail there, as most of it has to do with personal beliefs that I'd rather not divulge, especially with how maturely some of you are handling this now. Just leave it as I, personally, don't want the country to be headed by the guy for some of these reasons.

As far as Scott and whoever else challenging the bit I wrote about how businesses will be effected, welcome to the age old difference in point of view between people who support Republican and people who support Democrat. If you were going to understand and appreciate what I had to say on the matter, you likely wouldn't be supporting Obama. And vice versa. So be it.

And you've almost provoked another rant from me, although the thin-skinned folks with weak egos might call this selfish or racist... I want a candidate that will stand up for what America is SUPPOSED to be. Meaning, I don't want to have a house full of liberal-minded democrats that'll let anything this country stands for go down the garbage. Yeah, Republicans may have a history of being crazy on the Bible issues, but the US of A was founded as ONE NATION UNDER GOD.

HOWEVER, we are lucky enough to have a country where we are free to believe in what we want, when we want to believe it. Or, do we? Who is more likely to be approached and reprimanded in public these days, a Hindu girl participating in a religious act in public, or a Christian person saying "Praise Jesus"? People are going to fight harder to remove the Christian.

Now, what is America then? If we can't have the people born and bred here believe and participate in a religion that this nation was founded on, then what is the point of even having this nation to be proud of? We can't have our own religion without offending others, and we can't have our own customs without offending others.

Anyone else worked for a company that requested "Happy Holidays" be used instead of "Merry Christmas" as not to offend people? I'm sorry, but here in America Christmas is a traditional holiday and I'm tired of people telling me I can't be AMERICAN without offending people.

Therefore it is my personal opinion that McCain will do a better job at preserving the little bit of AMERICA we might have left, before it is offensive for a typical Caucasian person to just walk down the street!

.. so come on, tell me I haven't put any thought or have no real emotion of feeling to back my choice.

when was the last time you saw a native american celebrate christmas?

Your businesses point is true. Everyone has a different view of it.

The rest seems to me like a need to change society, not politics. The only way that is going to change is through parents passing down values generation through generation, until people are no longer offended by the practice of other religions around them.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that this nation was formed by Puritans that practiced the typical "fire and brimstone" stuff that most people would consider crazy today. It was formed because of the condemnation of those puritans by the royalty of England. The founding fathers later drafted the constitution to include the first amendment, which harbors the freedom from persecution while you practice any religion you please. To say that the US was founded as "one nation under" the Christian "God" seems a bit negating to the original point, especially since that phrase wasn't around when the country was formed. "Under God" was added in 1954.

quote:

Originally posted by Caution_BiPolar And you've almost provoked another rant from me, although the thin-skinned folks with weak egos might call this selfish or racist... I want a candidate that will stand up for what America is SUPPOSED to be. Meaning, I don't want to have a house full of liberal-minded democrats that'll let anything this country stands for go down the garbage. Yeah, Republicans may have a history of being crazy on the Bible issues, but the US of A was founded as ONE NATION UNDER GOD.

Reminds me of...

quote:

Originally posted by Caution_BiPolar As far as morals, I really have no interest in going into detail there, as most of it has to do with personal beliefs that I'd rather not divulge, especially with how maturely some of you are handling this now. Just leave it as I, personally, don't want the country to be headed by the guy for some of these reasons. As far as Scott and whoever else challenging the bit I wrote about how businesses will be effected, welcome to the age old difference in point of view between people who support Republican and people who support Democrat. If you were going to understand and appreciate what I had to say on the matter, you likely wouldn't be supporting Obama. And vice versa. So be it. And you've almost provoked another rant from me, although the thin-skinned folks with weak egos might call this selfish or racist... I want a candidate that will stand up for what America is SUPPOSED to be. Meaning, I don't want to have a house full of liberal-minded democrats that'll let anything this country stands for go down the garbage. Yeah, Republicans may have a history of being crazy on the Bible issues, but the US of A was founded as ONE NATION UNDER GOD. HOWEVER, we are lucky enough to have a country where we are free to believe in what we want, when we want to believe it. Or, do we? Who is more likely to be approached and reprimanded in public these days, a Hindu girl participating in a religious act in public, or a Christian person saying "Praise Jesus"? People are going to fight harder to remove the Christian. Now, what is America then? If we can't have the people born and bred here believe and participate in a religion that this nation was founded on, then what is the point of even having this nation to be proud of? We can't have our own religion without offending others, and we can't have our own customs without offending others. Anyone else worked for a company that requested "Happy Holidays" be used instead of "Merry Christmas" as not to offend people? I'm sorry, but here in America Christmas is a traditional holiday and I'm tired of people telling me I can't be AMERICAN without offending people. Therefore it is my personal opinion that McCain will do a better job at preserving the little bit of AMERICA we might have left, before it is offensive for a typical Caucasian person to just walk down the street! .. so come on, tell me I haven't put any thought or have no real emotion of feeling to back my choice.

Once again spot on. Sorry guys, but this is a Christian nation that was founded on those values. Not that every other religion shouldn't be respected equally, but it's sad that Christians have kind of become the outcasts. I've worked for companies who want us to say Happy Holidays. I won't do it. I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just not going to be bullied out of my beliefs. What is this country coming to that we can't even celebrate traditional holidays or follow the religion we believe in without offending someone. I believe John McCain will preserve the values this country was founded on and honestly, the values that I stand for.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104259/

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 Once again spot on. Sorry guys, but this is a Christian nation that was founded on those values.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 it's sad that Christians have kind of become the outcasts.

Which one is it?

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Originally posted by AlokGT http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104259/

haha


THEY TEWK ERR JERBSSSSSS

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Originally posted by iammesol Which one is it?

Dude, I know you aren't dense. Every comment I make you try to make me look like I'm contradicting myself. Why is that hard to understand? We are historically a Christian nation, but now Christians are being treated as outcasts. I guess what I left out was pointing out that is what we are becoming. I know you knew that, but wanted to make me look bad.

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