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-- Thomas Penton or Vengeance
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quote:

Originally posted by dannib Why is this the only real proof? So you don't think its proof that i can pick from the top of my head 30+ loops that are ripped directly from commercial tracks? These tracks being released before the vengeance cds? (even clubsounds 1 didn't come out until the very end of 2004) There is also no way on earth that they would have got clearance for all those hundreds of rips. Do you really think they are going to spent a huge amount of time and money clearing samples? This could be prooved easily enough by simply contacting the original artists. Some people just don't want to believe that they have shelled out a lot of money which contains a lot of dishonest material.

Whilst I'm not about to pretend that I know anything about the legailitys of it all I will say this.

The Vengeance sample cds are so well known throughout the industry and used by so many pros and amateurs alike, that if they were using illegal samples, I think they'd have got busted by now.

I believe many of the samples have been ripped from other tracks, no question. But I suspect that either they get permission from the various record labels first to do this, or maybe 2 second loops don't qualify as copyrightable material.

Either way, the Vengeance name is too high profile to be blatantly using ILLEGAL samples.

On topic, I like the Vengeance one shots very much. Excellent variety and always find what I'm after. These, combined with Stylus RMX and I've everything I need. I never use the loops in Vengeance as the processed sound never seems to fit properly in my tracks.

G-Con,

I will upload some files tomorrow. you will then see how blatent this ripping is. i would even go so far as to say that some loops are ripped off lower quality mp3 versions of the track. as when comparing to the original .wav track they seem slightly grainy.

Listen to the latin samples in vengeance. Do you think they went and recorded lots of afro, latin percussion etc? no, these sound ripped as well. Its so obvious. Listen to something like a sample magic release and the difference in quality is so big that its ridiculous.

dannib, there may be no need to post samples. Many, many of us have purchased the Vengeance soundsets, so you should be able to refer to them by name/number (I have VEC1 & 2, VEH1 & 2, VFX1 & 2 and VEE).

Just post the list of 30 songs that the loops have obviously been ripped out of, and the names of the Vengeance loops and we'll verify it, run one out of phase against the other and see if they cancel out, either largely or totally. Then we'll have proof.

The rips i talk of are so blatent that you wouldnt need to do a null test.

If vengeance had added even the slightest eq adjustment the file wouldn't null. you would also have to find the exact point in the track that the loop was ripped. It also wouldn't work if you and vengeance had a different master of the recording. For example compilations, radio edits etc are mastered in a completely different way.

these examples are VERY easy to hear just buy using your ear. they are blatent rips. The kick drums are just high-passed from the original tracks.

I did say "largely or totally" - I can imagine they wouldn't null, but if it's the same loop, processed with EQ, then it should still largely cancel out. The kick will still come through if it has been highpassed, but a lot of elements should get very quiet.

It's true, friends of mine heard specific hand made effects of their blackhole-releases (tiesto's label for those who don't know) coming back in the VEC samples.

Problem is there isn't much you can do about it in legal terms. It's very hard.

I don't know if the overwhelming part of Vengeance samples is sampled instead of self made. I wouldn't be surprised if most is sampled and slightly modified. The samples are very usable anyway, I don't like em much but that's a whole other story.

I just think that people should know before they buy, that the guy is blatently ripping off others material and getting so much praise and passing it off as royalty free material.

In all honesty, i could borrow a few thousand house music records off a friend, sit their for two weeks sampling every single hit and loop. Use some gentle eq and high-passing, overcompress it and have ready the next vengeance cd. Sad but true.

I also find it really wrong when some of their collections contain exact rips from old "successful" sample cds.

Sorry to sound really annoyed about this but i bought a collection of the vengeance cds based upon reccomendations and was so so disapointed. I wasted over �200 on material i realized i already had on vinyl and in various other places.

I just think that people should know before they buy, that the guy is blatently ripping off others material and getting so much praise and passing it off as royalty free material.

In all honesty, i could borrow a few thousand house music records off a friend, sit their for two weeks sampling every single hit and loop. Use some gentle eq and high-passing, overcompress it and have ready the next vengeance cd. Sad but true.

I also find it really wrong when some of their collections contain exact rips from old "successful" sample cds.

Sorry to sound really annoyed about this but i bought a collection of the vengeance cds based upon reccomendations and was so so disapointed. I wasted over �200 on material i realized i already had on vinyl and in various other places.

@storyteller

i also know a producer who isn't even signed to a record label. He posted up a track in a promotional forum. Next thing the main drum loop shows up on Vengeance Electro Essentials.

dannib- You keep talking, why not give some examples?

Dont worry i will. It takes along time going through the loops. I will often come accross a loop that i recognise thats ripped. It will then take me ages to find that vinyl or mp3 of the track. I will upload soon. Im at home now.

So funny how little people know this . I thought everybody knew.

Either way, sampling is common practice in dance music anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller So funny how little people know this . I thought everybody knew. Either way, sampling is common practice in dance music anyway.

In Rap and hip hop music also! If you want a cd sample pack make your own! For me i want to get a Roland TR-909 and Roland TR-808 and Roland TR-606 and make my own cd sample pack!
Also check This out FRANKH!
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...7&forumid=48&s=
Drums
The Perfect Kick
Airwave's Kick Tutorial [on trance.nu]
Tweak: Making Drum Tracks
Whippin' Post: Mixing Drums
SampleCraze: The Art of Drum Layering
Mr. Mystery's Percussion Tips
Sampling Kicks
Various Kick Tutorials & Techniques (read the replies!)
Booster's Ableton Bass/Kick Tutorial
Making kicks from scratch (Adobe Audition used in example)
Basic Drum Programming in NI Battery: Part 1 (By SoundMagus)
Basic Drum Programming in NI Battery: Part 2 (By SoundMagus)

yes sampling is common practice. It is however highly illegal to rip peoples songs and distribute them as a ROYALTY FREE sample library. I am sure if the distributers knew what was happening they wouldn't have anything to do with vengeance. Why would they (the big distributers) put there own business on the line?

As i said before. People should know this before buying. Vengeance should tell the user that the samples are ripped. They are cheating their customers saying that the material is all royalty free.

How can they justify selling someone elses hard work for a large sum of money? It will be tomorrow morning when i will upload some files by the way.

yes sampling is common practice. It is however highly illegal to rip peoples songs and distribute them as a ROYALTY FREE sample library. I am sure if the distributers knew what was happening they wouldn't have anything to do with vengeance. Why would they (the big distributers) put there own business on the line?

As i said before. People should know this before buying. Vengeance should tell the user that the samples are ripped. They are cheating their customers saying that the material is all royalty free.

How can they justify selling someone elses hard work for a large sum of money? It will be tomorrow morning when i will upload some files by the way.

quote:

Originally posted by dannib Vengeance should tell the user that the samples are ripped. They are cheating their customers saying that the material is all royalty free.

Yeah, nail your own coffin. Only few people are stupid enough to do that .

quote:

Originally posted by dannib They are cheating their customers saying that the material is all royalty free.

Their samples has been used in thousands of songs, i dont see anyone making a fuzz about it. If you like the samples, use them.

Ive watched several video tutorials of professional producers, and they`ve all said, if you like something you hear, take it!

quote:

if you like something you hear, take it

I have no problem with sampling. Sampling the kick drum from a track can be just the ticket and can make your track "work". If a sample from a track works already, whats the point in spending hours trying to replicate it?

The thing im trying to say about vengeance is that they are blatently lying to their customers saying that their libraries are royalty free. There is a difference between sampling a kick drum from a track and re-using it within your own track and ripping many full loops from a variety of tracks and selling the results making potentialy hundreds of thousands of $.

Have you identified some of the ripped loops yet?

They ARE royalty free.

I didn't have much time this morning but i managed to very quickly find 7 full rips by just going through VEH1 for about 10 mins. I found many many more while browsing through but these tracks i am about to post were the only ones i had at hand on my personal computer. The files can be downloaded below:

Info:

VEH release date: 4th November 2005.


Rip 1 = Bodyrockers I like the way (junior jack remix) 28 Feb 2005. Compared to VEH1 house Loop 040.

Rip 2 = Eric Prydz - Woz Not Woz released 2004. Compared to VEH1 House Loop 097.

Rip 3 = Hardsoul - Back Together, released 2003. Compared to VEH1 House Loop 032.

Rip 4 = Mambana - Libre (axwell mix), released 2003. Compared to VEH1 House Loop 035.

Rip 5 = Freaks - The Creeps (steve bug remix), released 2003. Compared to VEH1 House Loop 069.

Rip 6 = Stonebridge - Put em high. Released 2003. Compared to VEH1 House Loop 154.

Rip 7 = Ueberschall House Musique Sample library Syn127shot_phever. Released 2002/2003. Compared to VEH1 FX 29.

Link to downloads:

vengeance rips

Hopefully this will shed some light on the fact. If you want i can pick out many many many more for all the vengeace cds i own. There are so many that it is stupid.

There are also more rips from old ueberschall cds like the one above. Blatent rips and very dishonest.



vengeance rips

quote:

They ARE royalty free

lol. NO. See above for proof.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle They ARE royalty free.

In a sense yes, and no. No the samples are not royalty free, they are protected by law because they are intellectual property of somebody else. The fact that Vengeance publishes the samples as royalty free does not does not change that as Vengeance doesn't own any rights on the taken/sampled material. And yes, in fact they are royalty free, because nobody would try suing as it is a tough case, unless all producers would join forces and decided to do a mass appeal on Vengeance it's highly improbable you would stand a chance.

Great post Dannib. I couldn't be bothered to make the effort.

those examples seem pretty clear tome. Pretty amazing but then i guess most people seem to do this.

Yes they are very clear. Does anyone want me to upload any more? I have found loads more.

Do you still think they ARE royalty free Subtle?

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