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quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien What a waste of time imo. Shouldn't really have to rely on 'sync' buttons and beatgrids to mix well.

Funny that you say that because the whole point of allowing the computer to beatmatch for you is to SAVE time. It allows you to use all that time to get creative in your mixes. Wether you do that or not is a whole different thread.

And beatgridding doesn't take much time anyways, as long as tracks are at 320kbps you can pretty much grid it in 10 seconds or less. I've even done it while playing a set with no problems at all.

quote:

Originally posted by woscar99 Funny that you say that because the whole point of allowing the computer to beatmatch for you is to SAVE time. It allows you to use all that time to get creative in your mixes. Wether you do that or not is a whole different thread. And beatgridding doesn't take much time anyways, as long as tracks are at 320kbps you can pretty much grid it in 10 seconds or less. I've even done it while playing a set with no problems at all.

any decent dj can beatmatch in 10 seconds or less...and if not u can move ur pitch slider on the fly to adjust...so that argument above is false.

u can never justify automatic sync buttons...its like a racecar driver trying to justify driving automatic instead of manual transmission

quote:

Originally posted by Imu any decent dj can beatmatch in 10 seconds or less...and if not u can move ur pitch slider on the fly to adjust...so that argument above is false.

not 10 seconds, a bit longer, but still... what's the point of beatmatching?

quote:

Originally posted by Imu u can never justify automatic sync buttons...its like a racecar driver trying to justify driving automatic instead of manual transmission

bullshit analogy.


anyway, this thread is about the TC - take your "beating the dead horse" about 'real mixing' and 'cheating' elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers not 10 seconds, a bit longer, but still... what's the point of beatmatching? bullshit analogy. anyway, this thread is about the TC - take your "beating the dead horse" about 'real mixing' and 'cheating' elsewhere.

if you don't understand "the point" then you've probably been pressing the sync button too often for your own good.

and I happen to think this topic is quite relevant to the numark TC and about why I personally think its a bad idea to start with it. so thank you very much but i'll post whatever i want, wherever i want.

quote:

Originally posted by Imu if you don't understand "the point" then you've probably been pressing the sync button too often for your own good. and I happen to think this topic is quite relevant to the numark TC and about why I personally think its a bad idea to start with it. so thank you very much but i'll post whatever i want, wherever i want.

Except I learned to mix on a shitty all-in-one Numark unit with no EQ and 0.1% pitch resolution, so guess what - I understand the purpose quite well. Yet no one ever comes out and says it, they just say it's cheating (real purpose to *learning* beatmatching is to know what you're doing, to train your ear, to be able to save your ass when sync fails - once you're past that, there's really no need for it).

I also understand that there are many 'DJs' who have their heads up their asses. You know, in the '60s-'70s they had no crossfaders and no EQs and their records were 3-minute-long 7" with no intros and outros and you couldn't sip on your drink that easily while your track was developing. So, in relation, beatmatching and mixers and EQ and DJ-friendly tracks and tracks that do build-ups for you instead of you structuring your set and all that jazz... all of it is cheating.

Bottom line is, we're playing other people's music, so whether we use 'real skill' and nudge the pitch fader a little or we write the BPM info and then do a simple math calculation for the BPM (oooh, cheating! and counters are evil!), or press the sync button... we are playing OTHER PEOPLE'S MUSIC. To make people dance. So who the fuck cares how we do it? I'm pretty sure none of those people on the floor do, it's only the DJs and the elitist trainspotters.


And on topic: Lately, I've found the TC to be a little too cramped for what I want to do. It's possible to do it with the TC, but it'd be a pain in the ass, so I've been looking at adding a Korg NanoPad to control cue points and loops / loop sizes. $59 US and gets decent reviews.

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers Except I learned to mix on a shitty all-in-one Numark unit with no EQ and 0.1% pitch resolution, so guess what - I understand the purpose quite well. Yet no one ever comes out and says it, they just say it's cheating (real purpose to *learning* beatmatching is to know what you're doing, to train your ear, to be able to save your ass when sync fails - once you're past that, there's really no need for it). I also understand that there are many 'DJs' who have their heads up their asses. You know, in the '60s-'70s they had no crossfaders and no EQs and their records were 3-minute-long 7" with no intros and outros and you couldn't sip on your drink that easily while your track was developing. So, in relation, beatmatching and mixers and EQ and DJ-friendly tracks and tracks that do build-ups for you instead of you structuring your set and all that jazz... all of it is cheating. Bottom line is, we're playing other people's music, so whether we use 'real skill' and nudge the pitch fader a little or we write the BPM info and then do a simple math calculation for the BPM (oooh, cheating! and counters are evil!), or press the sync button... we are playing OTHER PEOPLE'S MUSIC. To make people dance. So who the fuck cares how we do it? I'm pretty sure none of those people on the floor do, it's only the DJs and the elitist trainspotters. And on topic: Lately, I've found the TC to be a little too cramped for what I want to do. It's possible to do it with the TC, but it'd be a pain in the ass, so I've been looking at adding a Korg NanoPad to control cue points and loops / loop sizes. $59 US and gets decent reviews.

ur right it is to train ur ear...and yes fair point i agree with some of what u said. but in defense of us elitist trainspotters (lol), pressing a sync button still doesn't give me the feeling that beatmatching in 10 seconds does...also, the main problem is that yes once u have trained ur ear, syncing is fine...but most new DJs today start off with syncing and never learn to beatmatch...that sync button is the single button that allows so many talentless individuals to call themselves DJs

and as for the TC being cramped...I agree...but have u tried using it with traktor instead of numark cue? or use vestax vci-300...i think its a much more comprehensive version of the TC

quote:

Originally posted by Imu any decent dj can beatmatch in 10 seconds or less...and if not u can move ur pitch slider on the fly to adjust...so that argument above is false. u can never justify automatic sync buttons...its like a racecar driver trying to justify driving automatic instead of manual transmission

Just had to take a minute to laugh at this.

quote:

Originally posted by Imu ur right it is to train ur ear...and yes fair point i agree with some of what u said. but in defense of us elitist trainspotters (lol), pressing a sync button still doesn't give me the feeling that beatmatching in 10 seconds does...also, the main problem is that yes once u have trained ur ear, syncing is fine...but most new DJs today start off with syncing and never learn to beatmatch...that sync button is the single button that allows so many talentless individuals to call themselves DJs and as for the TC being cramped...I agree...but have u tried using it with traktor instead of numark cue? or use vestax vci-300...i think its a much more comprehensive version of the TC

Well, so many "DJs" and "producers" have no clue about anything and still call themselves that... blaming it on the sync button is just not right. Also, I LOVE the visual of vinyl spinning, the feel of the record... but the pain of carrying it around, the convenience of having 1000s of tracks on a laptop with pre-set cue points and almost instant load and preview... call it cheating, but it's just so much more convenient than the feel of the records (yes, I know there's serato, but I would have to shell out $500 for serato, $200+ for an OK mixer, and $600 or so for decks)

I got the TC because mousing around in Traktor was a pain in the ass. VCI-300 would be good for a starting DJ. I'd need to sell my TC and external sound card though.

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers I got the TC because mousing around in Traktor was a pain in the ass. VCI-300 would be good for a starting DJ. I'd need to sell my TC and external sound card though.

Yeah, I think the only downside to the VCI is the price tag

quote:

Originally posted by woscar99 Funny that you say that because the whole point of allowing the computer to beatmatch for you is to SAVE time. It allows you to use all that time to get creative in your mixes. Wether you do that or not is a whole different thread. And beatgridding doesn't take much time anyways, as long as tracks are at 320kbps you can pretty much grid it in 10 seconds or less. I've even done it while playing a set with no problems at all.

I've been using Traktor long enough for myself and uderstand perfectly how the gridding works. I just think its an extra chore to go through the analysis of each track. And believe me to have it done properly takes more than 10 seconds.
I also use Ableton and would rather use that program to warp my tracks and 'sync' mix. I use Traktor with a controller because it has a more authentic DJ feel to it compared to playing on Ableton. So I still think setting beatgrids in Traktor is a waste of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien I've been using Traktor long enough for myself and uderstand perfectly how the gridding works. I just think its an extra chore to go through the analysis of each track. And believe me to have it done properly takes more than 10 seconds. I also use Ableton and would rather use that program to warp my tracks and 'sync' mix. I use Traktor with a controller because it has a more authentic DJ feel to it compared to playing on Ableton. So I still think setting beatgrids in Traktor is a waste of time.

Gridding in Traktor is far, far simpler than warping in Ableton.

Provided that the track isn't BPM-drifting to begin with.

I realize that it's much simpler, but I find that I have no real need to do it. It's still very easy to mix well and most of my tracks are automatically gridded well enough for my liking and needs. I really only find the sync buttons handy for fine tuning the tempo as the pitch sliders often jump too far between increments.
I fully understand what is being said, that the tracks will stay in sync if they are gridded the right way, but to me there's something I do enjoy in having manual control over the tempo of the tracks in the mix and that if I wanted to mix tracks with the computer keeping them in sync, I prefer to use Ableton simply because there are more possibilities.
I'm not saying that you guys are wrong, that's just my opinion and how I feel about it.
Back to the topic though, I was actually looking at getting a Total Control, but my brother ended up giving me his BCD2000 which works well enough for me. (Although I did have a hell of a time configuring it to work with Traktor.) They look more pleasing than the BCD and from what I can tell work much the same if not better.

OK, I think I'm gonna go for the VCI-100...It appears to be better built and works better. I got a really good deal on it also

Choice bro! I would if you're getting a good deal. Quality is always worth that extra bit imo.

quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien Choice bro! I would if you're getting a good deal. Quality is always worth that extra bit imo.

Yeah! I found a brand new vci-100 for $350. They had it at a music store for a year and never sold it, and had it on sale.

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