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-- Defend your genre
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quote:

Originally posted by SMC I don't know, i'm not the one who made the claim psytrance is "well produced". But more importantly, wtf is "well made and exact"? How does one establish whether a sound is "well made" and "exact"? Based on which criteria?

By well made and exact, I mean they each sound well tuned and fit in the song well... so for instance you might fine tune the eq's on the kick to exactly the right amount, or in the case of melody it feels as if its exactly spot on, and you can allmost feel where the melody is going to go next after the first listen of the song, simply because it feels so natural (that's pretty rare, and a rather extreme case I guess).

Anyway, what I mean is, where all the elements play an important role, and feel exactly right for the song, because they have been changed a lot specifically for the song, not because the producer was just using a bunch of presets.

So I guess deep, but not necassarily complicated.

By well made sounds I also somewhat meant thick/nice sounding sounds, which are powerful. So for instance a 303, or really well programmed patch rather then a really plasticey softsynth (not that softsynths are inherently plasticey)... although theres no reason why that necassarily means warm instead of artificial, some really good programming of fm synths can make something that sounds really dark and artificial.

So anyway, I'm suggesting that psy has better programmed synths, and that the whole settings changing along with melody thing also adds a layer of depth, and that it just something thats done just because thats what the genre does, its just something thats highly underused. If the genre is meant to be specifically minimal, thats another thing.

I'm agreeing with SMC and all the points he made

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter By well made and exact, I mean they each sound well tuned and fit in the song well... so for instance you might fine tune the eq's on the kick to exactly the right amount, or in the case of melody it feels as if its exactly spot on, and you can allmost feel where the melody is going to go next after the first listen of the song, simply because it feels so natural (that's pretty rare, and a rather extreme case I guess). Anyway, what I mean is, where all the elements play an important role, and feel exactly right for the song, because they have been changed a lot specifically for the song, not because the producer was just using a bunch of presets. So I guess deep, but not necassarily complicated. By well made sounds I also somewhat meant thick/nice sounding sounds, which are powerful. So for instance a 303, or really well programmed patch rather then a really plasticey softsynth (not that softsynths are inherently plasticey)... although theres no reason why that necassarily means warm instead of artificial, some really good programming of fm synths can make something that sounds really dark and artificial. So anyway, I'm suggesting that psy has better programmed synths, and that the whole settings changing along with melody thing also adds a layer of depth, and that it just something thats done just because thats what the genre does, its just something thats highly underused. If the genre is meant to be specifically minimal, thats another thing.

So, in other words "well made" means that you like it. Now i get it, thank you for clearing that up.

You write too much. Writing more doesn't make you seem less stupid. And stop adding shit to your post multiple times after you've submitted it.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN I'm agreeing with SMC and all the points he made

Is he right? Maybe.

Is he a huge dick? Absolutely.

quote:

Originally posted by SMC So, in other words "well made" means that you like it. Now i get it, thank you for clearing that up.

Well, somewhat, what makes anything better? You can't really look at how well the elements fit together or how good a bassline sound is on paper.

quote:

Originally posted by SMC You write too much. Writing more doesn't make you seem less stupid. And stop adding shit to your post multiple times after you've submitted it.

Fair call, and I double up a lot too, and yes... thats sort of what happens when I have a headache and can't think clearly, which is 90% of the time, sorry about that.

quote:

Originally posted by parafrNalia Is he right? Maybe. Is he a huge dick? Absolutely.

Its called TA

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter ... and while its not strictly dancey, neither is drum n bass.

I remember when I didn't understand techno. I couldn't figure out why anyone liked it, what it's appeal was, but finally one night it came to me. It's much different than melodic music that i was used to and the way you get into it. I found it was more about letting the sounds hit you, than sinking into them.
But as for house that you don't understand. Find the pleasure in a nice solid groove... house music can often seem like it just keeps chugging along, but then you don't hafta go through all the up and downs that other music offers. And plus the basslines can get oh sooo funky!

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Well, somewhat, what makes anything better? You can't really look at how well the elements fit together or how good a bassline sound is on paper.

These qualities you name here are too vague, though. You can find well produced music with elements fitting well together in almost any genre, apart from happy hardcore and eurodance maybe... hell, even in eurodance.

What does this say about psy-trance specifically?

Re: Defend your genre

quote:

Originally posted by ziptnf We all know by now that everyone who listens to EDM is assigned a particular genre.

?!

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Well, somewhat, what makes anything better? You can't really look at how well the elements fit together or how good a bassline sound is on paper.

No, i guess you can't, but remember that i was looking for an explanation as to why someone would claim psytrance is inherently "well produced". Your personal liking for the style doesn't justify such an assertion. Fine tuning sounds and EQing kicks is hardly unique for psytrance and saying things fit together, feel natural, sound right, sounds thick, warm or whatever attribute you like is something we all can do in reference to any music of our liking.

Also it's clumsy to make such a pretentious statement about an entire genre, as if all music within it is of equal quality. Especially with a genre as riddled with shit as psytrance. I like good psytrance myself, i've listened to it a lot and it has never struck me as particularly intelligent, on the contrary i think the style as a whole leans towards the unsubtle and mindless, which is probably why it attracts so many shit producers.

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter I haven't really heard that much of non sequenced ambient, I'm sure it exists, but its a vast minority.

does the phrase "field recording" ring any bell at all? no?

Re: Re: Defend your genre

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery ?!

Finally, was waiting for someone to "say" something about that.

Wow, this thread kind of exploded overnight.

This wasn't meant to turn into a fucking flame war about which genre is better. Not ALL Psytrance is "well produced", which I'm sure Darkarbiter means in terms of sound quality, compression, equalization, and "well structured" meaning a nice collection of sounds and melodies and their locations in the track.

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael Finally, was waiting for someone to "say" something about that.

As far as that goes, what I meant was that a lot of people who listen to EDM listen to one genre in particular, or "prefer" one genre over all others. I probably shouldn't have used the word "assigned", because many people listen to a lot of styles of EDM, but I meant a lot of people favor one over the rest.

SMC, you're being a huge dick. Stop looking down on people and giving them shit just because they don't like Ambient. I doubt Darkarbiter ever threatened or trashed your genre of music, so keep it civil and stop taking things so fucking personally.

I dont think i have a preferred genre so to speak.

For me its about the timing of the day and the mood.

Say while driving to work i'd play some full on techno to wake me up.. lunchtime drives would be a mixture of some m83 or some rock..evenings would be usually some downtempo sigur ros/bjork or sting.. and night would be my usual house intake.

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Well its certainly strongly associated with edm... and while its not strictly dancey, neither is drum n bass. I haven't really heard that much of non sequenced ambient, I'm sure it exists, but its a vast minority.

dnb is very dancey.

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter fail. Full on somewhat compared to other stuff, however theres certainly much worse, and the simple fact that its usually over 6 minutes means the songs have to have a well layed out structure and idea to keep them interesting for that long.

Erm... just about all dance music is over 6 minutes in length, so this is a particularly redundant classification of structure.

A house or a techno dj will mix up genres much more than a psy trance dj. I'm not the biggest fan of psy trance so i don't listen to it.

nothing to defend really.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak A house or a techno dj will mix up genres much more than a psy trance dj. I'm not the biggest fan of psy trance so i don't listen to it. nothing to defend really.

House and Techno DJ's do mix up the genres of their songs a lot, no doubt, but I was originally looking for a technical/musical explanation of why people like House, which I still haven't read. Everybody has different tastes, and Darkarbiter and I like psy because it's well structured, well produced, and takes lots of skill to create some of the sounds. "Defend" may not be the proper term, but at least talk about the qualities of House that you like.

psy is too intense for most people, myself included!


love it on the beach, in the jungle, goa etc... but these places are where psy was made for- abandoned hotels and warehouses, weird ass forests by the beach, not clubs and radio.

in context psy is great.

house can just fit in more places than psy, wider context

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak A house or a techno dj will mix up genres much more than a psy trance dj.

Yeah, because house and techno are too shitty to be played exclusively.

Or maybe people just do not want to get bombarded by stuff that sounds the same for 4 hours?

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak Or maybe people just do not want to get bombarded by stuff that sounds the same for 4 hours?

The same could be argued for House/Techno...

Even house and techno djs will throw in some throw your guns up trance.

Music needs more drums, and less overproduced synth arpeggios and pads. I agree with the person who said they couldn't understand Techno at first. I couldn't really either when I was listening to trance. But then one day it hit me like a ton of bricks so hard that I don't listen to any trance and very little house. I used to listen to a lot of house and before that trance.

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