TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Coalition Government - in Canada
Pages (2): « 1 [2]

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer riiiiight so that no fuckin work gets done in the house for a month.

Want some water with that foot?

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/housechamber...1&Parl=39&Ses=1


id-10-t

bump

This whole fiasco is playing well for Conservatives, I think. The unholy alliance, plus the obvious-looking fight for the throne is a joke. What do they expect to fix anyway? Is this really the best time for that, and is there a chance that the coalition will even get anything accomplished? I dont think that the depression (not the recession) isn't going away just yet.

Dont get me wrong - I never liked the Conservatives. But I think they will gain out of this. Dion is a lunatic. This situation benefits NDP and Bloc, but I think it sinks Liberals even lower than before.

And whats even more sad, is that Green Party is joining this mess. Elisabeth May wants to get a piece of the pie, too.

I look at it this way - Detroit wins the Stanley Cup, because they were the just merely a slightly bit better team than others, then runner-ups gang up with the best-of team of their own and dethrone Detroit.

quote:

The fallout over the crisis has sparked torment not seen in Canadian politics since 1926, when a coalition government seized power from the ruling Liberal Party. The current crisis points to further deterioration of the country's once-stable parliamentary democracy, which has been unraveling for several years in step with party fragmentation.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1205/p04s01-wogn.html

And you all thought the American Presidential two-party system was inferior.

Fuckin sweet!!!!Glad to see Ignatieff as the new Liberal leader.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Fuckin sweet!!!!Glad to see Ignatieff as the new Liberal leader.

I'm just glad it's not Rae - that would have been like trading one clod for another...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r If the coalition succeeds the electoral backlash will be huge come next election. With the Liberals jumping in bed with the NDP, they automatically pull themselves to the left by default, leaving the center and the right pretty open... We just had an election and if there is one think you can count on, it will be a lot of pissed off people (ie the MAJORITY of the electorate) that didn't vote for this fiasco. This isn't what we voted for! Jack Layton as Finance?? God help us all... I can already see the GST going back up 7% to pay for all the wonderful nanny state programs he must have dancing in his head.

Yea, that's right...I called it

quote:

OTTAWA � Stephen Harper's minority government has extended its lease on life, winning approval in principle Tuesday for a federal budget that will plunge the country into deep deficit. The big-spending budget aimed at stimulating the flagging economy passed easily by a vote of 211-91, with NDP and Bloc Qu�b�cois voting No. Liberal MPs � with the exception of six Newfoundlanders who were given a one-time pass to break party ranks � supported the Tory budget despite deep misgivings. Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff chose not to risk forcing an election � which his party is ill-prepared to fight and which Canadians don't want � in the midst of an economic crisis. However, Liberals warn they may defeat the budget in future should periodic progress reports show it's not working as intended. The reports, the first to be delivered in March, were demanded by Mr. Ignatieff as the price for his party's support. The budget includes plans to spend $40-billion over two years on measures to kick start the economy, including infrastructure, social housing, home retrofits, parks, tourism, railways and Arctic research. It also includes $2-billion in income tax cuts. In the process, the budget projects the government will rack up towering deficits of $86-billion over five years � the first time in 13 years that Canada has plunged into red ink. Some economists doubt the stimulus package will revive the economy and many predict the deficits will be much bigger � and last considerably longer � than the government hopes. Moreover, some Conservative militants are incensed that Mr. Harper has abandoned his conservative beliefs to secure Liberal support, after coming within a hair of being toppled over last November's stay-the-course fiscal update. But while Mr. Harper has reversed himself on a number of fronts, he refused to budge on Mr. Ignatieff's request to postpone budget measures that could cost Newfoundland and Labrador as much as $1.6-billion over three years. His flat refusal put Mr. Ignatieff's ability to control the fractious Liberal caucus to its first test. Faced with a mini-revolt by at least four of his six Newfoundland MPs, Mr. Ignatieff decided to allow them to break ranks and register a protest vote against the budget. �I decided to permit them in the budget vote tonight a one-time vote of protest to signal their displeasure � and my displeasure � at these unilateral actions which in my view weaken our federation, cause strains in our federation at a time when Canadians should be pulling together,� Mr. Ignatieff announced prior to the vote. The decision allows Mr. Ignatieff to avoid the dual daggers of disciplining his MPs and alienating Newfoundland voters. However, it prompted sneers from the NDP and Bloc, who had wanted to defeat the Tories and pursue an agreement � struck last November by Mr. Ignatieff's predecessor, St�phane Dion � to form a coalition government. Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe said Mr. Ignatieff showed �a total lack of leadership.� He questioned the double standard of allowing Newfoundland MPs to oppose the budget while forcing Quebec Liberals to support it even though their province has also objected to unilateral measures to cut its equalization payments. NDP Leader Jack Layton said Newfoundlanders won't forget that Liberals allowed the budget to pass, no matter what damage it wreaks on their province. �This little bit of window dressing isn't going to fool anybody,� he predicted. �I think [Newfoundlanders] will have good memories that they couldn't count on Mr. Ignatieff himself and the Liberal party to stand up for them.� However, Premier Danny Williams, who had called on Liberals to vote against the budget, hailed Mr. Ignatieff's decision. �He shows real courage this early in his leadership to be making a move like that. The MPs are being allowed to do what they need to do on behalf of their province and I think the fact that a national leader recognizes that is very important.� Mr. Williams accused the Prime Minister of being divisive, a threat to national unity, and of pitting provinces against each other. He also suggested that Mr. Harper is using the budget to retaliate for the �Anybody-But-Conservative� campaign Mr. Williams launched during last fall's federal election. �I'm a big boy. I understand that if you give an elbow, you're going to get an elbow back. But you don't get hit over the head with a sledgehammer, and that's what this guy does,� Mr. Williams said. �The Conservative party has to dump Harper or otherwise they're going to find themselves back in a phone booth with a caucus of a couple of people.� Newfoundland's objection stems from a federal decision to cap the rate of growth of equalization payments to have-not provinces. The province no longer collects equalization but Mr. Williams charges that the change in the equalization formula reduces related payments under the 1985 Atlantic Accord, which determines Newfoundland's share of offshore oil revenues. Mr. Williams has pegged Newfoundland's loss at $1.5-billion over three years. Mr. Ignatieff said a briefing for opposition MPs by federal finance officials Monday suggests the reduction might be more in the range of $1-billion.

>>Source<<

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1205/p04s01-wogn.html And you all thought the American Presidential two-party system was inferior.

Well that's a bit over the top

The beauty (or maybe the uselessness depending on who you talk to) of our system is that despite all the crap they yell at each other in the house of commons, very little changes when they take power.

The differences amongst our parties are significant in a way, but they all move to the center when they get in power. The same thing happens in the US to an extent but I find the contrast between Republican and Democrat far greater than Liberal and Conservative up here.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Yea, that's right...I called it >>Source<<

Well, that only seems to be the standard "Liberals can't hope to do well in a general election" attitude that we've been seeing all along this past while, even before the coalition talks.

That highlighted comment in the article has nothing to do with the coalition per se, or about how things would go in the next election if there was a coalition. It's strictly about the Liberal party's chances in an election.

Note the wording in the article (emphasis mine):

quote:

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff chose not to risk forcing an election � which his party is ill-prepared to fight and which Canadians don't want � in the midst of an economic crisis.

Nowhere does it mention NDP or Bloc. It's his party, viz., the Liberals. Again, the fear is not to do with any coalition backlash, but rather with how the Liberal party stands vs. the Tories.

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode Well, that only seems to be the standard "Liberals can't hope to do well in a general election" attitude that we've been seeing all along this past while, even before the coalition talks. That highlighted comment in the article has nothing to do with the coalition per se, or about how things would go in the next election if there was a coalition. It's strictly about the Liberal party's chances in an election. Note the wording in the article (emphasis mine): Nowhere does it mention NDP or Bloc. It's his party, viz., the Liberals. Again, the fear is not to do with any coalition backlash, but rather with how the Liberal party stands vs. the Tories.

Exactly!

Second post in the thread...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Wow, talk about desperate! The Liberals are in NO condition to even consider this when they can't even run their own party...they're still in shambles.

Appearantly some people didn't seem to think so but obviously the Liberal party itself even knows when to hold their cards...

I'm wondering though if it had more to do with being associated with the Bloc party or letting them (the Bloc) get away with their concessions and for what? The potential to be obliterated by the public in the next election?
Even if they had joined the collition and shot down the government the potential public backlash was too high to take that risk.
They did the right move IMHO both for their party and for the public.
Simply hold the government accountable for the budget that was verified and passed.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.