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-- A list of "intelligent" EDM tracks
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So it appears the general consensus is that there is no such thing as intelligent music.

But I ask you this: In the same way you weed through the "dull" tracks on digital music sites to find the tunes that are "good" to you, can you weed through your "good" tunes and pick out the ones that are the most "intelligent?"

Not always intelligent but always complex: Psytrance

quote:

Originally posted by s3nate Never intelligent but always complicated: Psytrance

fxd

harsh noise

quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes So it appears the general consensus is that there is no such thing as intelligent music. But I ask you this: In the same way you weed through the "dull" tracks on digital music sites to find the tunes that are "good" to you, can you weed through your "good" tunes and pick out the ones that are the most "intelligent?"

"Intelligent" in terms of what? Like they have a complicated structure? Or intelligent is just another term for quality?

yoji

i think the term "quality" gets thrown around to loosely describe music that people like. but we'll have a hard time trying to define "intelligent" without exemplifying stuff to our own tastes - so it would make sense to say that discussing criteria across genres and sub-genres won't work.

there is such a thing as intelligent music, but at a level only transmissible between the artist and the listener. the consensus within this thread is that we agree to disagree regardless of taste, so the idea maybe applies less between listeners.

one person's distinction is another's pretense.

4'33" by John Cage.

quote:

Originally posted by sgb476 project-k is correct there. i perceive "intelligent" music to be for the mind, and to trigger emotions and thought process without necessarily narcotic assistance: henrik b - logos [truesoul] duplex - vivid array [frantic flowers] "intelligent" music doesn't really need to be complex in structure either - take for example the concept of reduced techno (not "minimal"), in which every single sound is integral to the track. anything that does not need to be there is not included. shed - flat axe [ostgut ton] robert hood - side effect [music man] substance - relish [scion versions] "intelligent" music can simply be perfect for what it is; be it a loop, tool, or soundtrack for a particular time or place. maurizio - m4 [m] patrice scott - raw fusion [sistrum] and "intelligent" music doesn't need to be mellow either. music with soul AND some punch is bang on the money. future beat investigators - dark suite [raw fusion]

Best response so far. Don't know why this has to be a big argument. Thanks for keeping it simple.

Edit: Oh, is that Shed track anything like the one in my sig? The Well Done edit is extremely hypnotic.

Actually, I can think of one that's conceptually smarter than just about any other record I've ever heard:

The Orb - Orb's Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld.

quote:

Originally posted by sgb476 there is such a thing as intelligent music, but at a level only transmissible between the artist and the listener. the consensus within this thread is that we agree to disagree regardless of taste, so the idea maybe applies less between listeners. one person's distinction is another's pretense.

Yes. There is no right or wrong answer that I'm trying to decipher out of this thread. I'm just trying to pick at people's brain--not to judge, just to discover.

quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes Best response so far. Don't know why this has to be a big argument. Thanks for keeping it simple. Edit: Oh, is that Shed track anything like the one in my sig? The Well Done edit is extremely hypnotic.

Thats probably because you have similar tastes. A lot of this techno is actually "dumb" to me (and this doesn't mean that i don't like it, i like the deep and detroit-influenced stuff you mentioned). Its nice as a hypnotic and deep kind of dance music but i can't see how that makes it intelligent. The musical structure of many modern EDM is extremely simple to theorize anything as intelligent. Maybe the only "intelligence" comes from the sounds and samples used, but i can't see, or rather, hear it.




The kind of "intelligence" people mean probably derives from consensus which states that anything which is not mainstream and sounds a bit "unconventional" is "intelligent". But "unconventional" doesn't necessarily mean "intelligent". At least in terms of all possible factors which could be related to "intelligence", the skills needed, the degree of expertise, the prototypicallity of the idea,the clever unconventional mix of ideas, the musical complexity, the aesthetic quality of melodies (if they exist) etc. Sure some forms of techno can score high in prototypicallity, but are unconventional only in comparison to other forms of EDM. It is still techno and it is still prone to the same inherent constraints of all EDM, at least if it is viewed from an out-of-EDM perspective. Maybe someone can use it only in a "within-EDM context" but paradoxically, it sounds "stupid" to use it as a term to describe music.

quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes Yes. There is no right or wrong answer that I'm trying to decipher out of this thread. I'm just trying to pick at people's brain--not to judge, just to discover.

Fair enough then

quote:

Originally posted by woscar Aphex Twin

http://www.discogs.com/release/3666

∆Mi−1=−α ∑ Di[η] ∑F ji[η−1]+Fexti[η−1]
η=1 j∈C{i}

Talking bout intelligence

Tribal Tech House that always changes.. awesome stuff

quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes Best response so far. Don't know why this has to be a big argument. Thanks for keeping it simple. Edit: Oh, is that Shed track anything like the one in my sig? The Well Done edit is extremely hypnotic.

cheers!

the shed track i mentioned doesn't sound too much like well done, but they both have that raw berlin-engineered signature sound of his.


@ petran: i, along with a few others have laid our cards on the table. so i'd be interested to see your list of intelligent tracks - if you believe in the concept!

quote:

Originally posted by ThaMaestro http://www.discogs.com/release/3666 ∆Mi−1=−α ∑ Di[η] ∑F ji[η−1]+Fexti[η−1] η=1 j∈C{i} Talking bout intelligence

i could never figure out what that means!

quote:

Originally posted by sgb476 @ petran: i, along with a few others have laid our cards on the table. so i'd be interested to see your list of intelligent tracks - if you believe in the concept!

IDM lol.(and the broader "elctronica" genre-and some downtempo) Stuff like Boards of Canada,Bola, Autechre, Aphex Twin, Arovane, Global Communications, Apparat,Telefon Tel-Aviv, Proem, m-Ziq etc.

Some artists that i listen to lately and do some innovative and sweet stuff are Boy is Fiction, Helios, Arms and Sleepers... check Boy is Fiction's myspace page


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cf...iendID=96042225


He is amazing imo. He blends various stuff like clicks and glitches with piano and orchestral passages, epic emotional post-rockish build-ups and at times industrial sounds.







Ofcourse you could argue that this stuff is not EDM and you would probably be right. To tell you the truth i can't see any "intelligence" in any pure EDM genre such as house, techno or trance. Some Techno and Progressive could be the best candidates but still...

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Originally posted by PETRAN He is amazing imo. He blends various stuff like clicks and glitches with piano and orchestral passages, epic emotional post-rockish build-ups and at times industrial sounds. Ofcourse you could argue that this stuff is not EDM and you would probably be right. To tell you the truth i can't see any "intelligence" in any pure EDM genre such as house, techno or trance. Some Techno and Progressive could be the best candidates but still...

Hmmm, would your opinion about it change if that would have a beat and awesome bassline?
Maybe you wouldn't even have listened?

IMO many tracks maybe would sound intelligent when some things are removed.

I recognize some things in "if you hear me fall" from older trance tracks.

I'm going to bed now, and must says that last one is a really nice relaxing track to end the day with.
I love piano's by the way

quote:

Originally posted by sgb476 i could never figure out what that means!

my background in mechanical engineering should make me capable of telling you ... but i fail . no idea what it means, and i dont feel like doing the math

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Thats probably because you have similar tastes. A lot of this techno is actually "dumb" to me (and this doesn't mean that i don't like it, i like the deep and detroit-influenced stuff you mentioned). Its nice as a hypnotic and deep kind of dance music but i can't see how that makes it intelligent. The musical structure of many modern EDM is extremely simple to theorize anything as intelligent. Maybe the only "intelligence" comes from the sounds and samples used, but i can't see, or rather, hear it.

I haven't heard any of those tracks he mentioned. It was the best response because he named some tracks he thought were intelligent, shared a bit why he thought so, and carried on. That's all I was asking for. Again, I just wanted a general consensus of what people view as "intelligent" so we can see if any patterns emerge.

And you have provided a reason for why you think intelligent music does not exist. Thank you. Although I disagree, you are only referring to 'techno.' I enjoy techno, but that is not my genre of choice. So it would be less easy for me to find particular 'intelligent' techno, naturally.

Another tune I would classify as intelligent would be Moshic's "The Myth of Osiris (part one)." I don't know if there is any other track that does a better job at taking you into a fantastical, mythical world for 9 minutes and making you believe it actually exists in some far-reaching corner of the universe.

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K I use 'intelligent' in the context of music that isn't too shallow, has artistic and cultural value beyond mainstream commercial appeal. It's not really meant to be elitist, just a word to describe thought-driven music as opposed to music designed to be as catchy and easily digestible as possible.

Bang.

I feel very at home using the tag "intelligent" for this reason. It doesn't imply anything about the listener, only the creator. Just like you could say a scientific theory is "genius", you're implying that the idea or concept is clever and so is the person who created it; you're not saying anything about the person reviewing it.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think it's more that describing music as "intelligent" has inherently elitist connotations, as it implies that you're intelligent for listening to it and also that other music out there must be unintelligent by comparison. Since music has no intellect, you're either being metaphorical or (more likely) deferring meaning by calling it intelligent. "Complex" can describe the music directly without deferring the meaning.

I mostly agree with that, but I think music can be complex and well-layered without being intelligent.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Most of the time 'intelligent' music is meant to describe music that is strictly for the head (i.e. math rock) rather than for physical (rhythmic) or emotional (melodic) reactions we typically expect out of music.

On the contrary, the music that moves me the most is intelligent music. I marvel at the genius involved with the track.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Experimental music might also be considered 'intelligent' if there truly is something intuitive going on, but oftentimes producers of that stuff will use the 'intelligent' adjective as a shield against the fact what they're making is just a bunch of stupid noise.

Correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Meat187 There's no such thing as intelligent music. Saying Aphex Twin is more intelligent than Happy Hardcore is like saying apples are more intelligent than oranges. Complete nonsense in every thinkable way.

No, Aphex Twin is far more intelligent than Happy Hardcore. Most happy Hardcore is the equivalent of a children's book or a National Lampoon movie, while Aphex Twin is more like Donnie Darko or Atlas Shrugged. What counts is the effort.

quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes So it appears the general consensus is that there is no such thing as intelligent music. But I ask you this: In the same way you weed through the "dull" tracks on digital music sites to find the tunes that are "good" to you, can you weed through your "good" tunes and pick out the ones that are the most "intelligent?"

Most definitely, and I will do so later to provide a better response to this thread. Right now, I've got a date with a 500g porterhouse.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated No, Aphex Twin is far more intelligent than Happy Hardcore. Most happy Hardcore is the equivalent of a children's book or a National Lampoon movie, while Aphex Twin is more like Donnie Darko or Atlas Shrugged. What counts is the effort.

Or sometimes he'll have a piss-take with people who fancy him 'intelligent', and play a piece of sandpaper on a turntable.

To elaborate on my earlier "complex vs intelligent" statement; to me, complexity is a lot of things happening at once, while "intelligence" in music deals more so with the interactions of the elements with one another and the coherency of the piece as a whole. Anyone can throw 10 layers on top of one another and be "complex", but to make the layers work together and evolve as one is what I define as intelligent production.

Looking through my collection, I have come to the conclusion that some genres have more scope for intelligence, while others are more conducive to frivolity. In general, I would say that for me, the most "intelligent" type of music often seems to be progressive house; the deeper '90s kind that Digweed, Warren and Seaman used to play. It's not a my most favourite genre of music, but all the elements have an amazing sense of coherency and common goal. I don't think most techno is smart, contrary to what techno fanboys say.

Also, the longer a track is, (but not always), it seems that the producer has to be clever enough to pull it off. I'm always attracted to tracks longer than 10 minutes and rarely find them to be bad, perhaps because the producer needs to be intelligent and really evolves the track from start to finish. Superficial, crap producers tend not to make lengthy songs.

Thinking about it, I also realised that subconsciously, one of the reasons I am so drawn to electronic music over instrument-based music is due to electronic's broader scope for creativity and intelligent usage of sound.

Choices:

�me - Rej [Minimal/Techno]



This one should be obvious to most people. It's not incredibly layered, but the elements complement each other perfectly with superbly timed peaks and troughs. The main melody is simple yet sophisticated at the same time.


Hiroyuki Oda - Transmigration [Trance]



I think all of his tracks are clever, but this one particularly. It's funny because most modern trance is pretty "dumb". The 3:30 to 4:00 minute mark is the best example of why I chose this track. It has three complex, evolving melodies all working together and sounding incredibly coherent.


Hallucinogen - Alpha Centauri [Goa Trance]



I don't think I need to explain this. The interplay of elements is amazing, and the progression of the track is too.


Sucker DJs - Lotta Lovin' (Paradise Soul Remix) [Progressive]



Amazing coherency of sound and atmosphere with barely any layers. These guys are one of my favourite groups because all their tracks are like that. See next track too, one of their lesser known works but probably my favourite.


Paradise Soul - Moscow Rendezvous [Progressive]




Pryda - Aftermath [Progressive]



Prydz' work is not half as good as it used to be, and I think for the reason that he used to think a lot more about his tracks. I find the newer ones "dumber" than his old stuff. Like the OP's Acid Eiffel, this track is actually very single-minded but has an amazing evolution of sound. In the same boat is Buick Project - At The Rave.


Domestic feat. X-Noize - Non-Human [Full-on psy-trance]



This is a strange choice because full-on is decidedly shallow and one-dimensional. If you don't already think I'm an idiot from the previous choices/comments, you probably will after listening to this track. Most people would say it's as stupid as happy hardcore, but behind this track I sense an immense intelligence. The builds and breaks are masterful and the interplay of elements too good to be true.

(edit: I just had a listen to this and it's been sped up. The quality is shit and it sounds horrible. One of the most intelligent parts of this track is his usage of silence - this faster version kind of wrecks that because the silences don't sound so significant.)


Plastikman - Spastik [minimal techno]




Nikola Gala - Subterra [progressive]




Nathan Fake - The Sky Was Pink (James Holden Remix) [Techno]




Akzidenz Grotesk - Isbj�rn [techno]

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