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quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine I find it ironic that you'd use that as an example here because starcraft is far deeper and more complex than chess.

chess is all about strategy. starcraft is all about tactics and superior micro.

...and world in conflict is all about not being able to play RTS games for adults.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN chess is all about strategy. starcraft is all about tactics and superior micro.

Theres plenty of strategy involved in build orders, appropriate scouting times and predicting actions and movements of your enemy. In particular hiding things/making your enemy think things.

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Theres plenty of strategy involved in build orders, appropriate scouting times and predicting actions and movements of your enemy. In particular hiding things/making your enemy think things.

none of that is strategy, lol.

Ignore pk..he's a whore for supcom which is one of the most tedious games of all time. Sure he can probably kick your ass when it comes to memorizing 60 different types of ammunition and 200 different ground vehicles, but he wouldn't know fun if it bit him in the ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt Ignore pk..he's a whore for supcom which is one of the most tedious games of all time. Sure he can probably kick your ass when it comes to memorizing 60 different types of ammunition and 200 different ground vehicles, but he wouldn't know fun if it bit him in the ass.

true and that right there is the definition of strategy, lol.

To show off your sparkly machine it's worth looking at :-

Crysis (mentioned)
World in Conflict (mentioned)
Call of Duty 4 - you've most likely seen it but if you haven't the single player is up there with Bioshock as the best experience ever created. COD5 is rubbish in comparison.

GTA4 is out or coming out on PC, there's usually a healthy glut of PC MP mods.

Coming soon will be Operation Flashpoint 2 and ARMA 2

Enemy Territory Quake Wars is a superb MP experience that never really took off. There's probably a few good servers about in the US though.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt Ignore pk..he's a whore for supcom which is one of the most tedious games of all time. Sure he can probably kick your ass when it comes to memorizing 60 different types of ammunition and 200 different ground vehicles, but he wouldn't know fun if it bit him in the ass.

just coz you like games for simpletons don't take out your lack of skill on me little boy! starcraft is an awesome game (and lots of fun!) but that doesn't mean its particularly strategic. its a game that is almost completely dominated by tactics and smart unit micro.

good to see kinetic energy back in here parading his ignorance. you've been missed!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN just coz you like games for simpletons don't take out your lack of skill on me little boy! starcraft is an awesome game (and lots of fun!) but that doesn't mean its particularly strategic. its a game that is almost completely dominated by tactics and smart unit micro. good to see kinetic energy back in here parading his ignorance. you've been missed!

You're understanding of the word "strategy" is the only ignorance in here. Don't hate

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY You're understanding of the word "strategy" is the only ignorance in here. Don't hate

haha! no, its people confusing tactics with strategy! a build order is not strategy.

strategy - the overall "plan" for the game.
tactics - how you go about following your plan.

most RTS titles focus mostly on tactics (which is fine, that's where most of the fun comes from).

now to be amongst us big boys you need GX280's in triple SLI

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha! no, its people confusing tactics with strategy! a build order is not strategy. strategy - the overall "plan" for the game. tactics - how you go about following your plan. most RTS titles focus mostly on tactics (which is fine, that's where most of the fun comes from).

Because so many chess players have this overall plan for the game besides winning...

I fail to see how build orders is not strategy yet some things you do in chess are?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN strategy - the overall "plan" for the game.

This is something starcraft has a lot of, but only at very low skill levels (BGH noobs and such) and very high skill level (pro players or C rank and above). Everything in between is mostly tactics.

Low level noobs go in with a "plan" or usually come up with it at some point in the game, but a higher skilled player will usually scout and adapt to whatever major flaws he finds in the other player's "plan" and go for a quick and easy win. With mid-range players this doesn't happen because both players are smart enough to scout eachother and to constantly adapt to eachother. No plan really lasts more than 30 seconds. At very high levels of play, you start to get into meta-game elements; psychological warfare, bluffing, deception, etc. This is where the most clever strategies start to come into play once again. But they're not really strategies involving units and such, there's more like meta-game strategies.

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Because so many chess players have this overall plan for the game besides winning... I fail to see how build orders is not strategy yet some things you do in chess are?

a build order is something you do as part of your strategic goal(s). you don't watch someone playing warcraft, see them build a barracks and think "OMG, check out the strategy!"

a strategy might be controlling a certain part of the map, or denying a resource to your opponent etc. tactics are moving units around in and out of battle, building units and obviously telling which units to attack what.

chess is different because its not "build as many units as quickly as you can and send them to the enemy base " moving a knight might be tactical, but moving that knight so in three moves it will be able to fork the king and queen- that's strategy.

yah but does Supreme commander have battle cruisers?

quote:

Originally posted by BTG yah but does Supreme commander have battle cruisers?

forged alliance has more units than any RTS i know of. here's a battleship, some cruisers or destroyers plus frigates.



the cybran destroyer grows legs and walks on land.

do you like company of heroes pkc?

quote:

Originally posted by BTG do you like company of heroes pkc?

but of course!!

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...mpany+of+heroes

quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine At very high levels of play, you start to get into meta-game elements; psychological warfare, bluffing, deception, etc. This is where the most clever strategies start to come into play once again. But they're not really strategies involving units and such, there's more like meta-game strategies.

Bluffing and a fair amount of the other stuff goes on even in my d- iccup games, so I'd say pretty much all mid level play. Maybe not my friends playing each other, but basically anyone who even knows about iccup or is otherwise semi decent.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN a build order is something you do as part of your strategic goal(s). you don't watch someone playing warcraft, see them build a barracks and think "OMG, check out the strategy!"

Pretty sure you do actually, "omg he's trying bisu build" or "look he's going FE" at least in starcraft anyway, not familiar with warcraft build orders so much, and thats not what we're talking about.
http://www.blizzforums.com/showthread.php?t=772
Just look at that, while maybe you'd only end up using a quarter of those, theres certainly a ton of strategy in build orders.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN a strategy might be controlling a certain part of the map, or denying a resource to your opponent etc. tactics are moving units around in and out of battle, building units and obviously telling which units to attack what.

Because keeping your opponent in his base, expanding without letting your oponent see you have, denying scouts, making sure your oponent doesn't grab a second gas expo etc totally aren't any of those things,

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Pretty sure you do actually, "omg he's trying bisu build" at least in starcraft anyway, not familiar with warcraft build orders so much, and thats not what we're talking about.

well then, you'd be wrong. building a building isnt strategy.

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Because keeping your opponent in his base, expanding without letting your oponent see you have, denying scouts, making sure your oponent doesn't grab a second gas expo etc totally aren't any of those things,

wow, your very first point you've ever scored against me, ever. you must be proud!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN chess is different because its not "build as many units as quickly as you can and send them to the enemy base " moving a knight might be tactical, but moving that knight so in three moves it will be able to fork the king and queen- that's strategy.

So if I attack one of my enemies expos and draw his main force away from his base while I quickly send in a sneak attack with my remaining forces and destroy his main base is that strategy?

quote:

Essentially, strategy is the thinking aspect of planning a change, organizing something, or planning a war. Strategy lays out the goals that need to be accomplished and the ideas for achieving those goals. Strategy can be complex multi-layered plans for accomplishing objectives and may give consideration to tactics. Tactics are the meat and bread of the strategy. They are the �doing� aspect that follows the planning. Tactics refer specifically to action. In the strategy phase of a plan, the thinkers decide how to achieve their goals. In other words they think about how people will act, i.e., tactics. They decide on what tactics will be employed to fulfill the strategy.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt Ignore pk..he's a whore for supcom which is one of the most tedious games of all time. Sure he can probably kick your ass when it comes to memorizing 60 different types of ammunition and 200 different ground vehicles, but he wouldn't know fun if it bit him in the ass.

as opposed to memorising 60 different armour types and 200 different damage types to counter each other. my arse really hurts from the fun biting it so much!

I say just play whatever game gets u off, stop the crying about what the definition of strategy is, and go get laid

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY I say just play whatever game gets u off, stop the crying about what the definition of strategy is, and go get laid

Oh plz, pkc is above sex.

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Oh plz, pkc is above sex.

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