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-- Nuclear weapon from Iran within a year
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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I own a nuclear submarine. Wanna join my crew?

been there. done that. got the t-shirt...literally.

do you at least understand the parallel i'm illustrating for you and your question as to "why is it the nuclear armed countries get to dictate to the rest of the world"?

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Originally posted by IlanG Unlike Israel or USA, Iran is threatening to destroy wipe a country off the map.

Show me proof Iran said this comment so i can counter it with what he really said.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im not saying it was a "response" to perceived US threats, but the natural progression of a US policy of "no talkies".

sorry but thats bullshit. we talk to the Norks. WE HAVEN"T STOPPED TALKING TO THEM for 15 years! do you fucking people have the attention span of ameobas?

as far as Iran is concerned there really is nothing more or different the US could articulate that the whole of Europe hasn't done already. and if you think otherwise that we can tell what Iran can and can't do regarding the Nuclear NPT then you really don't understand the mullah's and their intentions.

quote:

knock yourself out: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kim/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/showdown/

i try it out.

^^ That "Showdown with Iran" is such propaganda bullshit. So one sided with Israel so it's full of shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo sorry but thats bullshit. we talk to the Norks. WE HAVEN"T STOPPED TALKING TO THEM for 15 years! do you fucking people have the attention span of ameobas?

OK, should i have said "no NICE talkies"? all i do know is that the US' efforts failed pretty miserably with george at the helm, and the sabre-rattling and the "axis of evil" stuff hardly did the world any favours.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo as far as Iran is concerned there really is nothing more or different the US could articulate that the whole of Europe hasn't done already. and if you think otherwise that we can tell what Iran can and can't do regarding the Nuclear NPT then you really don't understand the mullah's and their intentions.

well, i think the US had a pretty good opportunity to make inroads with iran after 911, and instead went with the rhetoric of showdown. but maybe that's my naivete as you so eloquently put it

quote:

Originally posted by Lemonad ^^ That "Showdown with Iran" is such propaganda bullshit. So one sided with Israel so it's full of shit.

well, given the nature of your thoroughly one-eyed opinions when it comes to the middle east, im not surprised to hear more nonsense from you. its hardly "propaganda", but a look from the POV of the united states of america.

maybe you'd prefer something from the thoroughly trustworthy and unbiased iranian state-run media?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo been there. done that. got the t-shirt...literally.

I know...

quote:

do you at least understand the parallel i'm illustrating for you and your question as to "why is it the nuclear armed countries get to dictate to the rest of the world"?

So you'r saying having a gun justifies the right to dictate to others my own agenda? That's simply wrong. Possessing power does not inherently justify the use of that power for one's own interests.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton So you'r saying having a gun justifies the right to dictate to others my own agenda?

no, not at all. what i'm saying is that there are rules/laws and standards of character to be considered before letting someone posses firearms. nothing too different going on here.

as far as Iran is concerned they have repeatedly and purposefully failed to meet such criteria.

is there any evidence to suggest that iran has been enriching uranium to weapons-grade standards?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kim/

the production date circa 2003 makes this one completely irrelevant not only in terms of what was accomplished in the following 5 years of the previous US administration but also where to go now in terms of the present US administration.

quote:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/showdown/

what is the signifigance of this one in terms of the points youre trying to make in this thread?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN is there any evidence to suggest that iran has been enriching uranium to weapons-grade standards?

>LINK< from 2006

This world would be better place without Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi This world would be better place without Israel.

ideologically and lifestyle wise do you consider yourself a liberal or "progressive"?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo the production date circa 2003 makes this one completely irrelevant not only in terms of what was accomplished in the following 5 years of the previous US administration but also where to go now in terms of the present US administration.

i disagree. i think its a valid history of korean-US relations, and we have our own knowledge to understand what came next. and do tell- what exactly was achieved by the bush administration in the next 5 years? you know, other than korea testing their nukes for all to see?

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Originally posted by Q5echo what is the signifigance of this one in terms of the points youre trying to make in this thread?

it makes a comparison of the hawkish failure in north korea re nuclear weapons with the current (at the time) hawkish dealings with iran over the same damned problem. we know that the administration's bluster failed to prevent north korea from going nuclear, so it (or at least i) question similar tactics being used re iran.

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Originally posted by Q5echo >LINK< from 2006

yeah, that is a bit troubling. as noted in the article though, not a smoking gun and could have been contaminated in pakistan. still though, i dont like the secrecy with which the program is conducted.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo ideologically and lifestyle wise do you consider yourself a liberal or "progressive"?

progressive

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN and do tell- what exactly was achieved by the bush administration in the next 5 years? you know, other than korea testing their nukes for all to see?

first off this notion that Bush was "hawkish" towards the Norks is another one of those media driven falsehoods. we never threatened military action in response to what North Korea did with their programs. we are still under an armistice with the Norks.

if you are referring to missle defence systems around the Sea of Japan and augmenting existing sytems on the peninsula those are, again, purely defensive in nature and were requested at the behest of those countries.

second, they already had enough weapons grade PLUTONIUM (not uranium) to make multiple devices long before Bush ever took office. you can blame the previous administration for that, if your only interest is to blame the US for what they do.



at any rate, we managed to get the Chinese involved in 6 party talks.

through intense 6 party negotiations (as opposed what Clinton attempted) we took them off the state sponsor of terror list, feed and fuel their peasants, guarantee future aid, ultimately resulting in the shutting down of their main facility in Yongbyon.

the problem here with the Norks is that you and other people who don't really take these things seriously but manage to fault everything that the US does beyond all other rational explaination seem to think we're dealing with a rational and trustworthy government in Pyongyang. it's absurd and it doesn't take much historical research on the subject past Jan 22, 2000 to come to such a conclusion.

quote:

it makes a comparison of the hawkish failure in north korea re nuclear weapons with the current (at the time) hawkish dealings with iran over the same damned problem. we know that the administration's bluster failed to prevent north korea from going nuclear, so it (or at least i) question similar tactics being used re iran.

i hope i explained enough to you about the Norks and their nuclear ambitions predating the Bush administration. well, other than the fact Iran wants to destroy Israel, roughly the same timeline and pre-dating Bush applies as well.

another thing Iran has in common with the Norks it their completely duplicitous, ideologically bankrupt and exclusively inclusive government. other than that any and all attempts at non-proliferation need completly different approaches. primarily one that doesn't force the US to sit down with Ahmedinejad alone at the table.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi progressive

so you have more in common with them [Israel] than you do radical facist Islam?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, that is a bit troubling. as noted in the article though, not a smoking gun and could have been contaminated in pakistan. still though, i dont like the secrecy with which the program is conducted.

the devices they found in Lavizan, which was a defence facility btw that is a central part in their military industrial complex >LINK<, completely suprised the IAEA because they were told and assumed there was no nuke reseach going on there.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Didnt you ******s just almost wiped Gaza off the map and got away with it?

No.

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Originally posted by Q5echo no, not at all. what i'm saying is that there are rules/laws and standards of character to be considered before letting someone posses firearms. nothing too different going on here. as far as Iran is concerned they have repeatedly and purposefully failed to meet such criteria.

According to that standard, no country should have nuclear weapons, including the United States.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo so you have more in common with them [Israel] than you do radical facist Islam?

I have more in common with Iran, I think they should nuke Israel to save Gaza and Palestine and this world.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi I have more in common with Iran, I think they should nuke Israel to save Gaza and Palestine and this world.

Complete nonsense. Iran would itself be wiped off the map. Are you crazy?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton According to that standard,...

wait wait wait hold the fuck on, THAT IS THE STANDARD

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo wait wait wait hold the fuck on, THAT IS THE STANDARD

Keep reading...

quote:

no country should have nuclear weapons, including the United States.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo no, not at all. what i'm saying is that there are rules/laws and standards of character to be considered before letting someone posses firearms. nothing too different going on here. as far as Iran is concerned they have repeatedly and purposefully failed to meet such criteria.

conveniently ignoring the fact that Israel doesn't meet such criteria as well. by your analogy Israel is holding an arsenal of guns without any recognized license.

lots of countries have "moral character" that don't possess their own nukes. Canada, Iceland,Sweden, Finland, Norway, Australia etc.

and countries like China(which i consider lacking moral character) are fully allowed nukes as they are a permanent member of the security council with veto. Its not about who is the most moral when it comes to nukes. you got the original 5 which put a balance to each other, 4 non npt members(Israel grouped with India, Pakistan, NK....how u like them apples.) oh and Israel is the only country with the balls to continually deny their stash. At least the Norks(Is that offensive?) are upfront about it to be honest.

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