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33% of car accidents are caused by drunk drivers...that means 64% are caused by sober drivers...so that means we should all get drunk before driving.

Stupid article.

The issue with MDMA isn't the (miniscule) chance of dying, it's the potential it has to do neurological damage, leaving users with long term emotional and cognitive problems.

Luckily studies suggest that these at least partially reverse with extended abstinance, but too many people trivialize the long term effects of MDMA because they enjoy the high too much to want to believe that they're hurting themselves. There's a really dangerous culture of denial about the drug which I find incredibly sad.

And what about booze? It causes a lot of damage too but it is allowed.

And as for the drunk driver position why not make booze illegal then?

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish And what about booze? It causes a lot of damage too but it is allowed. And as for the drunk driver position why not make booze illegal then?

Only when chronically abused. The kind of recreational alcohol use we see in 99% of the population isn't neurotoxic. Of course there are a whole host of other factors, and I'd say alcohol can be equally damaging, just in other ways.

They tried making booze illegal. The whole prohibition thing. Didn't go down too well.

In the end I think legality should be approached in a utilitarian fashion, I certainly think MDMA should be decriminalized for personal use, I don't think turning clubbers into criminals achieves anything except encouraging even more risk taking with MDMA use, but I think legalization would promote even more rampant abuse than currently, and that's just not a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Taranis Stupid article. The issue with MDMA isn't the (miniscule) chance of dying, it's the potential it has to do neurological damage, leaving users with long term emotional and cognitive problems. Luckily studies suggest that these at least partially reverse with extended abstinance, but too many people trivialize the long term effects of MDMA because they enjoy the high too much to want to believe that they're hurting themselves. There's a really dangerous culture of denial about the drug which I find incredibly sad.

Can confirm.

Fuck, I would kill for quality-assured, government controlled (e) - it would make riding horses naked, wasted on (e) fun again.


Wait... what?

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Yes. I'm sick of people trying to justify their drug usage to themselves by denying that it's harmful. Like many other substances, ecstasy degrades your neurotransmitter systems with every dose. The fact that I feel like complete shit right now is proof of that.

Exactly why I'm off the shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Yes. I'm sick of people trying to justify their drug usage to themselves by denying that it's harmful. Like many other substances, ecstasy degrades your neurotransmitter systems with every dose. The fact that I feel like complete shit right now is proof of that.

prostitutes

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Yes. I'm sick of people trying to justify their drug usage to themselves by denying that it's harmful. Like many other substances, ecstasy degrades your neurotransmitter systems with every dose. The fact that I feel like complete shit right now is proof of that.

LOL "degrades your neurotransmitter systems"? You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

The fact is, there is NO conclusive study that says long-term ecstasy use is harmful. Not one, so shut up.

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Originally posted by ownymcown LOL "degrades your neurotransmitter systems"? You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. The fact is, there is NO conclusive study that says long-term ecstasy use is harmful. Not one, so shut up.

Take an ecstasy tablet everyday for a year, and see if it doesn't fuck ur brain up.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Take an ecstasy tablet everyday for a year, and see if it doesn't fuck ur brain up.

Stop taking it for a year, and see if I don't return to normal. Dumbass.

Moderate (once every 1-3 months) is perfectly acceptable.

I'm a physical manifestion of excessive e.

quote:

Originally posted by ownymcown Stop taking it for a year, and see if I don't return to normal. Dumbass. Moderate (once every 1-3 months) is perfectly acceptable.

ur the idiot who thinks recreational amounts of E has no negative effect on brain chemistry. hint, it does...

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton ur the idiot who thinks recreational amounts of E has no negative effect on brain chemistry. hint, it does...

Only for as long as you take it, but no study has yet to prove it causes permanent long term damage...

quote:

Originally posted by ownymcown LOL "degrades your neurotransmitter systems"? You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. The fact is, there is NO conclusive study that says long-term ecstasy use is harmful. Not one, so shut up.

On the other hand, there are no conclusive studies that say it's not harmful long-term.

Seeing as there is plenty anecdotal evidence supporting the fact that ecstasy is harmful, I'm going to stick with believing that.

quote:

Originally posted by ownymcown Only for as long as you take it, but no study has yet to prove it causes permanent long term damage...

Even if the damage caused by ecstasy is short term (i.e less than a year to heal), why should that be acceptable? Is it acceptable to have a broken finger or toe for a year, just because you know it will heal eventually?

your logic is flawed. Moderation is key with everything.. The problem with extacy is that it is addictive and people get hoooked on it.


Did you know that oxygen is degenerative to us but we inhale it in order to survive?

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit your logic is flawed. Moderation is key with everything.. The problem with extacy is that it is addictive and people get hoooked on it.

No it isn't. People can stop doing ecstasy any time they like.

oxygen > e

quote:

Originally posted by ownymcown Only for as long as you take it, but no study has yet to prove it causes permanent long term damage...

When you take ecstasy, your brain cells not only flood themselves with serotonin, but with 'free radical' molecules, which damage cell walls, reduce the flexibility of blood vessels, destroy enzymes, and cause other molecular damage in the neurological pathways. MDMA itself is no a nuero-toxin. But the resultant chemical reactions caused by the effect of the drug are certainly damaging to the brain.

Ecstasy, if taken enough will cause LONG-TERM damage to the brain. I'v seen it first hand. Never mind my anecdotal evidence. There's plenty of scientific studies to sift through. I suggest you begin at www.erowid.org.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated On the other hand, there are no conclusive studies that say it's not harmful long-term. Seeing as there is plenty anecdotal evidence supporting the fact that ecstasy is harmful, I'm going to stick with believing that. Even if the damage caused by ecstasy is short term (i.e less than a year to heal), why should that be acceptable? Is it acceptable to have a broken finger or toe for a year, just because you know it will heal eventually?

Quite the opposite, there are people who have been rolling for decades and are now fine, they aren't vegetables, in fact nothing is wrong with them (I've read many first hand accounts of such veterans of e, and according to themselves, they are fine).

As to your last point, it's different strokes for different folks. Some people would take the risk of short term damage, some people wouldn't. It's not as stupid as breaking your own toe though, there is a payoff from taking e (the enjoyment you get).

The reasoning of the article in the OP may be flawed, but the more important issue is the legality of it. Why make it illegal? Legal drugs have killed far more people (oxies, benzos).

A better analogy is, if you let people jump out of planes (risk taking behavior), why not let them risk their lives with drugs?

Edit: Krypton, I'm positive there AREN'T any studies that suggest any of the damage caused by use of mdma isn't reversible. Sorry, you're wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit your logic is flawed. Moderation is key with everything.. The problem with extacy is that it is addictive and people get hoooked on it. Did you know that oxygen is degenerative to us but we inhale it in order to survive?

it may be psychologically addictive, but i dont believe it to be physically addictive.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated No it isn't. People can stop doing ecstasy any time they like.

really?

tell it to the crack head that smashed up my pt cruiser.


sure its not the healthiest thing.. but if you do it once in a while its effects are probably not much more negative then taking study drugs. (ritalin, dexidrine etc).


you'll fry your neurons for sure if you do excess.. but once or twice a year is negligable

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton it may be psychologically addictive, but i dont believe it to be physically addictive.

i would probably compare its addiction to that of cocaine. your mind will crave it to return to that mood again.

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