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Re: Re: Re: Stimulus Bill

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen Recessions historically last approx 18 months, so following history it would be over by years end anyway.

Normal recession...

A free-fall that hasn't even showed any signs of slowing...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stimulus Bill

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen I feel much better now, thanks for taking all that time to ponder our situation, our country is much better off now

The only reason you think all this bullshit is because thats what everyone on TV is feeding you. Theres 8 million pundits all having fun ripping this bill to shreds like it's the great satan. It's fucking painfully obvious that you haven't actually thought about it all the way through or are incapable of making the necessary connections. If you actually think about where the money is going, what it will be spent on, it really isn't that bad. This is money that will benefit the country for a while to come. It's going to get stalled construction projects accross the country going. It's going to help states meet their shortfalls and not have to cut teacher salaries or close schools and hospitals or prisons. It's going to get the ball rolling on making the entire nation more energy efficient and green. It's going to help poor people and people who have lost their jobs by extending unemployment benefits.

It really isn't rocket science...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stimulus Bill

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Originally posted by Clovis The only reason you think all this bullshit is because thats what everyone on TV is feeding you.

I posted an article, which is something that has to be read.

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen yea well, education spending has its time and place, and that is not for an emergency economic stimulus package. We need consumers to be spending NOT our wasteful government. Not sure why we dont take a page out of REAGONOMICS and cut taxes. Start with the payroll taxes so that companies can afford not to be laying everybody off. Most of this is all welfare programs disguised as tax cuts. why would somebody who doesnt have any tax liability, thus not pay any tax, get a tax refund?? WTF

May not be payroll tax cuts, but there is still a decent amount of tax breaks in the bill...

* A tax break for companies allowing them to write off current losses against previous tax years for up to five years, instead of the current two years, has been scaled back from provisions in the bills passed by the House and Senate. Negotiators said the tax break would now be targeted to small businesses. Package includes other small business tax breaks to encourage new investment.

* Tax provisions total $282 billion, with the remaining approximately $507 billion in spending for infrastructure, health and other programs.

* A "make work pay" tax credit championed by Obama is $400 for individuals and $800 for couples. Earlier versions called for a tax credit of $500 and $1,000 respectively.

* A tax credit for home buyers worth about $8,000. Earlier proposals put the credit as high as $15,000 and as low as $7,500.

* Temporary alternative minimum tax relief for more than 20 million taxpayers who otherwise would face paying the tax originally meant for the wealthy.

* Aide to states worth $87 billion over the next two years to help pay for Medicaid health care for the poor.

* $150 billion for infrastructure including transportation, high-speed Internet service and energy projects.

* $54 billion for a state stabilization fund to help states plug growing budget gaps and pay for school modernization projects. Earlier proposals had put state aid as high as $79 billion and school construction at as much as $16 billion.


* A 60 percent federal subsidy to help laid-off workers keep employer-provided health insurance coverage through COBRA, a federal law that allows workers to temporarily maintain the coverage once provided by employers but at 102 percent of the cost. An earlier version had the COBRA subsidy at 65 percent. A House provision that would have allowed unemployed workers to qualify for Medicaid was dropped.

* $19 billion to help doctors and hospitals upgrade computers and other technology to help share information on patient care to save money. Another $1.1 billion was provided to study effectiveness of various treatments.

* Extends a special unemployment benefits program for long-term jobless workers through December 2009 and increases benefit by $25 per week. Temporarily suspends taxes on some unemployment benefits.

* Increases food stamp benefits by more than 13 percent to help offset rising food costs. Increases other food assistance programs.

* Extends trade adjustment assistance benefits for at least 160,000 workers.

* Provides a tax break for consumers to buy new cars. Consumers will be able to deduct state sales taxes, a far smaller tax benefit than a version passed by the Senate. Purchasers of "plug-in" electric hybrid vehicles get a more generous tax credit of up to $7,500.

* Includes $300 million for the federal government to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stimulus Bill

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen I posted an article, which is something that has to be read.

It's the same thing. Print, TV, radio, all the critics are spitting out the same thing that they recycle from each other.

If anything is baseless it's singling out 10 million dollar amounts in an 800+ billion dollar bill.

Bills have some pork in them, this is the U.S. legislature we're talking about. Always have always will. The thing is, pork is not always bad. Many times that's how representatives give back to their constituents. You might not care about building a power plant in Illinois, but I'm sure the people who live there are praying for it to inject some jobs into their area.

This bill is far from perfect, but we need it, and it will do a lot of good. We'll extract far more gain from this than the almost unmeasurable amount from the bank bailout (did you see the bank execs getting grilled earlier this week?)

we should all get a cup of cofee

Clovis has made some excellent points in this thread. Cheers to that

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stimulus Bill

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Originally posted by Clovis It's the same thing. Print, TV, radio

true, we shouldnt get our news from print, tv, radio, we should get it from...umm...wait... where should we get our news from again?

BTW, its the print, tv, radio, that had the biggest hand in getting this guy elected in the first place.

I'm really into politics if anyone hasn't noticed. It's bad.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stimulus Bill

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen true, we shouldnt get our news from print, tv, radio, we should get it from...umm...wait... where should we get our news from again?

Hard to say, most sources in this country are dogshit.

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BTW, its the print, tv, radio, that had the biggest hand in getting this guy elected in the first place.

I think his campaign, followed by the media, had the biggest hand in getting him elected. Stupid people love hype. Whether it's about HOPE and CHANGE, or regurgitated outrage over a stimulus bill.

personally, i watch cspan and nbc raw news if im watching anything news related. It basically puts the footage out there and allows you to draw your own conclusions. I also watch foriegn news coverage, or bbc sometimes. But for the most part i just like to read and draw my own conclusions.

but I agree, his campaign was well done, but the best part about it was timing. The media has the final say though, since most americans are unable to think for themselves or research past historical mistakes.

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen personally, i watch cspan and nbc raw news if im watching anything news related. It basically puts the footage out there and allows you to draw your own conclusions. I also watch foriegn news coverage, or bbc sometimes. But for the most part i just like to read and draw my own conclusions. but I agree, his campaign was well done, but the best part about it was timing. The media has the final say though, since most americans are unable to think for themselves or research past historical mistakes.

CSPAN is great but fucking hell is the legislative process boring.

It would be nice if we had something raw like C-SPAN but in highlight form.

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Originally posted by Clovis CSPAN is great but fucking hell is the legislative process boring. It would be nice if we had something raw like C-SPAN but in highlight form.

true, but you can show your bias in the editing process very easily.

Politicians are not exactly the most entertaining public speakers, but at least its real and you can usually see right through the fake ass politicians.

The two things i was really interested in right away were the unemployment extension (I know people who have been out of work for 14+ months and are struggling just to get enough contract jobs to basically work part-time) and the COBRA thing.

Devin (ya know, my son) is on my insurance so it's important to me. The amazing COBRA right now is an f'n ripoff. I can conitnue my insurance, for $1050/month. This bill does a truly amazing job in helping me out....This package makes it ooooooohh so much more affordable for me to keep it nine months. It'll only be about #460/mnth for me instead. Yeah, unemployed and I can afford that. Nice. Fucking hate our healthcare system. Luckily, Michelle's insuranc has their open enrollment in April (dunno when it would exactly start) which means Devin would only be off of insurance for a few months. Hopefully she can get him back with Kaiser...


Anyhow, beyond that how they are rushing this is a real disgrace. I would never sign anything ilke this without know all the details. The whole thing wasn't even typed up. They are lines blacked out, scribbled through, with changes made in hand-writing in the columns. That's how rushed all this stuff is. And these people are supposed to be representing us? This is why I hate the whole "party" thing and politics. People we are voting for are making blind decisions just because they they have to be loyal to their party more than the people who they are representing. There's plenty of important things in this thing, but I'm seeing plenty of things that's just a flat out waste, a lot of them being directly linkeed as pork funds that some Democrats have pushed for to us in their own districts, including Nancy Pelosi. Talking $50 here, $150 million there. Rediculous.

I don't care if your a Democrat, Republican, Independent, Communist, or whatever....no one should be OK with how this was handled in the end. They couldn't wait just a few days...or a week...they had to go out of their way so Pelosi could make her big trip to Europe and to keep Obama's Monday deadline....should know that deadlines like that aren't REALLY deadlines..

I don't care if the whole damn thing was perfect in the end. I don't care if even how it, it really does help turn our economy about. This is about being responsible when it comes to deicision making as our representatives. Especially when it's something that will have some type of effect on my future.

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Originally posted by skizzell Homeowners should not be saved. It was their own fault for making a stupid decision to buy something they couldn't possibly sustain. I afford my mortgage just fine and took account all the risk and such when I bought my house 4.5 years ago. Don't reward the idiots and punish the people who pay in good faith.

very true.
I won't lie... i'm a little biased because i know someone that has been affected.

Politics are a joke!

dave is spot on. There are of course a few good thing here and there in the bill, but NOT 800 Billion worth thats for damn sure. Money is so tight right now, we need to have our reps accountable for every penny spent.

Rich and clovis and disko dave all seem to think he is making moves to put our economy in a good position over the long run, then what the fuck is the rush? Take your time and get it right if that is the plan, dont shove some 800 billion dollar bill down our throats if progress is supposed to be seen over the long haul.

Do you know that everything you listed accounts for less than 1% of the entire recovery bill?

You sound more and more like a fixed news meat puppet with every post.

Also, your copy & paste "article" on page one is hardly credible when the source is a radical right wing blog.

http://www.reason.com/news/printer/131611.html

quote:

Originally posted by skizzell Homeowners should not be saved. It was their own fault for making a stupid decision to buy something they couldn't possibly sustain. I afford my mortgage just fine and took account all the risk and such when I bought my house 4.5 years ago. Don't reward the idiots and punish the people who pay in good faith.

It isnt just homeowners who purchased a shitty loan they couldnt afford that are in trouble.

The policies pushed forward by Barney Frank are what allowed homes to be bought by people that couldnt afford them, but this is also what shot home prices through the roof. So people who had already been in their home for 15 years figured they had gained all this equity and thus refinanced. Now that prices have since fallen in the toilet, they are also screwed. The policies gave homeowners a false sense of equity that has now been retracted and longstanding homeowners are now paying for this wreckless lending.

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Originally posted by starboy Do you know that everything you listed accounts for less than 1% of the entire recovery bill? You sound more and more like a fixed news meat puppet with every post.

I was wondering where you were. Your contribution to the thread is noted.

Its Hardly productive arguing this issue with you guys on this board, because what it comes down to is a philisophical difference. You all are ok with big government spending, welfare programs, and wasteful unregulated and losely accounted for pork spending. I happen to think that capitalism works better when we the people are the ones spending our money, not wasteful politicians. Additionally, I dont think that Banks should be getting bailed out, and corporations should recieve TARP funds. Companies need to fail, others will move in and capitalism will work itself out and prevail.

Also, i deeply apologize if there are some in the news media that actually share my point of view and ideas.

Your right wing palin-limbaugh ideology was rejected in a big way in november, time to move on.

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen Also, i deeply apologize if there are some in the news media that actually share my point of view and ideas.

If you actually believe that site is credible "news media" i don't really need to say much else.

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Obama that promised to rid of the lobbyists, and bring CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN to washington?

It sounds more like YOU are lobbying for the far right blogesphere, you took the words in almost exact same context from this "article"

http://www.reason.com/news/show/131556.html

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Originally posted by starboy Your right wing palin-limbaugh ideology was rejected in a big way in november, time to move on.

You obviously have never met me and have no idea about my ideaology.

In no way would I ever support either of them, and my rejection of big government spending supports the ideaology of great leaders such as Ronald Reagon, JFK, and the economics that have set our nation apart from our western european friends.

Im simply a fiscal conservitive, that thinks the economy is better off if we pay less taxes, and spend more of OUR own money. NOT a radical, right wing, pro-life jesus lover.

If i'm not mistaken ronald reagan raised taxes every year in the eight years he was president.

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