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-- Greatest electronic musician of all time?
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Vangelis & Jean Michel Jarre. No question about it.

Mythodea Movement part III anyone?

i dont think its possible to tell, at first i think of oliver lieb but then i come to think of his narow style making only trance and techno (including weird beep-techno) and is more a elitist kinda dude. then i think of liam howlett but hes been sucking since 98 but still stuff from 93-97 is out of this world. richie hawtin has been important and really original both technicaly and music wise but i really dont like what happened to the scene beacuse of him lately (read minimal). so what am i left with? Chemical Brothers? Fatboy Slim? all this bigbeat shit? I raelly dont like most of it but its crossing genres and seems to work on everyone both technicaly and like hmm timeless?. u just made me realise i dont have any favorite producers anymore haha. well Technasia (Charles Siegling) and Secret Cinema (Jeroen Verheij) is the real shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeHx1hspglc&eurl=http://www.secretcinema.nl/site/&feature=player_embedded
i lol at his funny grooves

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN something like quality, quantity and overall contributions and influence

That makes things complicated, some of those are difficult to measure.
When I would make a list like you did I would have to put Pet Shop Boys in it. I think it's better not to make that list, unless some of you need a good laugh (or throw up).

Do you think Aphex Twin really should be in that list?
I would like to understand why it should.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB When I would make a list like you did I would have to put Pet Shop Boys in it. I think it's better not to make that list, unless some of you need a good laugh (or throw up). Do you think Aphex Twin really should be in that list? I would like to understand why it should.

Put your shitty taste to side and for once try to be objective. Pet Shop Boys? What the fuck did Pet Shop Boys do to earn the title of the greatest electronic musicians of all time? They weren't the first nor the best pop musicians who used electronic instruments to create music. By the time they appeared Gary Numan, Depeche Mode and New Order already made the music that PSB never came close to. PSB were just a simple pop band and nobody should take them too serious. Depeche Mode on the other hand evolved into a fantastic and very influental band which is more than relevant these days (while nobody even remembers PSB anymore). So if you want to single out one pop band that was really influental, try Depeche Mode (I think I even read one interview where Goa Gil explained that DM were one of the main influences for psy trance).

Aphex Twin on the other hand is overrated only in IDM circles. He wasn't the main force behind IDM development (Autechre were), and was much less influental to sound than some of his fanboys think. Nonetheless, he's a complete musician and he showed his talent in pretty much every genre out there. His Selected Ambient Works II is one of the most breathtaking ambient/drone albums ever, and that's pretty impressive when you realize that SAWII was the only ambient album he ever made. I mean, look at Pete Namlook, that guy releases like one album every week and he probably worked on more than 300 albums in his career, but he never made an album that came close to SAWII. And his first SAW is maybe even a bigger achievement, especially if you realize that some of the stuff on it was made way back in 1985. And don't get me even started about Polygon Window and his awesome 2007 album under The Tuss moniker (which came like a breath of fresh air to tiring IDM scene). And all these Analords released in 2005... Bottom line is, you don't have to be an IDM freak to understand what kind of impact AFX had on electronic music. He's simply the master of analogue equipment and some of the techniques he invented are being copied even today.

The main problem is, and I'll say this for a millionth time, your fucking awful taste. But what's even worse is your attitude and your desire to show that awful taste wherever you can. Your "I know it all because I'm like 40 and listening to shitty EDM since the early 90's" attitude is ridiculous and nobody is buying it. You should really restrain yourself from posting sometimes...

BTW, here's my suggestions (it's impossible to single out just one person):
early times: Kraftwerk, JMJ, Tangerine Dream, Vangelis, Stockhausen
techno: Belleville Three, Carl Craig, Kirk Degiorgio, Mad Mike, Hawtin
house: Marshall Jefferson, Farley Jackmaster, Adonis, Larry Heard
trance: Oliver Lieb, Cosmic Baby, Eye Q crew (Vath, Boutsen, Bzet...)
drum&bass: Roni Size, Goldie, LTJ Bukem
IDM: Autechre, AFX, Chris Clark
Hardcore: Lenny Dee, Marc Trauner
Ambient: Pete Namlook, Biosphere, Global Communications, CBL
Trip Hop: Massive Attack, Portishead
+ others

No one else thinks Brian Eno?

That guy has had a massive career and basically coined the term ambient, which really was the first genre of electronic music, at least original electronic music.

obviously kraftwerk, computer world alone anticipated the whole digital world of nowadays, personal computers, chatting, even privacy protection and other issues of today. and they massively influenced hiphop AND detroit techno. might be an easy choice, but the fact that they were making music almost 30 years ago about what we are doing right now (communicating via internet) speaks for itself

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby No one else thinks Brian Eno? That guy has had a massive career and basically coined the term ambient, which really was the first genre of electronic music, at least original electronic music.

Brian Eno is overrated and ambient wasn't the first genre of electronic music.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby No one else thinks Brian Eno? That guy has had a massive career and basically coined the term ambient, which really was the first genre of electronic music, at least original electronic music.

The first electronic music was probably classical musicians' experiments with synthesizers, whatever "genre" you want to call that. Even before that there were tape machine pieces and musique concrete.

I love Eno and don't think he is overrated, btw.

quote:

Originally posted by sljiva Brian Eno is overrated and ambient wasn't the first genre of electronic music.

What was then? What was the first truly electronic form of music.

I am not talking about covers of classical music or song where electronic instrumentation were only part of the arrangement.

I am hard pressed to think of anything earlier than ambient like music from the late 1960's and the 1970's.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby What was then? What was the first truly electronic form of music. I am not talking about covers of classical music or song where electronic instrumentation were only part of the arrangement. I am hard pressed to think of anything earlier than ambient like music from the late 1960's and the 1970's.

Stockhausen was doing wholly electronic stuff with synths back in the '50s. Original works too, not just "covers."

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Stockhausen was doing wholly electronic stuff with synths back in the '50s. Original works too, not just "covers."

But could his music be called electronic music, or classical music done with electronics?

I am trying to make a distinction between music that was a completely new genre and music that was just using a different technology.

I am not discrediting them, but I still think that as its own distinct genre and sound, ambient-esque works were the first.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby But could his music be called electronic music, or classical music done with electronics? I am trying to make a distinction between music that was a completely new genre and music that was just using a different technology. I am not discrediting them, but I still think that as its own distinct genre and sound, ambient-esque works were the first.

what he was doing had no soul, so i wouldnt call it electronic music... it was more like experimenting with electronic sounds instead

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby But could his music be called electronic music, or classical music done with electronics?

I don't think there's really a difference. If something's done with synths and sampling (tape machines in this case), then it's automatically "electronic music," IMO, even if it's composed with "classical" influence and mentality. Electronic and classic are not mutually exclusive categories.

quote:

I am trying to make a distinction between music that was a completely new genre and music that was just using a different technology.

This is problematic here because in classical music the concept of "genre" is entirely different from what it is in pop music. In classical music "song" and "sonata" and "concerto" and "symphony" are genres. "Genre" in classical music refers to formal arrangement and instrumentation features, while in ordinary (popular) musical discussion it refers to mostly the "sound" of a work. Stockhausen was certainly trying to break from traditional "classical" conventions in many ways.

Yeah, electronic music is just a music that has a soul. That's an awesome definition. And how do you exactly can tell when someone makes a piece with soul in it and when there's no soul?

Joss: ambient as a genre tag was probably the first that popped out that we associate with electronic music today, but that's completely irrelevant and means nothing. Ambient was not the first form of electronic music, period.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think there's really a difference. If something's done with synths and sampling (tape machines in this case), then it's automatically "electronic music," IMO, even if it's composed with "classical" influence and mentality. Electronic and classic are not mutually exclusive categories. This is problematic here because in classical music the concept of "genre" is entirely different from what it is in pop music. In classical music "song" and "sonata" and "concerto" and "symphony" are genres. "Genre" in classical music refers to formal arrangement and instrumentation features, while in ordinary (popular) musical discussion it refers to mostly the "sound" of a work. Stockhausen was certainly trying to break from traditional "classical" conventions in many ways.

I meant genre in the Oxford dictionary way. Not in a classical distinction way.

And true, its a determination of sub-genres in classical, just the same as calling electronic music a genre and then things like trance or techno or house sub-genres.

But they in themselves have sub-genres and more genres inside of those.

I am not sure what the real hierarchal for music would be... maybe more like the animal kingdom?

Even if you want to call things like Musique Concrete more early than "ambient" I would even go so far as to say that is "ambient" as well... maybe literally more ambient as it is manipulation of sounds around people... ambient sounds, like trains.

quote:

Originally posted by sljiva Yeah, electronic music is just a music that has a soul. That's an awesome definition. And how do you exactly can tell when someone makes a piece with soul in it and when there's no soul?

experimenting under a technical and scientific aspect: no soul

and that was what they were initially doing...

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I meant genre in the Oxford dictionary way. Not in a classical distinction way. And true, its a determination of sub-genres in classical, just the same as calling electronic music a genre and then things like trance or techno or house sub-genres.

It's not really "sub-genres of classical," though. Someone could just as easily compose a "concerto" or "sonata" for electric guitar, TB-303, and drum machine, and in classical terms it would fall under the genre of "concerto" or "sonata." In classical terms, the formal categories are the genres. Ultimately the sound of a work is not the decisive characteristic.

quote:

Originally posted by trancepeter experimenting under a technical and scientific aspect: no soul and that was what they were initially doing...

So for you every experimental band that makes electronic music is not really making electronic music? Coil, Pan Sonic and Autechre all make what? Rock music?

Like there isn't any soul or passion behind experimentation.

quote:

Originally posted by sljiva So for you every experimental band that makes electronic music is not really making electronic music? Coil, Pan Sonic and Autechre all make what? Rock music?

do they work in laboratories? no...

You're a waste of time.

Well I succesfuly made this thread off-topic... My work is done here!

It was a nice excursion IMO, other than the stupid bit about "experimental music has no soul."

quote:

Originally posted by sljiva You're a waste of time.

seriously, let me explain what i mean. have you ever seen an electronic studio from the 50s? they looked like laboratories and the "musicians" were at the same time making sounds and developing their "instruments" under a very scientific aspect. one main thing that developed their sound and let them ignore classical structures was the use of card readers to play notes, which was more like a necessarity then a creative invention. it was not their main intention to make music. so i would call later developments the first types of electronic music, when they used the inventions from the 50s and 60s in a musical and creative way to intentionally make new music

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles It was a nice excursion IMO, other than the stupid bit about "experimental music has no soul."

no reason for such negativity

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