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-- Whats bugging me: Gear heads with crappy monitors.
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Hi guys, Funny to find a thread about me on here

Let me explain about the Thruths. I have been mixing my music so far on headphones. Sennheiser HD650s to be precise. The reason: The aucoustics in my old studio where incredibly bad. A long tube like room with a round soft side on the left and a straight glass side on the right. I had the Thruths actually to hear what my music sounds like on more Hifi like speakers in combination with a sub. So not to mix on, but to prevent me from adding too much bass. I'll keep them for that reason as well by the way. I'm moving now to a new studio that will be acoustically a lot better, so I'm testing out some new decent monitors now. And next time you want to know why someone does something, just sent them an E-mail and not speculate about it, they might just answer you But for monitors I'm open for suggestions

haha, ^^ pretty much raps up the thread

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Originally posted by synthnl Hi guys, Funny to find a thread about me on here Let me explain about the Thruths. I have been mixing my music so far on headphones. Sennheiser HD650s to be precise. The reason: The aucoustics in my old studio where incredibly bad. A long tube like room with a round soft side on the left and a straight glass side on the right. I had the Thruths actually to hear what my music sounds like on more Hifi like speakers in combination with a sub. So not to mix on, but to prevent me from adding too much bass. I'll keep them for that reason as well by the way. I'm moving now to a new studio that will be acoustically a lot better, so I'm testing out some new decent monitors now. And next time you want to know why someone does something, just sent them an E-mail and not speculate about it, they might just answer you But for monitors I'm open for suggestions

Hows the Juno 106? I'm thinking about getting one

I have a Juno 106. They are cool and have a very nice character to them. The bass you can get is very deep. Think old deep house music. Its also excellent for pads although there isn't much scope for creating anything interesting or evolving, just bread and butter sounds. The chorus sounds cool although very noisy. I would definately recomended. I paid �200 for a brand spanking new, basically unused 106 with manual and flight case. I was very lucky i suppose. this was only just before christmas.

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Originally posted by dannib I have a Juno 106. They are cool and have a very nice character to them. The bass you can get is very deep. Think old deep house music. Its also excellent for pads although there isn't much scope for creating anything interesting or evolving, just bread and butter sounds. The chorus sounds cool although very noisy. I would definately recomended. I paid �200 for a brand spanking new, basically unused 106 with manual and flight case. I was very lucky i suppose. this was only just before christmas.

Bloody hell that is cheap, cheers mate

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Originally posted by Ry Thomas Hows the Juno 106? I'm thinking about getting one

The Juno 106 is a great analog sounding aynthesizer, I personally love the Juno sound. But I would look a bit further and go for a Juno 60 if you have the chance. It really sounds a bit more analog even. It is deeper and warmer than the 106. The arpeggiator is a dream come true by the way. It is alive The only thing with it is that it doesn't have midi as standard, but you can use a Kenton DCB to midi converter or a retro fit midi kit for that.

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The chorus sounds cool although very noisy.

I would say you get an extra noise oscillator for free Ah well it creates a lot of vintage character for sure

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Originally posted by synthnl The Juno 106 is a great analog sounding aynthesizer, I personally love the Juno sound. But I would look a bit further and go for a Juno 60 if you have the chance. It really sounds a bit more analog even. It is deeper and warmer than the 106. The arpeggiator is a dream come true by the way. It is alive The only thing with it is that it doesn't have midi as standard, but you can use a Kenton DCB to midi converter or a retro fit midi kit for that.

Ok thanks for that mate

unbelievably my 60 quid missions blew up, and ive been using ipod headphones for a few weeks... hahaha

You may laugh, you may judge... but I made some stuff, and have played them on other formats and find the quality still pretty darn good...

basiclly, I disagree with you guys, and am saying you dont need to fork out a fortune on speakers, its all pretty much academic once youve spent a hundred quid or so. If music is good, it will sound good anywhere (even on a televsion)

but before I get hate mail its just an opinion!

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Originally posted by mark_gg_daniels unbelievably my 60 quid missions blew up, and ive been using ipod headphones for a few weeks... hahaha You may laugh, you may judge... but I made some stuff, and have played them on other formats and find the quality still pretty darn good... basiclly, I disagree with you guys, and am saying you dont need to fork out a fortune on speakers, its all pretty much academic once youve spent a hundred quid or so. If music is good, it will sound good anywhere (even on a televsion) but before I get hate mail its just an opinion!

True.

The only thing I'd like is to have a bit mor ebass response on my speakers (rolls of at 75Hz) but otherwise I am quite happy with my sister's old hifi speakers, which were part of a LG surround sound kit, which has out live 2x 32" TV and a Sony hifi.

Haha, I wonder what it is like to produce on fine speakers...

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Originally posted by synthnl The Juno 106 is a great analog sounding aynthesizer, I personally love the Juno sound. But I would look a bit further and go for a Juno 60 if you have the chance. It really sounds a bit more analog even. It is deeper and warmer than the 106. The arpeggiator is a dream come true by the way. It is alive The only thing with it is that it doesn't have midi as standard, but you can use a Kenton DCB to midi converter or a retro fit midi kit for that.

The Juno 60 is in many ways a poor-man's Jupiter 8. It has the same filter and envelopes. Only difference is the OSCs. The Juno 60 has a single analog chip OSC and I think a sub OSC whereas teh Jupiter 8 has two discrete OSCs. The Juno 60 also has DCB... an old version of MIDI that is easily converted to/from MIDI signals.

I've never used any of that old stuff, but it does interest me enough to do some research. I would get either a Juno 60 because of its a little brother to the Jupiter 8 or the Kawai SX-240 which has the same chorus chip as the Juno 106.

I find great monitors and a shitty room slight more ironic and retarded than great synths and bad monitors.

ok monitors and a good room will almost always yield better results than good monitors in a room with poor acoustics.

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Originally posted by RichieV ok monitors and a good room will almost always yield better results than good monitors in a room with poor acoustics.

Meh, I just don't agree with that. At least, not for me. I think this is really dependent on the individual.

My brain tends to try to compensate for monitors and environment... for me it's about what I'm used to, not what's best.

I don't know how well I'd do in a near-perfect environment, to be honest. Would my quality improve? Or would I struggle because EVERYTHING sounds good (or bad...) Hard to say.

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Originally posted by david.michael Meh, I just don't agree with that. At least, not for me. I think this is really dependent on the individual. My brain tends to try to compensate for monitors and environment... for me it's about what I'm used to, not what's best. I don't know how well I'd do in a near-perfect environment, to be honest. Would my quality improve? Or would I struggle because EVERYTHING sounds good (or bad...) Hard to say.

I agree somewhat

how does your brain account for phase cancellation ? How do you properly pan things when reflections will impact your decision. I guess i really depends on your use and the accuracy you need. I suppose if you are really close to your monitors and you are monitoring really loud, these intricacies won't be so prounanced but the excessive monitoring level itself will cause other problems.

I totally agree with you that what matters most is what you are used to. My coments were more based on the fact that people place such importance on monitors while ignoring the room which has such a profound impact.

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Originally posted by RichieV I totally agree with you that what matters most is what you are used to. My coments were more based on the fact that people place such importance on monitors while ignoring the room which has such a profound impact.

I hear ya there.

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Originally posted by RichieV I agree somewhat how does your brain account for phase cancellation ? How do you properly pan things when reflections will impact your decision. I guess i really depends on your use and the accuracy you need. I suppose if you are really close to your monitors and you are monitoring really loud, these intricacies won't be so prounanced but the excessive monitoring level itself will cause other problems. I totally agree with you that what matters most is what you are used to. My coments were more based on the fact that people place such importance on monitors while ignoring the room which has such a profound impact.

It's all personal preference but the brain has an incredible way of adjusting to environments - just think about all the background noise we're able to filter out without even realising. Go in to an anacohic chamber and you know what I mean.

You're going to have a tough time getting your brain to make crap monitors sound "better", so I'd prefer to have better monitors and let my brain help with the room.

This is all up to a point because if the room is just plain terrible no monitors will be able to help.

Lastly, it's way easier to upgrade your monitors than it is to change some rooms - yes, you can do very simple, small things to vastly improve the acoustics in a room but there isn't that much you can do if it's the wrong size etc.

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Originally posted by Subtle If u know your monitors really well it doesnt matter. I have crappy monitors myself (Alesis M1 MkII) But my mixes always translates nicely on all the sound systems i have tested them on, as long as they sound good in the monitors.

Completely agree here. Sean Tyas uses a pair of Behringer Truths and has done quite well with them. Its all about knowing your speakers.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN It's all personal preference but the brain has an incredible way of adjusting to environments - just think about all the background noise we're able to filter out without even realising. Go in to an anacohic chamber and you know what I mean. You're going to have a tough time getting your brain to make crap monitors sound "better", so I'd prefer to have better monitors and let my brain help with the room. This is all up to a point because if the room is just plain terrible no monitors will be able to help. Lastly, it's way easier to upgrade your monitors than it is to change some rooms - yes, you can do very simple, small things to vastly improve the acoustics in a room but there isn't that much you can do if it's the wrong size etc.

the point i wanted to stress is that room plays an important role and you can get much more out of low end speakers if your room is treated. Which is why i pointed out the irony of people with "expensive" speakers but really aren't using them to their potential because of the room.

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Originally posted by Magnus Completely agree here. Sean Tyas uses a pair of Behringer Truths and has done quite well with them. Its all about knowing your speakers.

True (even though I don't like his tracks) but I have to say that truths (unlike my opposite opinion for nearly all other Behringer gear) are great monitors and it's difficult for me to contemplate spending $1000 on monitors when they are that good for around $300.

Does anyone know: A year ago or so, Behringer changed the truths 2031a's to have a different facia (grey or black - can't remember which) - some have said that they sound different while others said there is no difference - anyone have an opinion?

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Originally posted by Magnus Completely agree here. Sean Tyas uses a pair of Behringer Truths and has done quite well with them. Its all about knowing your speakers.

Even with shitty acoustics you can still make great mixes.

I have one of my monitors in a corner, causing it to have a lot more bass than the other. But it doesnt bother me cause i find that extra bass to sound great, and im used to it.

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Originally posted by Subtle Even with shitty acoustics you can still make great mixes. I have one of my monitors in a corner, causing it to have a lot more bass than the other. But it doesnt bother me cause i find that extra bass to sound great, and im used to it.

I checked out your music. Back Crystal was my favorite song btw. Nice Work.

I thought your mixes were good but i wouldn't say great.Of course this might be due to experience and not necessarily a monitoring issue. Again my statement had nothing to do with whether it was possible to mix, it was a cost/benifit analysis concerning room treatment vs monitors. You buy monitors for accuracy but it is much harder to be accurate when your room is introducing all sorts of artifacts. My point was that spending 5000$ on monitors is stupid when you could get just as accurate monitoring for 2000$ including monitors and treatment.

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Originally posted by RichieV I checked out your music. Back Crystal was my favorite song btw. Nice Work. I thought your mixes were good but i wouldn't say great.Of course this might be due to experience and not necessarily a monitoring issue. Again my statement had nothing to do with whether it was possible to mix, it was a cost/benifit analysis concerning room treatment vs monitors. You buy monitors for accuracy but it is much harder to be accurate when your room is introducing all sorts of artifacts. My point was that spending 5000$ on monitors is stupid when you could get just as accurate monitoring for 2000$ including monitors and treatment.

That's a slightly different argument, which has been done to death on here. There is a point of diminishing returns with anything you buy, especially monitors, not to mention economies of scale. Mackie HR 824's are $1000 per pair and Focal twins are $3000 per pair. Yes the focals are better monitors but frankly if you can't do a good mix on mackies the Focals are not going to change that one bit. Are they $2000 better? That can only be answered by your ability to utilize that difference in quality.

However these things have a tipping point at dofferent price brackets.

For instance, I can't really understand anyone that spends $500 - $800 on monitors when you can pick up Truths for $300 which sound better than most in that bracket. Howver when you go to the $1000 mark you can get monitors that do definitely warrant the extra cash (824, 8030 etc.) But again, the moment you above that you're paying a lot more for very tiny increases in performance that just aren't worth it until you get in to the focal range.

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Originally posted by RichieV I checked out your music. Back Crystal was my favorite song btw. Nice Work. I thought your mixes were good but i wouldn't say great.Of course this might be due to experience and not necessarily a monitoring issue. Again my statement had nothing to do with whether it was possible to mix, it was a cost/benifit analysis concerning room treatment vs monitors. You buy monitors for accuracy but it is much harder to be accurate when your room is introducing all sorts of artifacts. My point was that spending 5000$ on monitors is stupid when you could get just as accurate monitoring for 2000$ including monitors and treatment.

Thanks for the compliment! yeah my mixes arent great.. but thats just me and my ears not making em good enough.

Yeah i get your point absolutely.

And its always adviced to have several listening stations like mp3 player or hifi system or whatever, you can double check your mixes on.

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Originally posted by Subtle Thanks for the compliment! yeah my mixes arent great.. but thats just me and my ears not making em good enough. Yeah i get your point absolutely. And its always adviced to have several listening stations like mp3 player or hifi system or whatever, you can double check your mixes on.

No believe me they are good. But when i say great, i'm thinking mixes you would expect from professional studio with seasoned engineers that have been doing it for 30 years.

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Originally posted by RichieV No believe me they are good. But when i say great, i'm thinking mixes you would expect from professional studio with seasoned engineers that have been doing it for 30 years.

I think i could have made those great mixes if i had the skills.
But in the end i really dont know, since what i use is the only thing i know.
Maybe if i got better monitors and threatment i would go like "wow this sounds alot better" and suddenly everything gets alot easier.
If i get loads of cash one day i might find out and never look back.

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