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I was using my friends MacBook today...

NO "HOME" OR "END" KEYS! WHAT THE FUCK!

Gayest laptop ever. I couldn't believe it.

Here we go again....

Bottom line is get what you want, both platforms are equally good. However, I feel the need to answer some of the questions posed in this thread...

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Originally posted by Sonic_c People say macs are more stable which is wrong they crash loads my sister is an animator and even she agrees.

Either platform can become unstable if you load it up with garbage. The only real advantage to OSX in this regard is that OSX does not use the concept of a "registry", which is a common source of problems on Windows machines. Uninstalling programs is easier because you basically just drag it to the trash, unlike Windows where you must "uninstall" programs which is supposed to remove registry settings and files used by the program being uninstalled. The problem is that many developers are lazy and don't always clean up very well when their software is uninstalled from a Windows PC. If you get enough of these situations, over time the registry gets a lot of useless keys and that makes it possible to cause various problems.

A well maintained machine will be stable regardless of platform. Run a dedicated studio machine and don't load it up with any software that is not necessary for your production work and you'll be fine.

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Originally posted by Sonic_c Macbooks are expensive

Yes. Part of what you are paying for is the design, but they also generally use high quality components that similar laptop's from PC manufacturers. Apple's "baseline" machines are roughly equivalent to "high performance" or "luxury" machines from other manufacturers. Apple has positioned themselves as a "luxury" brand, and, as such, they charge a premium for their products. Instead of having 20 different models of notebook, like HP or DELL, Apple offers just 3 different models, all of which would be considered "high performance" by PC manufacturers. They don't mess around with "budget" machines. The closest thing they have is the low end iMac.

The thing is most people just don't know the difference between the components. Most people don't know why a XEON processors are better than the non-XEON processors, or why FB DIMMS are better than standard DIMMs, so they don't get why Macs cost more. The truth is that, these things are faster and efficient, hence they cost Apple more, which means they have to charge higher prices.

You can still get a PC with the same specs as a MBP, but it is going to be in the same price range.

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Originally posted by Sonic_c difficult to upgrade

This is true for all laptops because by nature, most of the components in a laptop are built on to the board. PC or Mac, usually the only thing you can upgrade is the RAM and the Hard Disks. On a MacBook/Pro you can only upgrade the RAM, where as most PC's give you the ability to upgrade both the RAM and the Hard Disk. There is a way to upgrade the Hard Disk on a MacBook, but it involves taking the thing apart, which is not advisable.

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Originally posted by Sonic_c and dont have a right click button???

True, but you can Ctrl-CLick to get the same functionality. You get used to it.

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Originally posted by Subtle Pro`s mostly use MAC because it is "the best" brand of a computer, and because they can afford it of course.

As I stated above, the Mac Pro baseline machine uses better hardware than most PC manufacturers base machines. You can get a machine from HP or Dell with the same specs as the base Mac Pro, but it will be just as expensive. The Mac Pro is a server-class machine, which is why it is so expensive. XEON Processors, FB-DIMMs, all these things are a lot more expensive then their consumer counterparts.

Keep in mind that the offerings from PC manufacturers like HP and Dell that compare with the Mac Pro are certain available, but they are not considered their base machine, they are considered "high performance" machines, and are priced accordingly. Apple just doesn't mess around with low-priced, low-speced machines. They offer one high-powered desktop computer and that's it.

Most "pros" buy this machine for one of three reasons:

1. They have and always will be most comfortable with Mac.

2. They want a high powered machine and don't want to mess around with building it themselves, which I TOTALLY understand.

3. They want to run Logic, which is only for the Mac platform.

Twice on this board I have posted a PC configured with the exact same components as the base line Mac Pro, and the price was the same. Most of what you pay for in the Mac Pro and MBP is the processors and the Motherboard to host them.

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Originally posted by Subtle The difference between the two is the operating system, and you can run Windows on a MAC too.

Exactly, I run a Windows Virtual Machine on my MBP and it works a treat!

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Originally posted by owien mainly because the pc is still very user friendly compared to the mac.

That's purely a matter of opinion. I can find 50 people who will agree with you and another 50 who will say the Mac is more user friendly.

I own and use both on a daily basis, and I can write a LONG post on what features are better on each platform. OSX has things like Spaces which is extremely useful and built right into the OS. Windows has an outstanding explorer view, which OSX has yet to match. I can go on and on...

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Originally posted by owien almost any software you install on to a pc will work.

What is that supposed to mean? Any software for the Mac that you install works as well. I mean, that's sort of the point, isn't it? Whether software works well or not is purely a matter of the quality of the development, not the platform on which it runs.

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Originally posted by owien apart from the normal bugs that everbody puts up with . makes the pc a all round better investment.

I don't know about you, but I don't put up with any bugs on either platform. If the software is buggy, it doesn't get used. Period. There are plenty of alternatives for most tasks you with to accomplish.

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Originally posted by Storyteller If you really need a mac you would find out during class why it is you need one as you're using a mac right there. If that doesn't make it a clear decision there is no use in choosing a mac over pc.

Storyteller is exactly right, almost. Basically there are only two CONCRETE reasons why you would be forced to choose a Mac over a PC.

1. You want to run software that only runs on the Mac platform (i.e. Logic).

2. You prefer to use a Mac with OSX to accomplish a task or tasks.

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Originally posted by WhatTF Or get a PC and run OS X on it.

This is generally a bad idea. Feel free to try it, but really your studio DAW is probably the LAST place you want to be doing anything experimental such as this if you want to get any work done. You're pretty much asking for trouble if you try this, not to mention the fact that it violates Apples' EULA.

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Originally posted by Subtle And with Windows 7 seemingly being everything Vista was not, i think PC has a very bright future.

I think you are right here. Windows 7 will likely have wide adoption and not suffer the same fate as Vista. The thing that no one outside the IT industry talks about is that, while Vista is lambasted for being unstable and resource hungry, Windows Server 2008, which is the server version of Vista, is an OUTSTANDING piece of OS software. Even the UNIX geeks are talking about how well designed it is.

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Originally posted by Subtle Im sure if you buy a regular mouse you can configure it to use both buttons.

Exactly. When I bought my Mac, I bought a Logitech mouse and never even took the Mighty Mouse out of the box. The Logitech has like 6 or 7 buttons, all of which are configurable in OSX Preferences. Personally, I just didn't like the feel of the Mighty Mouse.

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Originally posted by echosystm I was using my friends MacBook today... NO "HOME" OR "END" KEYS! WHAT THE FUCK!

Yes there is, but it is an alternative function. You use Apple-Left Arrow for Home, and Apple-Right Arrow for end. It's just a different way of working. I liked working that way so much, I changed my PC's to exhibit the same functionality, the home and end keys are not always in the same place on laptop keyboards, and that is annoying.

you must have been bored.. Great post tho, great info.

system preferences > keyboard & mouse > mouse > primary/secondary mouse buttons

no ctrl click, no hassle, two buttons. on a one button mouse.

or trackpad > two fingers for secondary click for laptop

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Originally posted by jupiterone trackpad > two fingers for secondary click for laptop

i love this feature on my macbook, so much easier than right clicking those annoying PC right clickers...

and yeah, there's a right click on mac mouses too, just need to be activated, or just plug in a PC mouse to a mac, and it works a treat

quote:

Originally posted by jupiterone or trackpad > two fingers for secondary click for laptop

Yeah I always forget about tapping with 2 fingers. That also reminds me of another pioneering feature in the MacBooks, two-finger scrolling. So much better than that "scroll zone" stuff on Dell PC's.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J The thing is most people just don't know the difference between the components. Most people don't know why a XEON processors are better than the non-XEON processors, or why FB DIMMS are better than standard DIMMs, so they don't get why Macs cost more. The truth is that, these things are faster and efficient, hence they cost Apple more, which means they have to charge higher prices.

Server cpu's are build for reliability and have build-in error checkings which slow it down, something you don't need on your home computer. Most server cpu's are used with alot of processors like 48-core server pc's and that's where ECC memory is really needed. You don't want your servers to crash and that's what they are made for.

A single desktop intel core i7 is faster than 2 x Xeon Cpu's, that's the truth

here we go again, but fortunately this part of TA is now platform wars free, most of the time

a Mac is a pc with a different OS on it. End of story. Many still rely on Windows xp and/or vista because they got used to it, that's GREAT. I'm left handed, and studies prove that left handed people tend to like Mac OS more, which is my case, so GREAT. But I didn't forget that many of my past records were made on a windows 3.11 app called cakewalk...

You should have a mac so you can run both systems. If you don't like Mac OS, don't get a Mac, and the bill will be cheaper. This is a Mac User posting here, and I now want you to do one single thing: listen to yourself and not others, whether they're mac or pc.

If people weren't arguing on forums at times, things would get better in their lives, if things got better in their lives, they'd be working harder, get more money off work, and then spend more money, be part of their local economy, that would make a huge growth of employment. Stop arguing, start working.

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Originally posted by Eric J Yes there is, but it is an alternative function.

I use those keys far too much to put up with this gayness. On this alone, I would never buy a Mac.

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Originally posted by echosystm I was using my friends MacBook today... NO "HOME" OR "END" KEYS! WHAT THE FUCK! Gayest laptop ever. I couldn't believe it.

whats that shit do anyway

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Originally posted by Lolo Stop arguing, start working.

I think that's the Bottom line (Greatly said Lolo)

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Originally posted by mysticalninja whats that shit do anyway

Goes to the end or start of a line. I use them more than alt or caps lock lol.

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Originally posted by Timothy A single desktop intel core i7 is faster than 2 x Xeon Cpu's, that's the truth

Thats true today because the i7's just came out. When I bought my Mac the XEON was the fastest. Now the word is Apple is preparing to release the new line of Mac Pro with, you guessed it, i7 processors.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Now the word is Apple is preparing to release the new line of Mac Pro with, you guessed it, i7 processors.

Any idea when the new line of Mac Pro's will be out?

It's just that I'm making the move to Mac's next month, I don't want to spend �2,000 on a laptop if a better model is going to be out in the near future.

Any info would be appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by Acton Any idea when the new line of Mac Pro's will be out? It's just that I'm making the move to Mac's next month, I don't want to spend �2,000 on a laptop if a better model is going to be out in the near future. Any info would be appreciated.

My information above is in regards to the new line of Mac Pro's, not MacBook Pro's. They just released the new versions of the MacBook/MacBook Pro, so it is doubtful that they will be upgrading their line of notebook products for at least a year.

2.9 Ghz dual core Macbookpro will do me. I'm moving to mac when I get a new computer and running windows. I currently have a toshiba satellite and the thing's two years old this month and is DYING. I can't do anything with it any more because it seems the mainboard and graphics card is fried.

My brother had the same computer and it stopped working completely, so when he sent it to get repaired they replaced the whole motherboard, graphics card (I think) RAM... Apparently, so much dust had gotten into the fans, that it just baked the whole computer.

I never hear about these sorts of problems with apple so I'm gonna grab a computer that lasts more than 2 years without performance being impacted

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips 2.9 Ghz dual core Macbookpro will do me. I'm moving to mac when I get a new computer and running windows. I currently have a toshiba satellite and the thing's two years old this month and is DYING. I can't do anything with it any more because it seems the mainboard and graphics card is fried. My brother had the same computer and it stopped working completely, so when he sent it to get repaired they replaced the whole motherboard, graphics card (I think) RAM... Apparently, so much dust had gotten into the fans, that it just baked the whole computer. I never hear about these sorts of problems with apple so I'm gonna grab a computer that lasts more than 2 years without performance being impacted

My wife has the same problems with her Toshiba laptop. We have to periodically blow all the dust out of the processor vents using compressed air or the thing will overheat and shut down on her. Apparently, this is fairly common with the Satellite series.

The Apple hardware is definitely top notch. You will notice that the MBP can get pretty hot on the bottom if you are running anything processor intensive, but it is nothing to worry about.

See this is what i needed a comprehensive run down as to why macs are so higly regarded. Thanks eric now im considering whether there could be benefits of having one and logic especially because the college will sort me out a volume license . It could well be the fact i am not used to mighty mouse etc that I dont enjoy working on one but if theyt are a premium product then that can only mean good things. I see in music you nearly always get what you pay for. One more question right now i have a pci sound card and if i got a macbook I would have to stick to onboard sound while i saved for motu. Whats the onboard sound like?

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J My information above is in regards to the new line of Mac Pro's, not MacBook Pro's. They just released the new versions of the MacBook/MacBook Pro, so it is doubtful that they will be upgrading their line of notebook products for at least a year.

Ah right, cheers.

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Originally posted by Sonic_c See this is what i needed a comprehensive run down as to why macs are so higly regarded. Thanks eric now im considering whether there could be benefits of having one and logic especially because the college will sort me out a volume license .

If you want Logic, you have to run OSX, period. Keep in mind that the PC manufacturers do offer machines configured with similar specs to the macs, as mentioned above. They just generally don't promote them as much as their "budget" models.

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Originally posted by Sonic_c I see in music you nearly always get what you pay for.

Nowhere is that more true than when dealing with technology. If something is cheap, there is a reason, and you usually wont like it.

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Originally posted by Sonic_c One more question right now i have a pci sound card and if i got a macbook I would have to stick to onboard sound while i saved for motu. Whats the onboard sound like?

I mean, it works. Its not a good as a proper sound card, but it will work in the meantime. The nice thing about OSX is that Core Audio is built into the operating system, so things like internal sound cards use the same code base as a proper audio interface, so there is more efficiency processing audio with an internal sound card than there would otherwise be in a Windows machine using a built in sound card with out ASIO or WDM drivers. That being said, you still should buy at least a simple audio interface. The Apogee Duet is outstanding is you only need 2 in / 2 out.

Yeah problem is i Just bought an Emu 0404 and next would have to be a 8in/out as Im wanting to have my synths connected and possibly a desk and a mic. Thanks for info though your post was why I made the thread I could see that there must be some advantages but no one was telling me what they were they were just saying "you will know when you get one". Thanks

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Originally posted by Sonic_c Yeah problem is i Just bought an Emu 0404 and next would have to be a 8in/out as Im wanting to have my synths connected and possibly a desk and a mic. Thanks for info though your post was why I made the thread I could see that there must be some advantages but no one was telling me what they were they were just saying "you will know when you get one". Thanks

OK, so why not just get a Mac Pro desktop? Its actually a bit cheaper and you get more for your money in terms of power and expandability.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J My wife has the same problems with her Toshiba laptop. We have to periodically blow all the dust out of the processor vents using compressed air or the thing will overheat and shut down on her. Apparently, this is fairly common with the Satellite series. The Apple hardware is definitely top notch. You will notice that the MBP can get pretty hot on the bottom if you are running anything processor intensive, but it is nothing to worry about.

So how long do you think a macbook can go for without starting to burn out? It seems like most PCs tend to burn out after 1.5-3 years, and theres really no cure for it. I'm assuming its because of cumulative heat damage, especially in hot countries like australia.

Will a macbook last me longer do you think?

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Originally posted by kitphillips So how long do you think a macbook can go for without starting to burn out? It seems like most PCs tend to burn out after 1.5-3 years, and theres really no cure for it. I'm assuming its because of cumulative heat damage, especially in hot countries like australia. Will a macbook last me longer do you think?

Well thats all going to be subjective. I mean the MacBook is no different than any other notebook as far as durability. If you take good care of it, then it should last you for quite a while. If you gig with it, it will probably burn out quicker then if you keep it at home all the time. That's going to be true of any notebook, regardless of manufacturer.

I have had my Dell Desktop PC for almost 5 years now and it is still just fine. No problems whatsoever. I also have a PowerEdge server that I have had for almost 4 years and it's also just fine, so I'm not sure why you are thinking that most PC's burn out in 3 years. Its just like anything else, if you take good care of it, it will last you a long time. A well cared for machine will most likely become obsolete long before any of the components physically fail.

The problem you mentioned is specific to Toshiba Satellite notebooks, and actually to their A70 series notebooks. There was even a class-action lawsuit filed against Toshiba regarding the overheating problem on their A70 series notebooks.

If you are looking for a good class of notebook in the PC arena, try checking out HP or Dell's line of business class notebooks. Those notebooks are generally going to be built better than cheap consumer notebooks and are probably going to be more suited for the type of processor-intensive tasks we are all doing. Ditto for desktops.

The problem is that when people who don't know research PC's, they always look at the "Home" offerings when really you should be considering the business class products for studio use, because they are generally better suited for production work. The business class stuff is going to be more expensive than the home stuff, for sure, but it's built with better quality components.

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