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-- creationism making a comeback in texas
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Originally posted by Capitalizt Thanks, and yes indeed they are wackos in my opinion..The core beliefs of mainstream christians have just as much factual backing as the Fang people of Cameroon. I consider that wacky. Ah but there is all the difference in the world between holding a belief that can be debated based on historical data and observing human behavior (economic issues) and holding a belief that not debatable, period. You can debate the merits of capitalism vs communism in a classroom but you can't debate evolution vs "God did it" because the "God did it" side has no evidence at all..nothing to bring forward except the repetition of old myths and faith in events that go against every observable phenomena in the natural world.

You're a fucking dunce. It's called "belief" and "faith" and not "empirical fact" for a reason.

People hate out-spoken atheistic religion-bashers (aka you) for two reasons:
1. You equate any belief labeled religious with the most radical beliefs you've ever heard... yet commonly use non-religious belief in argumentation.
2. You're a complete elitist snob about your belief that no God exists. You can't prove that either, yet hold yourself in such high esteem, that obviously YOUR belief is far superior than the beliefs of others, and you aren't afraid to call others stupid for it.

It's really fucking annoying to see you thrash around in some pseudo-intellectual witch hunt when you're obviously talking about something you don't understand. You're not religious? Great. Good for you. Glad you're at peace with that. If I'm wrong about religion, and God doesn't exist, then oh well. I was wrong. If you're wrong, and God does exist, I'm glad you can make peace with that.

lez you really seem to misunderstand...This whole debate isn't about confusing "faith" with "fact". It is about teaching FAITH as FACT to a captive audience. It's about lowering learning standards so dramatically that the two theories of life (evolution and creationism) are treated as equally viable alternatives. They are NOT equally viable in a scientific sense, and the only way to make an argument against a teaching a theory with no scientific evidence is to point out how absurdly weak it is.

P.S. I'm not an atheist. I'm just against man-made religion..There's a difference. Pure, blind atheism is just as irrational as blind faith. Atheism shouldn't be taught to 6-year olds because there are no cold-hard facts that prove God's doesn't exist. Likewise, theism shouldn't be taught for the same reason. There are however plenty of cold hard facts that prove evolution is a reality, so it SHOULD be taught as fact until contrary evidence is found. The "God did it" hypothesis has no scientific basis. It shouldn't be treated as a serious subject in science and it most certainly should not be taught in the classroom. End of story.

I'm sorry, do you hate all Christians or just the minority that believe creationism? You're really being inconsistent with who you're attacking. Nobody in this thread has promoted the advancement of creationism as a theory, but you're calling all Christians "wackos"... so... which is it?

I have nothing at all against creationists who keep their beliefs to themselves. I might think the beliefs are stupid, but it's their right to hold them. The problem comes when they try to imposing them on a defenseless audience. That was the reason pk made this thread (I think)...to draw attention to those shenanigans.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov ... If I'm wrong about religion, and God doesn't exist, then oh well. I was wrong. If you're wrong, and God does exist, I'm glad you can make peace with that.

Pascals wager anyone?

If you're right about God, but wrong about which one, I'm glad you can make peace with that. Its like a needle in a haystack, and by that logic theres reason to assume you're likely worshiping the wrong god all together!

pascal's wager is only good for children.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN pascal's wager is only good for children.

Indeed and I'm wary its the type of nonsense some teachers might hold over the impressionable kids in Texas.

Pascal's wager is great... It just leaves out the fact that yes, you might be worshiping the wrong God.

However it isn't a Christian philosophy, it's to distinguish between theism and atheism. Still super problematic of course.

Worship the Great Architect. All religion tries to do is identify who/what that supernatural essence is. I think the Mason's got it down.

If god did it, god did it through evolution, period.

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Originally posted by Alex Pascal's wager is great...

no it isn't. it's basically an idea to make you dishonest

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no it isn't. it's basically an idea to make you dishonest

I don't see the dishonesty. I see it as being lacking in finding absolute truth, of course.

If you want to use it to determine whether you want to believe in God or not fine, but it wont help in discerning which God is the right one obviously.

It basically suggests people feign a belief they don't hold in order to escape eternal punishment.

I guess I could see how that might seem ridiculous, still seems like the safer choice overall.

and how might one fool an all-powerful deity into believing that i believe in them?

quote:

Originally posted by Alex If you want to use it to determine whether you want to believe in God or not fine

You are religious right?

Try to make yourself not believe in God, then see how dumb it is to assume an atheist could truly change his beliefs just so the odds will be in his favor when he dies

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN and how might one fool an all-powerful deity into believing that i believe in them?

You cant, I was talking about actually genuinely believing.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail You are religious right? Try to make yourself not believe in God, then see how dumb it is to assume an atheist could truly change his beliefs just so the odds will be in his favor when he dies

Of course you're right, it was also partly a joke

quote:

Originally posted by Alex You cant, I was talking about actually genuinely believing.

but how do you go about making yourself believe something?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN but how do you go about making yourself believe something?

I don't know.

I used to be an Atheist and then for whatever reason I changed and became a Theist. I cant explain why, if anyone could offer a rational explanation (by rational I mean non personal experience, and based on empirical evidence) everyone would be theists.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail You are religious right? Try to make yourself not believe in God, then see how dumb it is to assume an atheist could truly change his beliefs just so the odds will be in his favor when he dies

All faith is founded upon doubt - it's the only healthy kind.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex I don't know. I used to be an Atheist and then for whatever reason I changed and became a Theist. I cant explain why, if anyone could offer a rational explanation (by rational I mean non personal experience, and based on empirical evidence) everyone would be theists.

Ditto for me.

Belief isn't supposed to be perfect - it's why in Islam the cornerstone of faith is jihad, or "struggle".

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Ditto for me.

jesus, really? (haha, no pun intended.)

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Ditto for me. Belief isn't supposed to be perfect - it's why in Islam the cornerstone of faith is jihad, or "struggle".

My priest told me once that a good Christian doubts, and I've held to that ever since.

By the way, if you don't mind me asking, are you Christian? I assume that's what it is if you're from the US, but that's generalizing on my part.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN jesus, really? (haha, no pun intended.)

I'd consider myself a spiritual person but not necessarily a religious one. I am not a Christian by doctrine, but I do believe in a higher power of some sort.

I had a falling out with organized religion in high school, and there was definitely a period where I didn't really believe in anything... but as I've gotten a bit older, I've come to believe that there's more to life than human agency. To put it in other words, I believe in fate, and I believe that something or someone (God) ordains that fate. I don't think fate is present in all of our actions, but I do think people are set on a path, and that at times outside forces intervene in human lives. It's hard to explain, but I believe I've felt this in my own life on a few occasions.

That said, I don't give much thought to stories in the Bible about Jesus turning water into wine and the like - maybe he did, maybe he didn't. What I do believe is that he was put on Earth by God as an example to follow. Be fair, compassionate toward others, refrain from jealousy and pettiness. Most of Jesus' behavior fell in line with the Aristotelian virtues. I'll be honest to say that I struggle with the idea of him being the son of God... I don't discount the possibility, and I can't think of any human being consistently capable of the virtues he attained.

But like I said, to me, faith is a series of questions, and a personal struggle to find answers.

im almost as speechless as when i found out shaolin was a 911 conspiracy theorist.

well, i hope your faith serves you well. i shall try and protect you when the atheist revolution comes and we're putting your kind up against the wall

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