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-- Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary
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Originally posted by Krypton When a country invades and occupies another country, that is a war of aggression. Not only did we support warlords in opposition to the ICU, but took part in the invasion of Somalia by dropping bombs. Why the hell are we even involved over there in the first place. Did Somalia attack us at any time? No. We are not the god damn policeman of the world. I'm not calling for isolationism, but FFS, we need to let some of these countries handle their own problems.

i absolutely agree we shouldn't police the world. i don't like the fact that our military force has turned into a global police force. Nevertheless, supporting a regime that wages war against another country does not mean we have unclean hands in the matter.

As for dropping bombs in that war, from what i've read we didn't drop bombs in tactical support for Ethiopia; rather, we targeted al qaeda positions. Your disbelief (which i suspect applies to that claim) of everything published by the US government doesn't mean that it isn't true.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Everything wrong in this world is somehow connected to something done by the US? Straw man argument for the lose. I'll grant you this. A lot of shit that is going down in the world, we do have our hands in. Case #1, the propagation of Islamic fundamentalism. It didn't spring up for fun or because they hate our freedom. My focus on these issues is not because I'm anti-American or any of that nonsense. It's because the root causes of these very serious international issues, many times, starts with us and our actions. You can't invade and occupy a country without a resistance forming in that country and public opinion being strongly against you, and that motivating angry young men to become terrorists, etc etc. Oddly, most of you ignore the consequences of our actions. And I never ever have said America is inherently bad. But I don't stand for bullshit especially when my country, in my name, kills thousands of people who had nothing to do with 9/11.

Since you say "straw man argument" all the time, perhaps you should use it correctly next time. I wasn't arguing against anything you said by advancing my OPINION that I think you believe everything is america's fault. If I'm not countering anything you are positing, it can't be a straw man argument.

As to the rest of your post, being involved doesn't make us primarily responsible for anything. Also, being indirectly involved likely doesn't even make us responsible for anything. These conflict zones weren't mapped out by the US so that we could expand our "empire." People all around the world love to fight and fighting would continue regardless of the existence of the US.

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Originally posted by Krypton I'm not talking about the 90's. I'm talking about when the ICC took over Mogadishu and instituted some semblance of order, and got rid of pirates in their territory. Only to have a US-backed Ethiopian invasion and occupation of the country.

Dude.

quote:

Captain jumps overboard, SEALs shoot pirates, official says The American captain of a cargo ship held hostage by pirates jumped overboard from the lifeboat where he was being held, and U.S. Navy SEALs shot and killed three of his four captors, according to a senior U.S. official with knowledge of the situation. Capt. Richard Phillips was helped out of the water off the Somali coast and is uninjured and in good condition, the official said. He was taken aboard the USS Bainbridge, a nearby naval warship. At the time of the shootings, the fourth pirate was aboard the Bainbridge negotiating with officials, the source said. That pirate was taken into custody. Maersk Line Limited, owner of the cargo ship that Phillips captained, issued a statement saying it was informed at 1:30 p.m. by the U.S. government that he had been rescued. John Reinhart, president and CEO, called Phillips' wife, Andrea, to tell her the good news. Crew members from the ship, the Maersk Alabama, were "jubilant" when they received word, the statement says. "We are all absolutely thrilled to learn that Richard is safe and will be re-united with his family," Reinhart said. "Maersk Line Limited is deeply grateful to the Navy, the FBI and so many others for their tireless efforts to secure Richard's freedom." "We look forward to welcoming him home in the coming days," Reinhart added. Earlier Sunday, Maersk said the U.S. Navy had informed the company that it had sighted Phillips in the lifeboat where the pirates were holding him. A man who answered the door at Phillips' home in Underhill, Vermont, on Sunday afternoon told CNN's Stephanie Elam that the family had known the news for hours. He said details would have to come from Virginia, apparently referring to Maersk's home base in Norfolk. On Saturday, the FBI launched a criminal investigation into the hijacking of the U.S.-flagged cargo ship by Somali pirates, two law enforcement officials told CNN. The probe will be led by the FBI's New York field office, which is responsible for looking into cases involving U.S. citizens in the African region, the officials said. Snippets of information started to emerge Saturday about how the Maersk Alabama's crew managed to retake the ship after it was hijacked by pirates Wednesday about 350 miles off the coast of Somalia in the Indian Ocean. The Alabama reached port in Mombasa, Kenya,on Saturday. Crew members aboard the freed cargo ship described how some of their colleagues attempted to "jump" their pirate captors. A scuffle ensued and one of the sailors stabbed a pirate in the hand in the battle to retake the container ship, one of the sailors told CNN. Crew members smiled broadly as they stood on the ship's deck under the watchful eyes of security teams. Although the crew was kept away from the media, CNN's Stan Grant got close enough to ask crew members what happened after the pirates climbed aboard the ship. One crew member said he recalled being awakened around 7 a.m. as the hijacking began. View a timeline of the attack and its aftermath � "I was scared," Grant quoted the man as saying. Some of the crew managed to hide in a secure part of the Alabama as the pirates stormed the ship, the sailor said. As the sailors described their clash with the pirates, a crew member pointed to one shipmate and said, "This guy is a hero. He and the chief engineer, they took down the pirate. ... He led him down there to the engine room and then they jumped him." The shipmate added that he stabbed the pirate's hand and tied him up. "Capt. Phillips is a hero," another crew member shouted from the deck of the freed ship. An earlier attempt by Phillips to escape from the 28-foot covered lifeboat was thwarted by a pirate, who dove into the Indian Ocean after him. Phillips' captors appear to have tied him up afterward, Pentagon officials said. Maersk CEO Reinhart told reporters Saturday that the crew will stay on board in Mombasa while the FBI conducts an investigation. http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/afric...ates/index.html

I'm guessing that some people still won't be happy with the outcome. I'm just glad we didn't pay these scumbags, further inviting more attacks. Now get some guns on these ships.

Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss So... what's going on here? Obama refuses to comment on the situation (because, you know, making tough deicsions might affect poll numbers), Biden refuses to comment on the situation, John Kerry is calling for hearings on policy regarding piracy (I'm sure that's going to make the guys with guns quake in the boots), and Hillary.... well, when asked about it she got a little overwhelmed with laughter about the issue:

Great job by obama in the rescue of the captured captain.

Obama saved the ship captain's life.

HOORAY FOR OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Alex Obama saved the ship captain's life. HOORAY FOR OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!

Your wrong here. Obama is pissed that 3 of the pirates were killed over an American. Dont forget these pirates have civil rights in a Liberals eyes. What a shame says a Liberal, they deserve a second chance too..... Maybe they could have been sent to America to live.

quote:

Originally posted by BARS-N-STARS Your wrong here. Obama is pissed that 3 of the pirates were killed over an American. Dont forget these pirates have civil rights in a Liberals eyes. What a shame says a Liberal, they deserve a second chance too..... Maybe they could have been sent to America to live.

This is the stupid comment of the day. Congrats.

i have the calendar!

AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!

Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 Great job by obama in the rescue of the captured captain.

What's the issue here? It's a fact that at the time when asked about the escalating situation, Obama refused to comment twice. It's a fact Biden refused to comment. It's a fact Kerry's idea was to hold hearings, and a fact that Hillary went into a laugh-fest when asked about it. All very un-presidential.

A couple days later, Obama issued the use of force, and the SEALs took out the barbarians when it appeared they were going to shoot the Captain. Kudos to Obama for ordering the use of force, and double kudos to the SEALs for being badass mothafuckas!

Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

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Originally posted by The17sss What's the issue here? It's a fact that at the time when asked about the escalating situation, Obama refused to comment twice. It's a fact Biden refused to comment. It's a fact Kerry's idea was to hold hearings, and a fact that Hillary went into a laugh-fest when asked about it. All very un-presidential.

Three of those people aren't president. The one who is refused to comment during a press conference on a different topic. Is this really where you'd like to wage your battle against the administration?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Three of those people aren't president.

so it doesn't matter that not so long ago those three imbeciles were everybody's first and second picks to be president?

thats my beef anyway.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

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Originally posted by Q5echo so it doesn't matter that not so long ago those three imbeciles were everybody's first and second picks to be president? thats my beef anyway.

I guess I don't get your beef. They aren't President, so why get mad when they don't act "Presidential"? That seems silly. And who defines what Presidential is? In the case of Obama, prudence could be a Presidential quality, no?

edit: and what exactly did you guys expect Kerry to do? Sign an Executive Order? He's Chair of the Foreign Relations Committee - of course he's going to hold hearings.

Honestly, whenever I'm feeling a bit glum about Obama's job performance, I come to the PDD to see the minuscule irrelevant things conservatives froth about, and I immediately feel a lot better about how things are going. I still side with Sachs and Krugman on the economy, but seeing you and the17sss fall over yourselves desperately looking for things to harp about is really quite satisfying.

Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

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Originally posted by The17sss What's the issue here? It's a fact that at the time when asked about the escalating situation, Obama refused to comment twice. It's a fact Biden refused to comment. It's a fact Kerry's idea was to hold hearings, and a fact that Hillary went into a laugh-fest when asked about it. All very un-presidential. A couple days later, Obama issued the use of force, and the SEALs took out the barbarians when it appeared they were going to shoot the Captain. Kudos to Obama for ordering the use of force, and double kudos to the SEALs for being badass mothafuckas!

Why should he comment on an ongoing hostage situation? Do you want the hostage to die because of something he said? Does it occur to you the pirates listen to the news?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

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Originally posted by Krypton Why should he comment on an ongoing hostage situation? Do you want the hostage to die because of something he said? Does it occur to you the pirates listen to the news?

+ 1

You give the pirates the time of day as POTUS you are guaranteeing a longer standoff because of the additional attention drawn to the scene.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov I guess I don't get your beef.

honestly, my one gripe is Hillary Clinton as Sec. of State. she has waaaaayyyy too much self interest involved being America's top diplomat and isn't near smart enough.

Kerry and Biden, whatever positions of power they hold, are irrelevant to the extent they keep their traps shut. what is amazing is that all of them were under the American people's impression they were ready on day one. and like i said that's not ancient history

you find catharsis by coming here and watching us fall all over each other? fine. i pick up the paper or turn on the news and thank God everyday these fucksticks didn't get what people like you originally wanted.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Why should he comment on an ongoing hostage situation? Do you want the hostage to die because of something he said? Does it occur to you the pirates listen to the news?

+1

although he sould have said "i'm going to kill them...i'm going to kill every last one of these mutherfukkers." like Shaft

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

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Originally posted by Q5echo honestly, my one gripe is Hillary Clinton as Sec. of State. she has waaaaayyyy too much self interest involved being America's top diplomat and isn't near smart enough. Kerry and Biden, whatever positions of power they hold, are irrelevant to the extent they keep their traps shut. what is amazing is that all of them were under the American people's impression they were ready on day one. and like i said that's not ancient history you find catharsis by coming here and watching us fall all over each other? fine. i pick up the paper or turn on the news and thank God everyday these fucksticks didn't get what people like you originally wanted.

this was my point. exactly. All of those goons would have been supported by Lebez and the rest as being ready on day one if they were elected... and this wasn't 25 years ago. It's hilarious that the Dems are talking junk about the things Conservatives and Republicans are bringing up, when for the better part of 8 years, Bush couldn't sneeze without getting torn to shreads.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss this was my point. exactly. All of those goons would have been supported by Lebez and the rest as being ready on day one if they were elected... and this wasn't 25 years ago. It's hilarious that the Dems are talking junk about the things Conservatives and Republicans are bringing up, when for the better part of 8 years, Bush couldn't sneeze without getting torn to shreads.

That's because the guy couldn't sneeze without invading some country.

There is an unconfirmed report coming from my anus that Barack Obama saved the ship captain by Chuck Norrising the 3 pirates.

Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss What's the issue here? It's a fact that at the time when asked about the escalating situation, Obama refused to comment twice. It's a fact Biden refused to comment. It's a fact Kerry's idea was to hold hearings, and a fact that Hillary went into a laugh-fest when asked about it. All very un-presidential. A couple days later, Obama issued the use of force, and the SEALs took out the barbarians when it appeared they were going to shoot the Captain. Kudos to Obama for ordering the use of force, and double kudos to the SEALs for being badass mothafuckas!

the point was obama had NOTHING to do with saving this guy. It was the military people who were controlling everything. It is just as stupid to credit obama with saving his life as it is to blame obama for his capture or the failure of a rescue.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

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Originally posted by Q5echo Hillary Clinton .........isn't near smart enough.

that's bullshit. apparently two of the most prominent american universities disagreed with you.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo honestly, my one gripe is Hillary Clinton as Sec. of State. she has waaaaayyyy too much self interest involved being America's top diplomat and isn't near smart enough.

Ok.

quote:

Kerry and Biden, whatever positions of power they hold, are irrelevant to the extent they keep their traps shut. what is amazing is that all of them were under the American people's impression they were ready on day one. and like i said that's not ancient history

Which is exactly what they're being criticized for in this thread, no? That Biden had no comment and that Kerry did nothing other than call for a hearing? Which way would you like it?

quote:

you find catharsis by coming here and watching us fall all over each other? fine. i pick up the paper or turn on the news and thank God everyday these fucksticks didn't get what people like you originally wanted.

The election of Barack Obama?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Somali pirates vs Obama and Hillary

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss this was my point. exactly. All of those goons would have been supported by Lebez and the rest as being ready on day one if they were elected...

As a guy who voted for a McCain/Palin ticket, you're really going to take a shot at Biden's "readiness" after his no comment on an ongoing hostage rescue mission?

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