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dont you swear at me!

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Originally posted by nefardec i hate when people say that occam's razor tends to be completely relative to the current zeitgeist, or used in favor of anyone's argument. let me use it : i tend to think that occam's razor would rather disprove the existence of a bajillion types of mysterious and spurious subatomic particles and support the notion that we create their semblance simply by looking for them. "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily." the whole of materialist science is an attempt to multiply/divide entities rather than to unify them.

"If you don't look, then you will never find."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Using a Neitzsche quote in this instance is dirty pool, lol.

But hypothetical existance of spiritual aspects aside.. in examples such as the one that op gave of the clairvoyant's "magical" insight. Is it not safer to assume that she's just good at reading and interpreting people's behaviour in a way that we don't need to resort to clairvoyance or spirituality to understand?

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Originally posted by astroboy But hypothetical existance of spiritual aspects aside.. in examples such as the one that op gave of the clairvoyant's "magical" insight. Is it not safer to assume that she's just good at reading and interpreting people's behaviour in a way that we don't need to resort to clairvoyance or spirituality to understand?

no, that's just madness.

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Originally posted by astroboy But hypothetical existance of spiritual aspects aside.. in examples such as the one that op gave of the clairvoyant's "magical" insight. Is it not safer to assume that she's just good at reading and interpreting people's behaviour in a way that we don't need to resort to clairvoyance or spirituality to understand?

well, in some cases it's going to be pretty tough to distinguish, but there are some extraordinary documented cases.


also, let's not use the word spiritual but something more like 'extra-material' - spiritual has an unsavory taste these days. Some people use the term 'explicate' to refer to the material projection of one's consciousness of the world, and 'implicate' to refer to it in its extra-material wholeness.

Re: Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

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Originally posted by nefardec check out this book: "the holographic universe" by michael talbot

Will the average joe like me, who barely knows what an atom is be able to read this book? I remember a long time ago checking the description of the book and just shitting my pants with confusion.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy But hypothetical existance of spiritual aspects aside.. in examples such as the one that op gave of the clairvoyant's "magical" insight. Is it not safer to assume that she's just good at reading and interpreting people's behaviour in a way that we don't need to resort to clairvoyance or spirituality to understand?

well apparently this clairvoyant saw that i have panic disorder [without me being there] and also knew that my toilet seat in my bathroom is broken.

also which is quite wierd.. [i dont know the exact terminolgoy for what she did but..] both my missus and her mum sat down, and the clairvoyant said "right i need to know which one of you i am seeing... which one of you has a living room with 3 walls painted 1 colour,l and 1 wall painted a different colour?" which referred to my fianc� as my living room is painted like that... then she went no to enisgage/sense the anxiety thing [which is me] and the toilet seat thing.
im not swallowed in usually by this stuff, but to me, this sounds rather real, like something she did sense, rather than deduce from my fianc�'s mannerisms or whatever

Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

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Originally posted by [N]�k|��[Z] does anyone actually believe in this?, or does anyone see a clairvoyant? reason for my asking is: my missus's mum see's one every once in a while, and tonight my misuss went with her, and the clairvoyant type lady person picked up on me having panic disorder, thruogh my missus [fuck knows how]. the lady said i need 'healing' and she would be willing to do it for free, for as many sessions as it requires, all free of charge, and guarantee's my fianc� that she can cure me. im gonna give it a shot, as this illness is an absolute nightmare to live with. I have tried meds,, hypnotherapy and stuff, but nothing has worked, so im willing to give it a shot. but has anyone else tried anything like this?

It sounds like your fianc� told her about your panic attacks and she used this information to get to you. I'd be careful because now days we have more energy sucking entities than good ones for healing.

I'd say you'd have to build up a lot of trust with this woman before allowing her to deal with the panic attacks that you have not completely cured.

You should see if she would smoke some weed with you to cure that panic attack.

Re: Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

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Originally posted by we_R_DNA It sounds like your fianc� told her about your panic attacks and she used this information to get to you. I'd be careful because now days we have more energy sucking entities than good ones for healing. I'd say you'd have to build up a lot of trust with this woman before allowing her to deal with the panic attacks that you have not completely cured. You should see if she would smoke some weed with you to cure that panic attack.

well from how the missus tells me, it sounds like she guessed it. and to be honest i have had 2 years of hell with this thing, ad theres no signs of getting better really.. so im willing to give it a shot.. after all the woman is offering her services free of charge regardless of how long it takes.

and also, i dont think weed is gonna help matters lol .. i think weed and many other drugs were partly to blame for this condition

Re: Re: Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

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Originally posted by [N]�k|��[Z] well from how the missus tells me, it sounds like she guessed it. and to be honest i have had 2 years of hell with this thing, ad theres no signs of getting better really.. so im willing to give it a shot.. after all the woman is offering her services free of charge regardless of how long it takes. and also, i dont think weed is gonna help matters lol .. i think weed and many other drugs were partly to blame for this condition

Alright, well I wish you the best on finding a place of peace and solitude when it comes to dealing with panic attacks. Peace be with you brother from another mother.

Re: Re: Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

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Originally posted by Dj Nacht Will the average joe like me, who barely knows what an atom is be able to read this book? I remember a long time ago checking the description of the book and just shitting my pants with confusion.

yeah, it is written with a lot of metaphors (the hologram itself being the all-encompassing metaphor) - i think it is very easy to read if you read it with an open mind

i haven't tried it but i've tried giving it

one day on a nice afternoon my dog got hit by a fucking car & my parents didn't take it to the vet. it was half retarded at the moment & we weren't sure whether it would make it through the night or not.

well i was planning to do lsd on that day for about a week prior to this incident so i said fuck it, might as well. 3-4 hours i come home and trip the fuck out on the computer for a while until i hear my dog screaming like hell in the other room(he tried to move off his pillow to piss or something & the pain was too much so he tumbled over, a couple feet away from his pillow. mind you he could barely walk, move, or open his eyes that evening)

so i'm tripping the fuck out(at 3-4 in the morning btw), looking at my dog looking at me & that's when i fell into some state of monk mode. just fucking laid there for who knows how long(maybe 10-30 minutes) petting my dog & used my thoughts & energy to heal his sorry ass.

he made it through the night. couple days after that he was walking & eating again & now it's like nothing even happened to him.

c0r version: lsd; went shaman mode for 30 mins; did some type of mind healing shit to my dog(had no clue whether it would even work but had nothing else to do); he made it through the night; he made a full recovery & is very much alive

maybe he was just lucky to live & i made a fool of myself for 10 - 30 mins

Re: Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

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Originally posted by nefardec i do, mostly. check out this book: "the holographic universe" by michael talbot

http://www.newscientist.com/article....html?full=true

Just read this article on the concept of Holographic Universe
http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html

Gonna buy the book tonight, this stuff is intense

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Originally posted by ******** Are you sure he got hit or did you just trip it...? Like it wasn't your parents just making some weird dog noise to bad trip you was it? From what I've heard psycadelics can be a serious potential for bad tripping cause even small things can be blown into much larger ones.. like the sound of a lawn mower, people walking around in spandex suits, military personnel patroling an area, etc... your mind from what I hear can really wander as to what is really going on. Because of the nature of potential hallucination - one who is tripping much seperate what is real from what is not real. And if the norm is not maintained, then how does one seperate expected occurence in the real - from fantasy? This same issue something exists in law and politics - such as ? What is real, how do you define real? oh and you can know both you just need to use quantum forces to track the electron. (always a smaller unit)

lol, it was around 3-4 in the morning so there wasn't much noise outside or inside & he was still barking/moaning when i got to the room

only had 1 tab so my feet was still at ground level, enough to know whether i was hallucinating it or not anyway

This thread is going to attract every single nutbag on TA.[/prophecy]

It's all bullshit designed to take people's money from them.

Anyone who is unsure about this kind of thing needs to read Derren Brown's book "A Trick Of The Mind". It's an incredible refute of every spiritual/alternative/non-scientific healing method out there. Derren Brown has absolutely no spiritual beliefs whatsoever, and yet he knows how to do all that shit. Mediums, clairvoyants, reiki, hypnotists: he knows the material explanation for it all.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Anyone who is unsure about this kind of thing needs to read Derren Brown's book "A Trick Of The Mind". It's an incredible refute of every spiritual/alternative/non-scientific healing method out there. Derren Brown has absolutely no spiritual beliefs whatsoever, and yet he knows how to do all that shit. Mediums, clairvoyants, reiki, hypnotists: he knows the material explanation for it all.

"Truth is in the eye of the beholder."

- Edmund Husserl

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Originally posted by Domesticated "Truth is in the eye of the beholder." - Edmund Husserl

Who are you, trancer-x?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Anyone who is unsure about this kind of thing needs to read Derren Brown's book "A Trick Of The Mind". It's an incredible refute of every spiritual/alternative/non-scientific healing method out there. Derren Brown has absolutely no spiritual beliefs whatsoever, and yet he knows how to do all that shit. Mediums, clairvoyants, reiki, hypnotists: he knows the material explanation for it all.

actually he is doing exactly what the 'spiritual' people are doing.


you're missing the point of spiritual healing. it's not so much that you are physically doing something to someone, but you are making them believe you are doing something.

Simply by through belief, the body can heal on its own.

Think of it like the placebo effect.

So this really is not a refutation, it's just another understanding of the thing.


additionally, it's worth noting that many documented psychics and clairvoyants actually had little idea of the 'uniqueness' of their gifts for some time.

imagine that the way you see the color 'red' is different than everyone else - how would you be able to verify the difference when you end up referring to the same object? so what i am saying is it's possible derren brown actually does have certain gifts but he passes them off as 'micro muscle movements' and 'subtle cues', where spiritualists may call them 'fluctuations of the energy body' etc

Re: Re: Re: clairvoyancey, spiritual healing and****..

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Originally posted by Terrence Parker http://www.newscientist.com/article....html?full=true

fascinating - thanks for the link!


what a time we live in

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Originally posted by nefardec actually he is doing exactly what the 'spiritual' people are doing. you're missing the point of spiritual healing. it's not so much that you are physically doing something to someone, but you are making them believe you are doing something. Simply by through belief, the body can heal on its own. Think of it like the placebo effect.

i thought recent studies argue that the whole placebo effect doesn't actually work?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i thought recent studies argue that the whole placebo effect doesn't actually work?

link?

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