Not that drugs are implicitly tied to the Scene in Ontario... or people want to hear

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-- Not that drugs are implicitly tied to the Scene in Ontario... or people want to hear
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Posted by ChemEnhanced on Jun-14-2009 22:12:

quote:
Originally posted by jsibilin
some drugs are good , some drugs are bad!

i think cops should concentrate on removing GUNS! or even knives/swords! then the criminals will have to fight with their fists !! fcukin PUSSY';s

while your at it.. make cigarette's illegal that way you can fine ppl for smoking tobacco and make more money off that!!!!

I say add alcohol to the list....its nothing but the devil's venom.

Posted by ChemEnhanced on Jun-14-2009 23:39:

well its obvious many people don't understand what a victimless crime is.

Posted by Kellyboop on Jun-15-2009 00:23:

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut

[FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]This is the only point I saw in this thread that wasn't engaging in lazy circular reasoning. This is true, the families and friends do get hurt. However, this is also true of any addiction, including alcohol, gambling, or smoking (if the person ends up with cancer at age 30). Making it a crime because of this is the extreme-right-wing, socially conservative solution to the problem, which I would expect most people here to be against.

Instead, we should be supporting the same kind of detox/rehab programs that are available for all other addictions. They exist for "hard drugs", but they are ridiculously expensive because they are so rare, and they're obviously limited in the treatments they can provide. Nicotine addictions, for example, are very often treated with a gradually-decreasing dose; that's obviously not an option for crack cocaine because it would be illegal to administer.

I'll have to look but there are some interesting articles on a program for heroin addicts in Sweden (I think?). Heroin addiction became such a problem and because people can't just stop taking heroin or even gradually decrease the dose the government has approved clinics where addicts can go get daily doses of heroin to keep them alive and functioning members of society. Interesting read.

The government definitely does need to look more into properly treating addicts versus sticking them in CAMH for a few weeks with a bunch of crazies and underpaid, underqualified "addiction counsellors".

Posted by Skipper on Jun-15-2009 17:46:

quote:
Originally posted by Wurm
I still don't get how people connect drugs and criminality implicitly.

If you remove the criminality, then we can treat addiction and its concurrent problems in a public-health context while removing a major source of funding for organised crime.

I'm not against decriminalization, so I'm not sure where you're getitng that from. I was simply responding to the idea that drug use is a victimless crime - it most certainly isn't.

quote:
Originally posted by Kellyboop

The government definitely does need to look more into properly treating addicts versus sticking them in CAMH for a few weeks with a bunch of crazies and underpaid, underqualified "addiction counsellors".

CAMH is not as useless as you make it out to be, and it's not all filled with dysfunctional, cracked out losers either.

Posted by DigiNut on Jun-15-2009 22:05:

quote:
Originally posted by Kellyboop
I'll have to look but there are some interesting articles on a program for heroin addicts in Sweden (I think?). Heroin addiction became such a problem and because people can't just stop taking heroin or even gradually decrease the dose the government has approved clinics where addicts can go get daily doses of heroin to keep them alive and functioning members of society. Interesting read.

I believe it. It's the same with smoking and drinking - there are always some people who just can't quit. But look at smoking for example, there are now so many different options for people who do want to quit - obviously it's still very hard to do but it's also a lot easier than it was 25 years ago. I think that with real legitimate research into the subject, we could start to see similar improvements for heroin or any other drug.

Obviously I can't prove that, but the basis for science is experimentation, and the way it is now, we've effectively obstructed any scientific progress. I think it's more correct to say that the victims are victims of drug criminalization, not simply victims of drugs or dealers.

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