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-- Traditional DJ Gets Insulted By Digital DJ On Beatportal And Goes Nuts
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quote:

Originally posted by nefardec and wannabes who can do neither and just fuck with other people's works of art by adding looping vst parameters and layer inane drum loops and delays

sure, if tiesto was using ableton live.

quote:

Originally posted by movingincircles and as well as produce full length tracks it's really 2 pieces of software in one package. and there's a lot of little features that can produce huge effects such as looping VST parameters live, you can't do that stuff in traktor.

You have no idea what Ableton was conceived as, do you?

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_Blue dude i agree to a certain extent but i think it's because the established digital dj hasn't done it right yet. joris voorn did something interesting with balance014, but still did it wrong (imo) and it ended up being a convoluted end-product. the possibility is there, but people keep on fucking it up by trying to do too much at once, not do enough, or just being outright boring.

Because there is no way to "do it right"

Either you're DJing music and playing tracks end to end without altering them much or you're cutting them up and diminishing them to make something else or play 4 of them at the same time for the sake of it.

Sure it can sound "cool" but I prefer people who just play good music and take you on a ride.

quote:

Originally posted by movingincircles and there's a lot of little features that can produce huge effects such as looping VST parameters live, you can't do that stuff in traktor.

Which are all completely useless to good DJs

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis for the sake of it.

yep

I wonder why producers master their tracks, just to have them taken by software DJs to be hacked, sliced, looped and altered live. Don't you get a drop in quality when you do it?

Using a program as basis to "DJ" is as difficult as Kraftwerk using hardware to create music live in the 70's. If you don't intend to create something new and own live, then, as a DJ, stick to CD or vinyl and concentrate on finding well produced tracks.

I agree with most of you. As long as the music is good I don't give a flying fudge on how it's being played.

HOWEVER there are some points I totally disagree with

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec who needs endless possibilities when you just need a few of the best

I began producing two years ago and started fiddling and scratching the surface of what you call those endless possibilities and let me tell you man, I just wanna go deeper and explore more.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis SO fucking true and the essence of why to me Ableton is not for DJing.

I'll always be the first one to say that music is meant to be mixed 'untouched': no crazy shitty effects that show a lack of mixing skill imo. I'm more of a purist so to say. Play the damn track the way you first heard it, don't filter that shit, just play it and mix you know? But you know I get bored of mixing after 5 tracks because I don't have enough control over what I play. This is why Ableton Live is the solution for molecular mixing. If I have the time, i'd love to make that kind of set!

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec so now we have deejays, producers/live performers, and wannabes who can do neither and just fuck with other people's works of art by adding looping vst parameters and layer inane drum loops and delays

You can make insane stuff by taking samples off a random track i assure you, give me a track and i'll rape its fuckhole

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec with endless possibilities you also end up with endless shitty products

Wrong the possiblities were already endless from the start. The possibilities just became quicker to explore but they didn't become easier to reach.

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Originally posted by ponsshin I began producing two years ago and started fiddling and scratching the surface of what you call those endless possibilities and let me tell you man, I just wanna go deeper and explore more.

um, ok - good for you

that doesn't make you good deejay though

and 'endless possibilities' is joris voorn's phrase.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec that doesn't make you good deejay though

I don't care. There are too many deejays anyway.

lmao. the lot of you need to calm the f. down. seriously. dj'ing is nothing 'that' special. dare i say 'not special at all?' you should all apply this enthusiasm to something much more practical.

quote:

Originally posted by ponsshin You can make insane stuff by taking samples off a random track i assure you, give me a track and i'll rape its fuckhole

this is precisely the attitude of the digital deejay that I can't stand.

poor choice of metaphor, also.

quote:

Originally posted by woscar You have no idea what Ableton was conceived as, do you?

i do
that was a dumb question.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Which are all completely useless to good DJs

if they don't know how to use it correctly, then yeah

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Originally posted by movingincircles i do that was a dumb question. if they don't know how to use it correctly, then yeah

I'm sorry but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that there are any correct ways to use effects while DJing.

There's enough over-used simple trickery in most productions, I don't have any need for even bigger woosh sounds or delays.

quote:

Originally posted by movingincircles i do that was a dumb question.

I'm all ears.

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Originally posted by nefardec this is precisely the attitude of the digital deejay that I can't stand. poor choice of metaphor, also.

What's wrong with turning shit into good stuff?

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Originally posted by woscar I'm all ears.

/care

quote:

Originally posted by ponsshin What's wrong with turning shit into good stuff?

Nothing. However, what most digital DJs do is the exact opposite.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I'm sorry but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that there are any correct ways to use effects while DJing. There's enough over-used simple trickery in most productions, I don't have any need for even bigger woosh sounds or delays.

there's plenty of scenarios where a live remix or mashup would sound a lot better with effects, but yes i would agree that there are a lot of times djs would sound a lot better without the use of effects

quote:

Originally posted by ponsshin What's wrong with turning shit into good stuff?

'raping the fuckhole' seems to me to be the opposite, turning good stuff into shit.

Why bother with shit at all, just play good stuff????

i see it only as a way for producers, not djs, show their sequencing skills live, and that is the only way anybody would have respect for abelton platform; i think of it like skiing and snowboarding; that they are different approaches, dj mixing and live sequencing, maybe one day abelton will be approached right, and then finally people will just shut up about platforms altogether

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Because there is no way to "do it right" Either you're DJing music and playing tracks end to end without altering them much or you're cutting them up and diminishing them to make something else or play 4 of them at the same time for the sake of it. Sure it can sound "cool" but I prefer people who just play good music and take you on a ride.

sure, wrong wording, change "do it right" to "do it well, in my opinion" but in the end it's subjective depending on the listener

all i'm saying is an ableton dj can also "play good music and take you on a ride," and to say that only traditional 2x tech12 djs playing productions "the way they were meant to be played" (or however you want to describe it) can do so isn't a fair statement- they just haven't yet (for you). for any productions i create, i say let the dj manipulate and interpret it however he/she wants, it's part of being free and creative. laziness by looping on the other hand is something i don't agree with, of course.

it's not about sounding cool as you stated, some djs are trying to innovate and i say let 'em. sure there's quite a few chin-stroker douches that do so for the sake of doing it who don't *do it well, in my opinion* but i believe that there's possibility for innovation and creative freedom with those programs. i'm not talking about the people who rape the loop and hi-pass functions, i think all of us can agree that effects-whores are the antithesis of what we try to do as djs.

it sounds to me like both you and adam have a certain romanticized view of the traditional dj and this magical musical journey that only a traditional dj can do. i just don't agree; though for the sake of keeping from turning this into a flame war i agree that i haven't heard an ableton dj do that for me either. yet.

tl;dr : i don't agree with the notion that ableton/digital dj's can't play a spiritually/emotionally satisfying set or that they ought not to fuck with/resample productions for their own use. i prefer people who play good music, even if it's not in the context the producer intended or how i expected it.

quote:

Originally posted by R.j. lmao. the lot of you need to calm the f. down. seriously. dj'ing is nothing 'that' special. dare i say 'not special at all?' you should all apply this enthusiasm to something much more practical.

like getting a steady day job

quote:

Originally posted by adi_hanson And people wonder what destroyed trance and EDM in general , everyone is too busy bitching,claiming who is better and generally falling out over all sorts of stupid shit. I see people falling out over who's sound engine is better , whos DAW is better , Whos VSTi , Synth , turntables , genre , set , computer , life , schedule , house , car , music theory , bassline , percs , melodies , mixing , effects units and whos EP is the best thing since sliced bread. And while this is going on , in a huge mass brawl on the floor ,Some people are just focusing on the job in hand , to get music to the people and put on good shows with good music no matter how its produced. And then they wonder how tiesto , deadmau5 , armin and other big names got where they are today. And the sad fact is? Look at my sig , Why should i have to do that?

You shouldn't because honestly nobody really cares what you use it's what you do.

quote:

Originally posted by ponsshin But you know I get bored of mixing after 5 tracks because I don't have enough control over what I play. This is why Ableton Live is the solution for molecular mixing. If I have the time, i'd love to make that kind of set!

Not meaning to bring back the discussion but I started to make a "molecular mix" and I don't think I've ever been so interested in making a mix before. It'z so much involving than a regular mix.
Will post the final result when done

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