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quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Unnecessary correction imo.

You wouldn't have called it unnecessary if he had referred to it as house music.

It's fine if you don't really understand breaks, but you shouldn't then go around saying that you're producing it. Breakbeats are dance music; that track was chillout music.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut You wouldn't have called it unnecessary if he had referred to it as house music. It's fine if you don't really understand breaks, but you shouldn't then go around saying that you're producing it. Breakbeats are dance music; that track was chillout music.

well no,if you read my post correctly i stated,"i'm leaning towards breaks".Because it seems to complement my stile. Then gave a example of the kinda track i believed was relative to the topic.

as my reasoning for my post was the standerd dance format seemed to conventional. And didn't give the freedom as dare i say breaks.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut You wouldn't have called it unnecessary if he had referred to it as house music. It's fine if you don't really understand breaks, but you shouldn't then go around saying that you're producing it. Breakbeats are dance music; that track was chillout music.

Breaks, Progressive Breaks, Drum and Bass, IDM, Chillout, Progressive House.. all of those are or can sound like what we usually call breaks. (and pop, rock too if you wanna get difficult)

Lets say id like to make something similar to the track in the video only with a stronger beat it could easily be called breaks.

With that said, im a however a member of the "anti subgenre association" and prefer music to be divided into a least amount of subgenres.

So imo you are just genre nitpicking, but then again you are probably a member of the "we must divide every sub-genre corporation" al� Ishkurs Guide, but when genres mixes up it gets messy and undefinable and then its nice to narrow the categories as much as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Breaks, Progressive Breaks, Drum and Bass, IDM, Chillout, Progressive House.. all of those are or can sound like what we usually call breaks. (and pop, rock too if you wanna get difficult)

On what planet?

quote:

So imo you are just genre nitpicking, but then again you are probably a member of the "we must divide every sub-genre corporation" al� Ishkurs Guide, but when genres mixes up it gets messy and undefinable and then its nice to narrow the categories as much as possible.

Yeah ok buddy... there are tracks that cross boundaries, I know that, I've made them, but this has NOTHING to do with that. Breaks isn't a "sub-genre", it's a primary genre, and it's not the same as comparing say "progressive house" to "electro house".

It's no different from trance and house. Some tracks out there, like a lot of what deadmau5 produces, are in a gray area, but As The Rush Comes is clearly trance and One More Time is clearly house. The track he posted was clearly downtempo and not breaks.

Either you have no idea what a breakbeat is yourself or you're just being a contrarian asshole. This discussion wasn't about narrow categories of genres that are hard to define, it was about basic fundamental differences between music styles.

lol'well this to me is what is ment by breaks......Breakbeat (sometimes breakbeats or breaks) is a term used to describe a collection of sub-genres of electronic music, usually characterized by the use of a non-straightened 4/4 drum pattern (as opposed to the steady beat of house or trance). These rhythms may be characterised by their intensive use of syncopation and polyrhythms.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut On what planet?

Progressive House (other is considered Progressive Breaks)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FDbXbfZcAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iopIfdqFmBk

Drum and Bass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ulSx7NHjEA

Trance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCBQPuUAIGc

Chillout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF4segJkmd8

Pop and rock is sort of breaks too, of course it isnt, but i would say breaks is the hardest genre to distinguish as every beat that doesnt go 4th to the floor kicks can be used for it.
Im halfway being an contrarian ass here for sure, but i think you are too.

You are right of course, but it isnt really as obvious as distinguishing more prominent genres as Trance.

Oh and what is this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXNYxyUvhIU

If i remember correctly they are breaking to this beat in the video.

Re: Electronica Music and real music?

quote:

Originally posted by owien so basically my issue is that i seem to have a talent for making real music,witch is a real benefit for Electronica.

Just for future reference, use the terminology "music created with acoustic instruments" in place of "real" music, since that is infact what you're refering too. That way you don't come across as either: ignorant, uneducated or offensive. As a previous post mentioned, anything can be 'real' - you hear it, explain how thats not real?
Also, classical and jazz are the most complicated forms of music, pretty much everything else: ie. rock, pop, EDM, country etc. are all on an equal playing field in terms of difficulty, since they're all typcially 4/4 time and are usually the same format wise. I'd actually stretch to say EDM is a bit more difficult becuase of the 'exploring the unknown factor,' where the other genres are all straight forward instrument wise (with the exception of what effect the guitar player chooses to use) anyways thats a long tangent, but just don't throw that term around.

You are all wrong.

Real Breaks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixL_jmGRDXY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CchTEMLhJuQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4iAXofyAjw

Please, don't pander lame stuff to the guys that don't know. :P

Also, saying jazz and classical are complicated is a fucking joke..go back to music 101 and learn how to play music. [interestingly enough, these two, save for a few songs, tend to be the most annoying genras of music. Jazz is fucking aweful. Jazz took what the rest of non-western civilization was doing, and tried to add their own twist, and failed. And no, don't you start that "jazz invented or pioneered new shit"...jazz didn't do a fucking thing that wasn't already done en masse by the rest of the world. /rant ]

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 jazz didn't do a fucking thing that wasn't already done en masse by the rest of the world. /rant ]

lol

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Also, saying jazz and classical are complicated is a fucking joke..go back to music 101 and learn how to play music. [interestingly enough, these two, save for a few songs, tend to be the most annoying genras of music. Jazz is fucking aweful. Jazz took what the rest of non-western civilization was doing, and tried to add their own twist, and failed. And no, don't you start that "jazz invented or pioneered new shit"...jazz didn't do a fucking thing that wasn't already done en masse by the rest of the world. /rant ]

...really?

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Also, saying jazz and classical are complicated is a fucking joke..go back to music 101 and learn how to play music. [interestingly enough, these two, save for a few songs, tend to be the most annoying genras of music. Jazz is fucking aweful. Jazz took what the rest of non-western civilization was doing, and tried to add their own twist, and failed. And no, don't you start that "jazz invented or pioneered new shit"...jazz didn't do a fucking thing that wasn't already done en masse by the rest of the world. /rant ]

I'll just say it point blank - you're an idiot!

Firstly, to say jazz is awful is a personal opinion and shouldn't be a generalization. No one gives a fuck what you like, thats beside the point. FYI - I never even indicated either genre to be anything other than complicated in respect to other music forms. Secondly your comments indicate that you're obviously not a musician, I've personally specialized in Jazz and Classical piano. The difference between the two vs. any commercial music - Jazz and classical (depending on either the era or sub-genre) can have complicated time signatures and chord structures that are usually never used in pop music, thus their foreign appearence can take more time for the brain to grasp if the musician is unfamiliar with the genre, where commercial music is very straight forward chords for the most part and most musicians can easily sight read it or play by ear. Your comments are even more ignorant than the term 'real' music, and I thought that would take the cake in this thread. Take a second next time you decide to spread your verbal diarrhea

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 You are all wrong.

But you're right are you?

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixL_jmGRDXY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CchTEMLhJuQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4iAXofyAjw

actually that's drum and bass.

there's a misunderstanding going on here between people referring to breaks the music genre and breaks as in music with a broken beat

Breaks is any beat that pretty much isn't Kick Snare Kick Hat.

People add breaks to stuff that sounded like trance or what ever and called it "breaks", for pretty much no reason.

quote:

Originally posted by djbruuen I'll just say it point blank - you're an idiot! Firstly, to say jazz is awful is a personal opinion and shouldn't be a generalization. No one gives a fuck what you like, thats beside the point. FYI - I never even indicated either genre to be anything other than complicated in respect to other music forms. Secondly your comments indicate that you're obviously not a musician, I've personally specialized in Jazz and Classical piano. The difference between the two vs. any commercial music - Jazz and classical (depending on either the era or sub-genre) can have complicated time signatures and chord structures that are usually never used in pop music, thus their foreign appearence can take more time for the brain to grasp if the musician is unfamiliar with the genre, where commercial music is very straight forward chords for the most part and most musicians can easily sight read it or play by ear. Your comments are even more ignorant than the term 'real' music, and I thought that would take the cake in this thread. Take a second next time you decide to spread your verbal diarrhea

'Forgeign' appearance? I look at jazz and classical and go "thats pretty fucking simple" It might aswell be pop.

Jazz, as a collection of music over the years is horrible. The idea of mixing elements and using different techniques from around the world, sounds nice, but in reality, it has never produces anything good. Every classical jazz album there is, is complete and utter garbage, a total mockery of music everywhere. These albums bring shame to the industry. No one enjoys a bunch of morons purposly trying to clash with eachother. And that is the purpose of jazz, grouping elements of music together that don't belong together and cause a shitty clusterfuck of noise.

So sure, the idea of jazz is spiffy, but untill you find a classical jazz band that has done it decently, your genra of music will always suck.

Oh, and don't start that same bullshitic [yeah] rant like those fags in the IDM [intelligent-psy-house-trance-whatever] crowd always start, abouyt how I don't "understand" the compliexities of jazz or some other bullshit, I understand it well, it sucks, you failed. Go back to the 1920's....

@ sixofour.604

not to pick but could u post some jazz and classical tracks that you've made since its so simple?

I think the main difference between jazz + classical and more popular forms of music is the amount of variation in terms of dynamics, tempo, and harmonic structure. Most popular music uses a single tempo and key throughout, and has a very consistent volume level, while jazz and classical often don't. On the other hand, popular music is often more varied in terms of instrumental timbre, while classical and jazz tend to use the same "sounds" nearly all the time. Although a few classical composers did experiment with electronics to get more timbres.

Why would I make a track for a genra I don't enjoy? Just to prove a point? Ive made orchestral peices, but I wouldn't call them classical, they don't have the habit of changing abruptly and ruining the phrase, like much classical does.

For instance, Beethoven Symphony 5, has a good part..but the rest...? From 0:33 to about 1:10 is awesome. Then it just turns into this happy stuff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c4x0yuKpeY

Where as moonlight sonata has pretty much nothing messed up. No dramatic changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2cFEHM9yMw

Then again, I can listen to a 10 second loop for 10 hours and enjoy it. So it shows you how much I enjoy drastic change during a song :P


BoJingles +1

Well yeah, jazz and classical are usually way less repetitive in terms of melody. If you're the sort of person who enjoys listening to one loop for ten hours, you won't like that.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle You are right of course, but it isnt really as obvious as distinguishing more prominent genres as Trance.

That is very likely because you don't listen to it nearly as much. It's very obvious to me and to a lot of people I know.

Jason Nevins was a frickin' genius. It's like that is sort of a cross between house and old-school hip hop.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Real Breaks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixL_jmGRDXY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CchTEMLhJuQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4iAXofyAjw

That's Drum and Bass, dipshit. It's even labeled as DnB in the genre tags!

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think the main difference between jazz + classical and more popular forms of music is the amount of variation in terms of dynamics, tempo, and harmonic structure.

Also rhythm. Much of the more modern classical music is full of half-measures, time signature changes, and so on. Very hard to make sense of if you're not used to it (and even harder to play, back in those days!).

All "breaks" is refering to is breakbeats. That could be anything from Jungle To Dnb to Hiphop to Ambient Breaks..lol. Don't take it so seriously, i'm generalizing the genera.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut That is very likely because you don't listen to it nearly as much. It's very obvious to me and to a lot of people I know.

I can agree with that, i reckon there is some confusion about the genre Breaks, and music that has a breakbeat.
Im mostly familiar with the most popular breaks producers (at least which i know of) such as Hybrid, Adam Freeland, Rennie Pilgrem.

And then there is of course the whole bunch of producers who makes the occational breaks track now and then.

I have actually made two Breaks tracks myself.. or at least i think so, they do have a breakbeat.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 All "breaks" is refering to is breakbeats. That could be anything from Jungle To Dnb to Hiphop to Ambient Breaks..lol. Don't take it so seriously, i'm generalizing the genera.

That's about as effective as claiming that house music is anything played at a warehouse party, and would therefore also include jazz-funk, disco, and happy hardcore.

There's a difference between the etymology of a genre and the genre itself.

There are lots of acts that are like, one guy on a guitar and another guy on some drums and a third dude with a computer doing lots of other stuff, isn't really that rare of a thing and the comptuery loopy things didn't seem to be all that incompatible with the live instruments during the many times I saw it happening. I imagine it takes a good amount of practicing to get into something like that though, then again everything like this takes practicing.

When im out in person with people who get into genre labeling discussions it is a lot more fun, because then they do stuff like say "nuuuu, breaks wounst like this .. boemiofguwheoifadjhrqeofhnweouighsgbiwrg" and it turns into a giant digplay of grunting and squeeking and creative noisemaking, the intarnet discussions of genre labeling are not nearly as fun by comparison.

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