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-- Car Insurance Rates To Skyrocket
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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mach X What in the superfuck?! Did you mean Lamborghini? Or did you mean $194?

Oh... I pay annually, not monthly. So that would be $39 per month on my Miata, and just under $100 a month on the Elantra.

Jay prolly spends as little as I do as well.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Horrible. So how do Quebec and most of the continental USA get around it?

There are many factors but if we are just talking about the injury portion then its the much lower medical coverage limits. One of the main reasons Ontario went with such high limits and so many benefits was they wanted to make sure people got the treatment and coverage they needed instead of fighting with the at fault party's insurance company to get treatment. On the surface it seems like a good idea and in most areas outside of the GTA the system works well. The problem is the GTA has more people that abuse the system.

One of the biggest expenses on your auto insurance in ontario is the Accident Benefit Coverage. Most policies would probably drop $400 to $500 if we could eliminate much of the benefits and lower the medical benefits.

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Originally posted by E2EK1EL Must be a very stressful and endless pain in the ass job, I really hope they pay you well. Wanted to ask you what happens with a total lost accident? Party �A� rear ends party �B� @ full force. Party �B� car is a total lost -Who�s insurance goes up? -Who�s insurance pays for the car damages at the total end of the settlement of party �B�? -How much is the towing of party �B� car? -Does party �B� insurance goes up within the next 2 years? (Even when he or she is not at fault)

Most people that handle auto injury claims usually last about five years and then they have to change because its too much stress....I've been handling these types of claims for about 10 years. Between the government imposed timelines for responses and just dealing with a lot of low lifes it can be stressfull.

In your scenario Party A is 100% at fault as per the Fault Determination Rules in Ontario. Party A would most likely see a raise in insurance rates as they are at fault for the accident. Party Bs insurance company will pay for Party Bs damages. That's the No Fault Insurance at work. What No Fault Insurance means is that it doesn't matter who's at fault your insurance company pays for your claim and cannot subrogate against the other insurance company. As for towing costs those will be picked up by the insurance company but as for how much it costs I couldn't tell you...I've seen some companies charge insurance companies $200.00 just to hook the vehicle up and then $2,000.00 (thats not a typo) a day storage for each day the vehicle sits at the tow yard. Party Bs insurance should not go up due to the accident but there could be many other factors that cause PArty Bs insurance to go up over the two years.

Had an insurance claim for an accident I had a few years ago. The guy at the shop said he could do it for 700 but when I told him I would be going through insurance the price on the invoice almost doubled to 1300.

quote:

Originally posted by miketg23 Had an insurance claim for an accident I had a few years ago. The guy at the shop said he could do it for 700 but when I told him I would be going through insurance the price on the invoice almost doubled to 1300.

Depending on the repairs, there may actually be a legitimate reason for that. A lot of shops will offer to save you money if you're paying out of pocket by using after-market parts that look pretty much identical to the manufacturer parts, but aren't. Technically this would lower the resale value of your car and/or run you into warranty issues if it became known, and land you in big trouble if it's a lease, so if it goes through insurance they'll use factory parts, which is perfectly reasonable.

Or maybe they're just dinging insurance, I don't know - but the price difference you mentioned seems about right for, as an example, a factory bumper and a couple of lamps vs. after-market.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Depending on the repairs, there may actually be a legitimate reason for that. A lot of shops will offer to save you money if you're paying out of pocket by using after-market parts that look pretty much identical to the manufacturer parts, but aren't. Technically this would lower the resale value of your car and/or run you into warranty issues if it became known, and land you in big trouble if it's a lease, so if it goes through insurance they'll use factory parts, which is perfectly reasonable. Or maybe they're just dinging insurance, I don't know - but the price difference you mentioned seems about right for, as an example, a factory bumper and a couple of lamps vs. after-market.

No replacement parts, just painting and a dent which was "popped out"...

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Originally posted by DJ Mach X Not surprising, you're the reason insurance rates go up anyways... 1)Ur a Girl 2)Ur asian

lol that's actually the only at fault accident I had. I know how to handle a car!

quote:

Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT Quebec can afford that because of the stupid equalization payments they get.

Retract yourself dumb ass, you should be ashamed of yourself saying such idiocies without looking it up first. If you even knew how equalization worked in the first place, you would know that your broke ass isn't paying a dime into it.

The SAAQ is fully paid by Quebec drivers, its an independant org, as liquore board for example.

With the no-fault clause, the system doesn't feed the lawyers and vultures surrounding the system.

But this also limit the civil recourse you can have against someone who was clearly at fault (you got hit by a drunk driver, you can't sue with a civil suit).

Here educate yourself: http://www.saaq.qc.ca/publications/...c_regime_an.pdf

Shit... I missed all the insurance fun

BTW; to the people posting their rates... this is meaningless unless you also post your coverage, deductibles, territory, use, vehicle info, and age. You cannot simply compare premium numbers.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced The scams start right from the tow truck drivers

yeah, those rats on wheels. my current car situation cost the insurance company over 800 dollars in towing fees to get the damn car to the shop because the towing people decided to tow it all over the fucking place.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Shit... I missed all the insurance fun BTW; to the people posting their rates... this is meaningless unless you also post your coverage, deductibles, territory, use, vehicle info, and age. You cannot simply compare premium numbers.

I think I covered all the important things.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Shit... I missed all the insurance fun BTW; to the people posting their rates... this is meaningless unless you also post your coverage, deductibles, territory, use, vehicle info, and age. You cannot simply compare premium numbers.

You're absolutely right, thus why my rates are very low.

just curious why so many of you think this is somehow the fault of the government and not insurance companies? didn't the government freeze premium increases in 2003?

to me this looks like corporate greed sinking its teeth into general labour to try and pay off its losses in insuring big business meltdown..

$128/month for 2 drivers w/out claims on 2009 impreza sport (d/t)

you guys should also state where in the city you live, cuz apparently premiums are reduced by something like 20% if you live outside of the downtown core

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 just curious why so many of you think this is somehow the fault of the government and not insurance companies? didn't the government freeze premium increases in 2003? to me this looks like corporate greed sinking its teeth into general labour to try and pay off its losses in insuring big business meltdown..

The government controls what the insurance companies can charge. FSCO (Financial Services Commission Ontario) sets the rates each insurer can charge per $1,000 of insurance for each risk rating.

Corporate greed? Only one insurer in Ontario makes money on automobile insurance; Markel, and that is because they only write transport trucks, which is largely immune to accident benefits exposure and for which the rates are not controlled by the government. Most of the automobile insurers LOSE 20-30 cents on every dollar of premium they charge. I don't think that wanting to bring your loses down from 30% to say 10% is all that unreasonable... certainly not greed.

Truth is; NO insurers want to write automobile policies in Ontario; rather, they are forced to because if you want to insure property/businesses/liability you MUST (BY LAW) also write automobile.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 $128/month for 2 drivers w/out claims on 2009 impreza sport (d/t) you guys should also state where in the city you live, cuz apparently premiums are reduced by something like 20% if you live outside of the downtown core

try 100% higher.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 just curious why so many of you think this is somehow the fault of the government and not insurance companies? didn't the government freeze premium increases in 2003? to me this looks like corporate greed sinking its teeth into general labour to try and pay off its losses in insuring big business meltdown..

quote:

How Your Automobile Insurance Rates are Set Your automobile insurance rates are determined by a combination of factors including: Your Personal Profile The Amount of Coverage You Purchase Your Deductible The Insurance Company You Choose 1. Your Personal Profile This includes: The type of vehicle you drive: Many insurance companies rate makes and models of vehicles according to their actual claims experience, such as the cost of repairs, the rate of injury, and the likelihood that a particular vehicle may be stolen or involved in an accident. The Insurance Bureau of Canada (IBC) has a brochure called How Cars Measure Up. This brochure provides information on the claims experience of insurance companies, including the most popular models of passenger vehicles. To obtain a copy of the brochure, visit IBC�s website at: www.ibc.ca. Your driving record: The premium you pay also depends on your driving record. This includes at-fault accidents, the length of time you have been licensed to drive, whether or not you have taken a driver-training course that your insurance company recognizes, and driving convictions (such as: speeding and impaired or careless driving). Generally, your first minor conviction will have little or no impact on your rates. But if you have had a second minor conviction in the last three years, it will most likely affect your premium. If you have had at-fault accidents over the last six years, or a number of minor driving convictions or even one major or serious conviction over the last three years, your premium will be higher. Likewise, the better your driving record, the lower your premium will be. How much you drive: Your automobile insurance premium will also be affected by how much you drive. This is because the more time you spend on the road, the higher the chances of becoming involved in an automobile accident. In urban areas, driving to work may include driving to a subway, bus, or train station. If you live close to work, you will probably have a lower premium than someone who lives far from work or who needs to use his or her vehicle for business. Where you live: Automobile insurance rates are generally higher in larger urban centres. This is because there are a greater number of vehicles on the road, and the chances of getting into an accident are higher. Also, more vehicles are stolen in urban areas. Your age: In general, mature drivers have fewer accidents than younger drivers, particularly teenagers. Drivers who are 25 years of age and over can generally buy insurance at a considerably lower cost than younger drivers. Back to How Your Automobile Insurance Rates are Set 2. The Amount of Coverage You Purchase Many people buy additional protection beyond the mandatory coverage. For example, if you buy optional Collision coverage, which protects you for damage to your vehicle regardless of who caused the accident, or Comprehensive coverage, which protects you against theft, vandalism, hail, or explosion, your vehicle will, be covered against any such incidences, but you will pay more. There are also other options, such as increasing your Third-Party Liability protection. All of these optional coverages will have an effect on the cost of your policy. Discuss your options and costs with your agent or broker. Back to How Your Automobile Insurance Rates are Set 3. Your Deductible Your deductible is the portion of a loss that you are required to pay. Your deductible can vary, depending on the type of coverage you have and the percentage of fault you are assigned in the event of an accident. There are deductibles for Collision or Upset, Comprehensive, All Perils, and Specified Perils coverages. You can also pay a lower premium by having a deductible on Direct Compensation-Property Damage (DC-PD) coverage or raising the deductible on the other coverages. For example, by having a higher deductible of $500, instead of $300, on Comprehensive coverage, you can save about 10 per cent off your Comprehensive premium. These savings are due to the fact that higher deductibles mean you pay more towards the cost of repairing your vehicle, while your insurance company pays less toward the total cost of repair. As a result, your premium will be lower. If you'd rather have lower deductibles, you may be able to do so if you meet certain conditions and if your company offers them, but your premium will be higher. (Recognize, however, that since Collision or Upset and Comprehensive are both optional coverages, your insurance company may obligate you to carry higher deductibles if you have had a lot of prior claims.) If you have an older vehicle, you may choose to reduce your premium further by dropping Collision or Upset and Comprehensive coverages entirely. Back to How Your Automobile Insurance Rates are Set 4. The Insurance Company You Choose As mentioned above, automobile insurance premiums for the exact same coverage can vary substantially from insurance company to insurance company. Why? Financial factors unique to each insurance company will contribute to the amount each company will charge you for automobile insurance. This is why it is important to shop around! Insurance works according to a "pooling" concept. You are one member of the risk group in the company you select as your insurer. Your company charges premiums based on the claims experience of the entire group. If an insurance company's claims experience for a particular risk group is significantly higher than another insurance company�s, its insurance premiums will be higher. Consider the following example: Several people (we'll call them Risk Pool A), purchase individual automobile insurance policies from Insurance Company A. Insurance Company A then charges each policyholder in Risk Pool A an annual insurance premium and �pools� the money collected. In the event that an individual from Risk Pool A is injured in automobile accident, Insurance Company A will provide him or her with supplementary medical, rehabilitation, attendant care, caregiver, non-earner, and income replacement benefits. Some individuals in Risk Pool A may receive insurance benefits that total far more money than they have ever paid to Insurance Company A. Others will pay their premium annually, but never make a claim. To establish individual premiums for policyholders in Risk Pool A, Insurance Company A's insurance actuaries (professional business people skilled in the application of mathematics to financial problems) will estimate the number and cost of future claims for Risk Pool A. Insurance Company A will then predict the cost to administer these claims and use this information, along with each individual�s personal profile, the amount of coverage they purchased, and their deductibles, to set individual premiums. What Insurance Companies Can't Use to Determine Rates Your insurance company cannot use the following rating criteria to determine how much you should pay for automobile insurance: credit history, bankruptcy, employment status, whether you own a credit card, how long you have lived in your current home, not-at-fault accidents, whether your vehicle is owned or leased, and whether there was a period of time where you had no automobile insurance coverage. Changes in rates must be approved All automobile insurance companies operating in Ontario are required to file rate change requests with FSCO. FSCO must, by law, approve each insurance company�s automobile insurance rates. If an automobile insurer needs to make a rate change � either upwards or downwards � it must file an application with FSCO. FSCO has a team of analysts who work with staff actuaries to determine whether the proposed rates are reasonable and justified. The rate filing application is a projection of what will be needed to meet future claims costs. These projections are based on the company�s current financial data, such as premiums collected, claims paid out, and administrative expenses. The financial data must be clearly stated and accurate. Special attention is given to balancing rates with the company's long-term ability to meet claims costs. FSCO also reviews and approves each company�s criteria for setting rates, and its underwriting rules � the grounds the company uses to refuse to sell automobile insurance to a consumer.

Rating territory is "Aurora Newmarket Orangeville King City"
Age: above 25 (yeah big shocker)
km driven annually: 10k (Miata), pleasure use
km driven annually: 24k (Elantra) driven to and from work 25km or more
1M liability
Home owner and multi-vehicle discount

What I don't understand about car insurance, or any insurance really is how they can get away with charging a monthly rate, and then eventually say when you do get in an accident, regardless if it wasn't your fault, they can increase your monthly payments, if you make the claim.

I mean really, I've been paying you for 9 years, shouldn't that cover my claim amount?

It makes you not want to claim, depending on the damage.

quote:

Originally posted by MissK What I don't understand about car insurance, or any insurance really is how they can get away with charging a monthly rate, and then eventually say when you do get in an accident, regardless if it wasn't your fault, they can increase your monthly payments, if you make the claim. I mean really, I've been paying you for 9 years, shouldn't that cover my claim amount?

see my above note or look here

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard The government controls what the insurance companies can charge. FSCO (Financial Services Commission Ontario) sets the rates each insurer can charge per $1,000 of insurance for each risk rating. Corporate greed? Only one insurer in Ontario makes money on automobile insurance; Markel, and that is because they only write transport trucks, which is largely immune to accident benefits exposure and for which the rates are not controlled by the government. Most of the automobile insurers LOSE 20-30 cents on every dollar of premium they charge. I don't think that wanting to bring your loses down from 30% to say 10% is all that unreasonable... certainly not greed. Truth is; NO insurers want to write automobile policies in Ontario; rather, they are forced to because if you want to insure property/businesses/liability you MUST (BY LAW) also write automobile.

so are you saying that auto insurance premiums would be higher by at least 30% then, if it weren't for government regulation?

That doesn't really answer my question. I understand how they choose a rate for you, there are many varibles that are particular to each indivudual.


Insurance companies will raise your monthly payments, if you make a claim, even if it is not your fault.

If it isn't your fault, why should your insurance premiums rise?

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 so are you saying that auto insurance premiums would be higher by at least 30% then, if it weren't for government regulation?

Most likely the cost would be too high for most people to even afford it if the government didn't regulate it....that's if any insurance company would even write insurance for automobiles.

quote:

Originally posted by MissK That doesn't really answer my question. I understand how they choose a rate for you, there are many varibles that are particular to each indivudual. Insurance companies will raise your monthly payments, if you make a claim, even if it is not your fault. If it isn't your fault, why should your insurance premiums rise?

Insurance companies CANNOT increase your rates if you have a Non-At Fault Accident in Ontario.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Insurance companies CANNOT increase your rates if you have a Non-At Fault Accident in Ontario.

They did for me, I even had to get a witness to write a report explaining the other person hit me.

My insurance went from $180 to $230.

This was with York Fire Insurance

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