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-- I give you these TEN COMMANDMENTS
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quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Midi keyboards or midi controllers are not really needed for anything anymore. We have mouse and keyboard. Most people either get them for the nostalgic feel [having something phsyical to handle] or because they think they need it in order to be a "real" producer. Bands are completely and utterly different. Because bands play live. Even the most sucsessful EDM artist is only playing music he pre-made. In EDM, a DJ plays your music. And now-a-days its probably a .wav file that he plays, as vinyl is getting rarer. Bands also play every song differently each show, EDM doesn't. Maby the band adds another section to a song, adds a new vocal section, repeats some stuff, what ever. This doesn't happen in EDM. Its just a fact of life, hardware is not a "requirement" for anything, so it goes that most people [who make music for money or fame] don't care for the nostaligic sound or feeling. The handful of "pro" artists you see with huge studios full of hardware, are not the majority of EDM producers. They are infact a tiny tiny tiny fringe minority. Most people who drive cars, don't use premium fuel, or have superchargers or even wash their car, they don't do that little bit of extra, they are content with the bare minimum, there is no reason to think most producers go "that extra level" and get all this hardware gear. You have a whole generation of producers coming up, who look at hardware as old and outdated. They don't care for it, they have their PC or laptop, and good monitors, and the rest is piratebay. Go to any electronic forum, look at the questions people ask, and the setups people have, most of them are using pretty much software only, with maby some nice monitors, and in rare instances a midi controller.

Yeah man all the great composers of our time work with ''penciling in the notes'' with the mouse. It is just more expressive like that. Especially when you actually know how to play the keyboard. All these other people just want to feel nostalgic and go back to the early part of the millennium when keyboards came out that did not make a sound at all. Those old days. So they buy those classic old fashioned m-audio midi controllers to ''feel'' like producers. That is a rare case though.

Re: Re: Re: Re: I give you these TEN COMMANDMENTS

quote:

Originally posted by derail I believe this is a matter of semantics - your definition of the word "knowledge" may differ from mine. I know very little for certain. It's probably safe to say "On Earth, I know that a rock will fall to the ground if I let it go", since gravity can be assumed to always exist, given our present level of scientific knowledge. However, I can't say something like "I know I need to highpass everything except my kick and bass, to give those instruments space down low". This is true for most of my productions/instruments, but there are times when this isn't the best option. I wouldn't make the above statement, because I don't "know" it. It's a technique which works well in the majority of cases, but it's not something I "know".

Wow, big misunderstanding then. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by Existo22 Yeah man all the great composers of our time work with ''penciling in the notes'' with the mouse. It is just more expressive like that. Especially when you actually know how to play the keyboard. All these other people just want to feel nostalgic and go back to the early part of the millennium when keyboards came out that did not make a sound at all. Those old days. So they buy those classic old fashioned m-audio midi controllers to ''feel'' like producers. That is a rare case though.

There are no great composers in EDM. And only a fringe population of EDM artists ever actually go into classical composition.

And, it is possiable to compose very good orchestral peices with "just a mouse". IIRc hanz zimmer did the POTC music on a pc, with recorded samples. The music from the matrix has an electronic style, but still has classical composition to an extent, it, of course, was all made on a pc. With a mouse.

The notion that software is unable to compete with hardware or "real" instruments is depricated. Its simply untrue. With the right skill, a guy can use ONLy software and bhis mouse+keyb, and do awesome things. And its easyer to do.

I think this was written to noobs with an open mind and the will to learn. And a person who says that most of the people who buy a midi controller only do it because they want to feel like real producers wont fit into that catagory.

You buy a midi controller or a synth because you need it to make things easier and better.

Instead of focusing on everything you think is bad in the article, maybe u should try to pick some things up.

I wouldn't benefit from anything in the artcle. Lol.

My expriense starting production in 2002 until now, has not involved anything listed in the article, i'm simply stating that.

The things I really needed to hear in 02 and 03 are things like:

-pick 2 or 3 synths at most and learn them ... When I first started producing I had around 200 soft synths. I spent most of my time preset and synth hopping. This halted my synthwork abilities by a few years.

-don't worry too much on "rules" of a genra, just make what you like ... You are better just making what you are feeling, and figuring out what genra it is later, then picking a genra out of the blue and saying "I want to make that"

-don't clip ... easy enough. Most of my tracks from the first 3-4 years are ruined now. They clip, and I no longer have the project files. The music is lost forever, save for a few busted mp3s.

-back up ... Ive lost way too much data in the past 7 years. Right now I only have the project files for about 5 of my tracks tracks. I have about 18 tracks ive made public. And about 20-30 unreleased. Most of it is gone.

---

Ive also learned to ignore a lot of what I see on the internet. Go talk to musicians in real life, not just EDM [id actually say avoid EDM artists :P] but in all areas. This will help you to open doors in creativity that you never knew were there.

I was never concern with hardware. Ever. It wasn't relevent to me, I never bought into the myth that hardware sounds better of fuller, I always knew they were full of shit. Pun Intended. And the only people, along that journey that Ive met who had a lust for hardware, were people who looked at what Tiesto or Armin or some other shmuck had and said "yeah, I need to get that stuff because he has it" or "i read an article, so now I need to spent 25,THOUSAND dollars on some peice of gear" ... all the while their music never advanced passed the FL Studio demos that come with the software.

That was in 02 and 03.

Do you really think someone in 2009 who just downloaded flstudio off piratebay is concerned with getting the latest M-Audio 4853Pi BIGCOCK Edition card? Remember we are talking about noobs, not someone who has exprience for 5 years and decides to buy an virus or something. And what I am saying is new producers, people getting into the game right now, will likely never reach that "lets buy a virus" level, because software is .just. .that. .good.

quote:

Originally posted by Existo22 Yeah man all the great composers of our time work with ''penciling in the notes'' with the mouse.

Oh yeah, and it's so much quicker to pencil in notes. I mean, manually inputting up to 10 notes at a time in real-time when using a keyboard is so much slower than penciling in one note at a time...

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Oh yeah, and it's so much quicker to pencil in notes. I mean, manually inputting up to 10 notes at a time in real-time when using a keyboard [and replaying the melody 500 times because it wasn't exactly perfect] is so much slower than penciling in one note at a time...

Fix'd

Using a mouse, I get the melody in on the first go perfectly. And most of the melody in any given song can be inputed in a few minutes.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Fix'd

Um, no. If you have to replay it 500 times, then it just means you suck.

Yet another decent thread derailed by crono's never-ending stream of stultifying tripe.

I guess in diginut's world every piano player is within .0001 margin of error in timing. Apparently.

More nonsense from a guy who has contributed less than I have.

r u claiming dignut has contributed less than zero on this forum? wow
ur crono aint u?

DigiNut.

You should know better than to feed the trolls.

You and I are old-hats (your hat is older) on these boards. Guys like that piss me off, but I still fight the impulse to acknowledge them.

:-/

:-\

Peace and love,

Adam

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 I wouldn't benefit from anything in the artcle. Lol.

Maybe you wouldnt, but someone else might. I thought it was a ok read for a noob who got some brain and can filter out those things that he dont need.

Even though I def more likely would put people in your "article" direction simply because its better, that dosnt mean the other is total shit

I never said the artcle was total shit, but the whole thing is from a "I'm getting a hardware studio" orientation. Most new people, aren't concerned with hardware these days. For 99.9% of all the noobs out there getting into music in 2009, they are going to be software only for a good bunch of years [if they are smart] before they invest in thousands of dollars of gear. [if they ever do get gear]

Its not rocket science.

No I totally agree, I have been producing for about 5 years now and all I have is a disfunctional Midi synth. You dont need fancy synths and stuff in many years because you have enough to work with already. When the time have come you know why you want to buy a certain thing.

I have forgotten my point but I think many can benefit from the whole experiment more and also read the manual point.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 I guess in diginut's world every piano player is within .0001 margin of error in timing. Apparently.

1. Ever heard of quantize?
2. Most producers create imprecise timing intentionally, even if they are manually inputting notes (it's called "humanizing"). It sounds better.

quote:

Originally posted by wrzonance You should know better than to feed the trolls.

Sadly, ignoring the trolls only works when the "trolling" is intentional; crono unfortunately believes the garbage he writes, and apparently has a boring enough life to spend several hours a day writing it here.

quote:

Originally posted by Dreamtea ..and also read the manual point.

On that point, just the other day I was looking through the manual for one of my hardware synths and stumbled across a very creative and useful routing capability that I was totally unaware of and which isn't intuitive from looking at the front-panel controls. So, it's not just newbs that can benefit from these Commandments.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut 2. Most producers create imprecise timing intentionally, even if they are manually inputting notes (it's called "humanizing"). It sounds better.

Yes it does. Excellent point. The contrast between rigid hard-quantized repeating parts (e.g., plucks, basses) with a more flowing, humanized lead synth performance, strings/pads (or even vocals) provides very effective results.

sixofour.604, Inputting notes with a mouse is faster? in 7 years you still can't play a keyboard? There was a time when you actually had to play what you recorded. It might be an amazing concept to you but people can and still do it.




Your logic is flawed. Come back in about ten more years. Maybe we can talk then.



Feel free to ignore this, I'm done.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 I never said the artcle was total shit, but the whole thing is from a "I'm getting a hardware studio" orientation. Most new people, aren't concerned with hardware these days. For 99.9% of all the noobs out there getting into music in 2009, they are going to be software only for a good bunch of years [if they are smart] before they invest in thousands of dollars of gear. [if they ever do get gear] Its not rocket science.

you speak of bantha fodder

quote:

Originally posted by Numb sixofour.604, Inputting notes with a mouse is faster? in 7 years you still can't play a keyboard? There was a time when you actually had to play what you recorded. It might be an amazing concept to you but people can and still do it. Your logic is flawed. Come back in about ten more years. Maybe we can talk then. Feel free to ignore this, I'm done.

No one said people can't play keyboard, I said its redundant. There is no quantifiable benefit to doing something on a keyboard as opposed to input notes manually.

Besides, many classical musicians actually wrote notes down in paper before they even played them for the first time. So its not strange to manually write notes on a PC instead of using an instrument to play them.

Heck, even most classical musicians couldn't play every instrument in an orchestra, yet they still wrote music for each instrument.

I input notes because its faster and easyer and more precise. If you can play an arpeggio that uses 12 keys at the same time at 184 BPM, then let me know. Untill then, you go on and live in your fanatsy world where playing on a keyboard is easyer.

http://tindeck.com/listen/xgcf

Play that, its even at half its speed for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Numb There was a time when you actually had to play what you recorded. It might be an amazing concept to you but people can and still do it.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 easyer Untill

Case closed.

Next time use a spell check.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Case closed. Next time use a spell check.

Fail. Next time make sure I actually mispelled the words.

I suppose colour and behaviour are mispellings also.

Take an etymology class sometime. [Note: I said Etymology not ENTymology]

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 No one said people can't play keyboard, I said its redundant. There is no quantifiable benefit to doing something on a keyboard as opposed to input notes manually. Besides, many classical musicians actually wrote notes down in paper before they even played them for the first time. So its not strange to manually write notes on a PC instead of using an instrument to play them. Heck, even most classical musicians couldn't play every instrument in an orchestra, yet they still wrote music for each instrument. I input notes because its faster and easyer and more precise. If you can play an arpeggio that uses 12 keys at the same time at 184 BPM, then let me know. Untill then, you go on and live in your fanatsy world where playing on a keyboard is easyer. http://tindeck.com/listen/xgcf Play that, its even at half its speed for you.

Its much much easier to trial and error a melody or chord progression while playing the keyboard. Its also much easier to find rhythm to your composition.

Well, I prefer the other way. What ever works for the individual. But going off current trends, it doesn't look to good for hardware in the future of production. Heh, imagine in 10 years when laptops have high quality monitors built into them. I bet many will sacrifice acoustic treatment in favor of a nice compact box. People will be able to have literally everything associated with music production contained in one box. So much for hardware then.

Most people will always drop quality over quantity, easy of use, and speed of production. A simple box with point and click music production will be pretty popular. People already want a synth that sounds good, but doesn't need massive programming, people already want literally one button mastering and compression and such. Its not inconcivable that everything else will continue to get simplified. [sacrificing quality for ease of use and speed] Music will become shittyer of course, but hey, trance got horrendously shitty after 99', but people still like it [actually, even more people like it after 99']. So who cares of the music gets shitty?

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