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-- Congressman warns of dictatorship
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quote:

Originally posted by ziptnf Oh please, that is absolutely fucking ridiculous and you know it. It is a popular thing these days, to hate on presidents just because you can. How has Obama miserably failed his agenda fucking 6 months into his presidency?? George Bush was a catastrophic president, and everyone who isn't a partisan hack agrees. Obama hasn't been anywhere near as bad, unless you call trying to fix a failed economy being a bad president Here are a few things ol' W did, and let's compare them to the things Obama has done while in office: 1. Circumventing the constitution through warrantless wiretapping, destruction of habeas corpus, and trying to quietly remove the separation between church and state. Why would a "born again christian" feel the need to start a war because God told him to? 2. Detaining and torturing Iraqi prisoners in ways that are illegal according to the Geneva Convention. 3. Completely losing the trust of the American people. 4. Started 2 wars and put the country in tremendous debt. Before the republican posters here start to ream me for saying that Bush put in a lot of debt while Obama is doing a lot more must tell me what good Bush's 3 trillion dollars did. Did he invest all of the money he spent while he was in office on things that could help the American people, or did he spend it on putting more troops in Iraq? Seriously, get fucked, Bush defenders.

Really tho, the previous President put us under two wars with one under false pretenses, and you want to call Obama a dictator because he's trying to fix our healthcare system?! Grow up, for fucks sake.

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT Again, you really haven't said much here, in substance that is. All you did was rant and rave about the opposite view being wrong without giving any clear evidence as to why you think so. Try again, seriously. I am always interested in the opposite point of view of my own but I can't take it seriously if it is only going to consist of ranting and raving.

no.

He pointed out rather articulately that Obama's administration has not been moving toward a dictatorship compared to either the past administration or the laws of the land.

If your description of ranting and raving was that last post I have serrious cause for concern that you are either not interested in the opposite point of view or really struggle with reading comprehension.

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT Remember that there are also people who don't see Americans as just Republican or Democrat either. Strip the Republican name tag from Bush and Democrat name tag from Obama and all I see is two very bad presidents who pushed for the same agenda.

I like this bit.

I'd love to see more parites in the US but I think that the culture of black/white, right/wrong, with us/against us is far to deeply ingrained in the population as a whole (a large segment withstanding) to be able to change in my life time.

Obama has not been pushing for the same agenda as Bush. The Bush administration was bent on American Primacy and small government yet acted as a big government imperialist police state. The Obama administration is trying to get health care sorted out.

What's kind of ironic in a sad way is that the people who are so against providing medical assistance for thier neibours who WANT IT are bent on providing democracy for people half way around the world, who speak a different language, and DON'T WANT IT!

Yet to balance views a bit, if Obama was to reverse some of the Bush power grabs it would be an excelent move away from a totalitarian state.

The Obama dictatorship is preferred.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Are you really that fucking dumb? You think because he appointed a few czars to help him run his government, that we're on the road to dictatorship and fascist rule? Seriously?

A "few" czars? Who's fucking dumb. He has more czars than cabinet appointees!!! Don't you get it? Czars are not accountable. They are not vetted (obviously, if you've been watching the demise of the SELF DESCRIBED communist and 9/11 truther Van Jones). They are paid with taxpayer dollars and nobody knows how much. They totally circumvent the confirmation process that elected officials must endure, have authority over those same elected officials, and are in charge of major policy and economic decisions,.... and answer to nobody except the president.

And by the way, as much as you don't want to believe it, facism is happening and it's not even a secret.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss A "few" czars? Who's fucking dumb. He has more czars than cabinet appointees!!! Don't you get it? Czars are not accountable. They are not vetted (obviously, if you've been watching the demise of the SELF DESCRIBED communist and 9/11 truther Van Jones). They are paid with taxpayer dollars and nobody knows how much. They totally circumvent the confirmation process that elected officials must endure, have authority over those same elected officials, and are in charge of major policy and economic decisions,.... and answer to nobody except the president. And by the way, as much as you don't want to believe it, facism is happening and it's not even a secret.

Abstinence Czar Administrator of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) Tobias, Randall[8] 2006-2007 Pres Nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W.
AIDS Czar Director of the Office of National AIDS Policy Evertz, Scott[13] 2001-2002 Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
AIDS Czar Director of the Office of National AIDS Policy O'Neill, Joe[14] 2002-2003 Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
AIDS Czar Director of the Office of National AIDS Policy Thompson, Carol[15] 2004-2006 Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
Bank Bailout Czar United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Financial Stability, Senior Advisor to Secretary of the Treasury Kashkari, Neel[21]. 2008-2009 (New position), Pres nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Bioethics Czar Advisor to the President, Chairman of The President's Council on Bioethics Kass, Leon[23] 2001-2005 (New position), Exec order, Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
Bird flu Czar Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services, Advisor to the President for Public Health Emergency Preparedness Simonson, Stewart[24] 2004-2006 (New position), Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
Birth control czar Deputy Assistant Secretary of Population Affairs, Department of Health and Human Services Keroack, Eric [25] 2006-2007 Pres Appointed Bush, George W. √
Budget czar Director of the White House Office of Management and Budget Daniels, Mitchell E.[28] 2001-2003 Pres Nominated, Senate Confirmed Bush, George W. √
Budget Czar Director of the White House Office of Management and Budget Bolten, Joshua[29] 2003-2006 Pres nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Budget Czar Director Office of Management and Budget Portman, Rob [30] 2006-2007 Pres nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Clean Up Czar Assistant Secretary for Environmental Management, Department of Energy (nuclear clean up) Roberson, Jessie[32] 2001-2004 Pres nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Clean Up Czar Assistant Secretary for Environmental Management, United States Department of Energy (nuclear clean up) Rispoli, James[33] 2005-2008 Sec. of Energy appointed, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Communications Czar Counselor to the President, Special counselor to the President Bartlett, Dan [35] 2005-2007 Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
Cyber Security Czar, Cyber Czar Special Advisor to the President on Cybersecurity, Office of Management and Budget (OMB) Clarke, Richard A. [38] 2001-Oct to 2003-Feb (New position), Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
Cyber Security Czar, Cyber Czar Director, National Cyber Security Center Beckstrom, Rod[39] 2008 - 2009 (New position), Presidential directive, Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
Democracy Czar Deputy National Security Advisor for Global Democracy Strategy Abrams, Elliott[53] 2005-2008 Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
Domestic Policy Czar Chief Domestic Policy Coordinator, Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor to the President, White House Deputy Chief of Staff Rove, Karl[55] 2004-2006 Pres appointed Bush, George W. √
Drug Czar Director National Drug Control Policy Walters, John P.[63] 2001-2009 Pres nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W.
Faith-Based Czar, Faith Czar Director, White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Willett, Don[citation needed] 2001 Exec order Bush, George W.
Faith-Based Czar, Faith Czar Director, White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives DiIulio, John[citation needed] 2001 Exec order Bush, George W.
Faith-Based Czar, Faith Czar Director, White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Towey, Jim[75] 2002-2006 Exec order Bush, George W.
Faith-Based Czar, Faith Czar Director, White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Hein, Jay[76] 2006-2008 Exec order Bush, George W.
Food Safety Czar Assistant Commissioner for Food Protection Acheson, David W. K.[82] 2007-2008 Pres. appointed Bush, George W. √
Global AIDS Czar Coordinator of U.S. Government Activities to Combat HIV/AIDS Globally with the rank of Ambassador Tobias, Randall][83] 2003-2006 (New position), Pres. appointed, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Global AIDS Czar Coordinator of U.S.Government Activities to Combat HIV/AIDS Globally, with the rank of Ambassador Dybul, Mark [84] 2006-2009 Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Health Czar for WTC, World Trade Center Health Czar Special coordinator to respond to health effects of September 11 attacks, World Trade Center (WTC) Medical Monitoring and Treatment Program, also served as Director, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health Howard, John[90] 2006-2008 Pres. Appointed Bush, George W. √
Health IT Czar National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, Department of Health and Human Services Brailer, David J.[91] 2004-2006 (New position), Exec order, appointed by Sec. of HHS Bush, George W.
Homeland Security Czar Secretary, U.S. Department of Homeland Security Chertoff, Michael[92] 2005-2009 Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W.
Homeless Czar, Homelessness Czar Executive Director United States Interagency Council on Homelessness Phil Mangano[93] 2002-2008 Pres. appointed Bush, George W. √
Gulf Coast Reconstruction Czar, Hurricane Katrina Recovery Czar Federal Coordinator of Hurricane Katrina Recovery Effort Powell, Donald E.[95] 2005-2008 Pres. appointed Bush, George W. √
Intelligence Czar Director of National Intelligence Negroponte, John[99] 2005-2007 (New position), Congress mandated, Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W.
Intelligence Czar Director of National Intelligence McConnell, John Michael[100] 2005-2009 Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W.
Manufacturing Czar Assistant Secretary for manufacturing and services, U.S. Commerce Department Frink, Albert[103] 2004-2007 (New postion), Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W.
Manufacturing Czar Assistant Secretary for manufacturing and services, U.S. Commerce Department Sutton, William G.[104] 2007-2008 Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W.
Policy Czar Assistant to the President for Policy and Strategic Planning Gerson, Michael[112] 2005-2006 Pres. appointed Bush, George W. √
Public Diplomacy Czar Special advisor to the President, Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs Hughes, Karen[113] 2005-2007 Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Public Diplomacy Czar Undersecretary of State for Public Affairs and Public Diplomacy Glassman, James[114] 2008-2009 Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Reading czar President's Advisor on Reading First Initiative, Director of Reading Research, National Institutes of Child Health and Development, Member of the President's Commission on Excellence in Special Education Lyon, G. Reid[115] 2001-2005 Pres. appointed Bush, George W.
Regulatory Czar Director of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs Office of Management and Budget Graham, John D.[117] 2001-2006 Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W.
Regulatory Czar Director of the Office of Information and Regulatory AffairsOffice of Management and Budget Dudley, Susan[118] 2006-2009 Recess appointment, Nominee failed to win Senate confirmation 2 attempts Bush, George W.
Science Czar Science Advisor to the President, Director, White House Office of Science and Technology Policy Marburger, John[122] 2001 Oct - 2009 Jan Pres. nominated, Senate confirmed Bush, George W. √
Terrorism Czar National coordinator for security, infrastructure protection and counter-terrorism, cabinet level rank removed Clarke, Richard A.[127] 2001 Jan - 2001 Oct Pres. appointed (held over from Clinton administration) Bush, George W. √
Terrorism Czar, Counterterrorism Czar National Director for Combating Terrorism, Deputy National Security Advisor Downing, Wayne[128] 2001-Nov to 2002-Jun (New position), Pres. appointed Bush, George W. √
War Czar Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for Iraq and Afghanistan Lute, Douglas[131] 2007-present (New Position), Pres. appointed Bush, George W.



That bastard Obama, appointing all those unaccountable, unvetted, unelected czars...the nerve of that socialist fascist negro...his actions will bring down the country!

Nice work, Moongoose. Very well played.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Nice work, Moongoose. Very well played.

Not really- he is using Bush as an example to justify what Obama is doing, when he is obviously anti-Bush and I would bet had issues with Bush's "executive power grabs" such as that. Yes, deflecting the focus from Obama to Bush is a nice spin job indeed. However, the fact remains that Obama has more czars than cabinet appointees... some of which are far more radical than any Bush appointee you can point to. Obama has appointed about as many czars in 8 months as Bush did in 8 years. Scary trend.

quote:

Faith-Based Czar, Faith Czar Director, White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Willett, Don[citation needed] 2001 Exec order Bush, George W. Faith-Based Czar, Faith Czar Director, White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives DiIulio, John[citation needed] 2001 Exec order Bush, George W. Faith-Based Czar, Faith Czar Director, White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Towey, Jim[75] 2002-2006 Exec order Bush, George W. Faith-Based Czar, Faith Czar Director, White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Hein, Jay[76] 2006-2008 Exec order Bush, George W. Faith-Based Czar Director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships DuBois, Joshua[77] 2009-present Pres. appointed Obama, Barack

There's your dictators.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Not really- he is using Bush as an exaple to justify what Obama is doing, when he is obviously anti-Bush and I would bet had issues with Bush's "executive power grabs" such as that. Yes, deflecting the focus from Obama to Bush is a nice spin job indeed. However, the fact remains that Obama has more czars than cabinet appointees... some of which are far more radical than any Bush appointee you can point to. Obama has appointed about as many czars in 8 months as Bush did in 8 years. Scary trend.

Then provide a list to compare, and we'll see how many new positions have been created. You keep saying there are more czars than cabinet secretaries (of which there are now 15), but don't provide data.

And where do you place such people as the National Intelligence Director, often referred to as the Intelligence Czar. My guess is that your source counts that as a shadowy position.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Then provide a list to compare, and we'll see how many new positions have been created. You keep saying there are more czars than cabinet secretaries (of which there are now 15), but don't provide data.

List of czars by position and name begins about 45 seconds in. 36 so far.


http://www.pjtv.com/v/2333

quote:

Rubber Czar Rubber Director Jeffers, Bill[120] 1942-1943 (New position), Exec order, appointed by Chairman of War Production Board Roosevelt, Franklin �� ... AIDS Czar National AIDS Policy Coordinator, Member of White House Domestic Policy Council Gebbie, Kristine[10] 1993-1994 Pres appointed Clinton, Bill ��

AHA!

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Not really- he is using Bush as an example to justify what Obama is doing, when he is obviously anti-Bush and I would bet had issues with Bush's "executive power grabs" such as that. Yes, deflecting the focus from Obama to Bush is a nice spin job indeed. However, the fact remains that Obama has more czars than cabinet appointees... some of which are far more radical than any Bush appointee you can point to. Obama has appointed about as many czars in 8 months as Bush did in 8 years. Scary trend.

Delegation is probably the most important skill a politician can have.

Responsibility is a must though.

Bush didn't take any and should have.

Obama stands as responsible for the actions of those he has appointed so it shouldn't matter if he appoints a million people as long as he stands behind thier decisions.

He was elected, the populus has given him the imparative to lead with an undisputed margin. A part of leadership is apointing people to do jobs.

If you don't like big government then you can understand how inefficient it would be to have elections for every little position.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Not really- he is using Bush as an example to justify what Obama is doing, when he is obviously anti-Bush and I would bet had issues with Bush's "executive power grabs" such as that. Yes, deflecting the focus from Obama to Bush is a nice spin job indeed. However, the fact remains that Obama has more czars than cabinet appointees... some of which are far more radical than any Bush appointee you can point to. Obama has appointed about as many czars in 8 months as Bush did in 8 years. Scary trend.

Ill take a page out of ol Roberto's book here and say that i cant recall ever complaining about bush attempting to grab more power by appointing czars, i may have made fun of an appointment with a somewhat ridiculous title, but accusing him of trying to grab excessive power with these appointments no.

But again, i do not recall you ever complaining about it as well. Im not using Bush as an example to justify what Obama is doing i used him as an example that czars are not an Obama invention but that the presidents have appointed czars since as far as i can tell when Roosevelt was in office (though good old Georgie did appoint more than all the previous presidents put together). So keeping that in mind, after 75 years of little or no complaining about president appointed czars, be it by a democratic or a republican president, why is suddenly Obama the one president who cannot be trusted with this appointments, what makes him the one that will abuse these positions in order to wreak havoc upon the country?

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Not really- he is using Bush as an example to justify what Obama is doing, when he is obviously anti-Bush and I would bet had issues with Bush's "executive power grabs" such as that. Yes, deflecting the focus from Obama to Bush is a nice spin job indeed. However, the fact remains that Obama has more czars than cabinet appointees... some of which are far more radical than any Bush appointee you can point to. Obama has appointed about as many czars in 8 months as Bush did in 8 years. Scary trend.

These spin jobs you point out aren't anything new. I would say early in Bush's 2nd term right about the time this country was getting divided by the war in Iraq, there were plenty of deflections by the right whenever someone tried to criticize Bush, and it always went back to Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton was wrong for doing this, Bill Clinton was wrong for doing that...Oh at least Bush didn't screw any interns and lie about it. The Republicans and conservatives have been just as guilty pulling these spin jobs as much as you're whining about how the Dems are deflecting the Obama attacks. Old news. Deal with it.

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