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Great tip, thank u.

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Originally posted by Stef As further proof for the strength of sampling, there have been quite a few famous songs that were simply sample based and every synth sound was a sample from VEC or what have you. I've noticed a lot of people rant and rave about how much gear they have and how much time they spend programming synths... but after i listen to the final product i am always amazed at how sub-par it truly is. I'm not going to name anyone here but i think the producers know who they are. At the end of the day you can use whatever you want but only the final product counts for anything. No one but the sound design geeks out there honestly care that you've spent x amount of time programming a certain sound. Sampling is an art form in an of itself. Laidback Luke, arguably one of the biggest names and trendsetters in the house scene, said it himself when people ask him how he makes his kicks and other samples; he said he just rips them straight out of a track he likes. Honestly, I'm just tired of this bullshit elitism, i don't care how much experience you have or how "correct" you are in what you do. sorry /rant_over

lol swiping other peoples hardwork because they wont spend the time on making them is pure lazy in my book.
and the track may sound good or better as a finished song but sorry its not there workb end off.

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Originally posted by owien lol swiping other peoples hardwork because they wont spend the time on making them is pure lazy in my book. and the track may sound good or better as a finished song but sorry its not there workb end off.

Well you continue to do things your own way, i just highly doubt you are getting anything out of it.

quote:

Originally posted by owien lol swiping other peoples hardwork because they wont spend the time on making them is pure lazy in my book. and the track may sound good or better as a finished song but sorry its not there workb end off.

As I said, everyone has their own opinion.

My opinion is, that unless you:

1) build your own (analogue, obviously) sound sources, using components you have created yourself (no off-the shelf russian circuits - I build all my own circuit boards, vacuum tubes and so on, from materials I took from the earth with my own bare hands);

2) sample them using a microphone you've also built yourself, into a computer you've built yourself (once again, from the ground up, using a chip architecture you've designed rather than an Intel/ AMD copy), running an operating system you've written;

3) use the samples in a sequencer which you've written (using a computer language you created, rather than using something off-the-shelf, such as C++)

Then you're lazy. And not a "real" musician. And a jerk. Because using anything that anyone else did is just plain wrong.

But as I said, this is purely my opinion. Others are equally valid.

^LOL EPIC WIN.

Get em Derail!!!

In all honesty it's true all that matters is the final product. Sampling has been an integral part of music production for many many years and spanned many different genres. This will not change anytime soon; if at all.

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Originally posted by Stef Well you continue to do things your own way, i just highly doubt you are getting anything out of it.

well of course i am because its all my own work ive spent the time making something witch is my own.and not swiped from someone else.

I've got different folders where I sort my "keepers"

for instance....
atmosphere
stabs
synths
one-shot synths
one-shot bass
one-shot perc
perc loops
kicks
fx
vocals


I go through my sample packs and take out the samples that I like and throw them into whatever respective folder they belong in. I've developed a hell of a database in my opinion. I honestly don't need any more sample packs but they're addicting as hell.

quote:

Originally posted by derail As I said, everyone has their own opinion. My opinion is, that unless you: 1) build your own (analogue, obviously) sound sources, using components you have created yourself (no off-the shelf russian circuits - I build all my own circuit boards, vacuum tubes and so on, from materials I took from the earth with my own bare hands); 2) sample them using a microphone you've also built yourself, into a computer you've built yourself (once again, from the ground up, using a chip architecture you've designed rather than an Intel/ AMD copy), running an operating system you've written; 3) use the samples in a sequencer which you've written (using a computer language you created, rather than using something off-the-shelf, such as C++) Then you're lazy. And not a "real" musician. And a jerk. Because using anything that anyone else did is just plain wrong. But as I said, this is purely my opinion. Others are equally valid.

i see why you would use that stand point but in the end to be alble to make all your own work has to more rewarding and makes it far better to make things work in the track.

yes it is all down to personal prefence granted if you play piano then their must be loads of songs made using the same notes as before. but why spend time on playing songs other people have written other then learning when you can create your own?

witch is my hole point.

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Originally posted by owien i see why you would use that stand point but in the end to be alble to make all your own work has to more rewarding and makes it far better to make things work in the track. yes it is all down to personal prefence granted if you play piano then their must be loads of songs made using the same notes as before. but why spend time on playing songs other people have written other then learning when you can create your own? witch is my hole point.

Hey mate, hopefully this doesn't come off as offensive but you need a new keyboard or some english lessons!

As for using samples, it all comes down to personal preference which you did say in your post. Then you turn around and basically talk about the only way that one can achieve rewarding productions is through making everything themselves. That may be the case for you, but it's not the case for everybody, and to try and tell people or convince them that your way is the right way (in any subjective conversation, not just using samples) makes you look quite silly.

+1

ultimately the nature of the completed work is what matters, and again if someone uses samples, i agree that the context in which they may use them is going to be entirely different to how someone else would. And, in most cases we are merely repeating the past with sound production anyhow to a general extent so the idea of creating something completely new is far from realistic (of course this is not entirely accurate) but i am sure it's understandable. most things are re-creations of the past just variations to arrangement and composition are what exists, and thats what makes it new.

I chalk this up to each person drawing their own line in the sand. Sure, it's probably more rewarding from a personal standpoint and probably gains you more respect and admiration from your peers if you do it all yourself, but that comes along with its own set of compromises. I could probably spend the next 10 years writing an original symphony that is composed and performed entirely by me. The classical music purists would say "good god, that's horrid", a fairly large contingent would probably say "wow, that's pretty good considering he did it all himself", and most would probably say "you wasted how much of your life on this?". For me, I don't feel the need to do everything myself and, quite honestly, I get the most satisfaction out of songs that involve other people.

But, as far as samples go, I find it much easier and quicker to use one-shots for drums and SFX, and the occasional loop for percussion (e.g., latin percs, sometimes hihats, noise/background sounds). I often end up altering these sounds anyway, sometimes drastically and sometimes very minimally, and my ultimate goal is simply to get the sound or pattern that I'm after. So I don't really realize any substantial increase in self-satisfaction whether I use a straight sample, an altered sample, or something I made myself. I'm satisfied if it sounds the way I want it to sound.

This forum is the internet's short bus.

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Originally posted by hexadecimal This forum is the internet's short bus.

And yet you've been riding it for 5.5 years...

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Hey mate, hopefully this doesn't come off as offensive but you need a new keyboard or some english lessons! As for using samples, it all comes down to personal preference which you did say in your post. Then you turn around and basically talk about the only way that one can achieve rewarding productions is through making everything themselves. That may be the case for you, but it's not the case for everybody, and to try and tell people or convince them that your way is the right way (in any subjective conversation, not just using samples) makes you look quite silly.

not really and no i'm not here trying to make people come round to my way off thinking. why would i if you're happy swiping other peoples work then fine.

some of the best producers in the game build from the ground up and make nearly all their own work witch begs the question why?

I won't deny that. It's good entertainment, especially now that the DJ revolution has become the "producer" revolution. Thanks, Ableton.

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Originally posted by hexadecimal I won't deny that. It's good entertainment, especially now that the DJ revolution has become the "producer" revolution. Thanks, Ableton.

its just a shame most dj's cant make a good track with it to save thier lives

Did Subtle just say that transfering files over the internet causes data loss?

The main thing about a sample is the fact that most of it, cannot be altered, EQing and FX can only do so much. And this is the dividing line. The line between people who make good music by maticulously altering every tiny little detail, and thus can't afford to use many samples, and the people who make good music by useing a few samples, some eq and do general production.

Who is better? ... is debatable, one could say that more technical person has more skill and is able to fine tune everything better. Then again, one could say they less technical guy who just puts things together without much fine tuning, doesn't need to have loads of skill. In the end its what ever works for the person.

Math problems do not have one solution. Take an algebraic equation, there are usualy many ways to get the same answer. I know this, I failed math because I got the right answers using my method and not theirs, and the Nazi teachers wanted us to do it their way, but I was like "No, fuck you"..etc etc...

/rant

Vec packs are not bad at all to be honest why are you "low res mp3 loops" people using loops anyway. The way i saw it was the loops are collections of percussive hits etc i chop them up to get grooves and things.

So people really think that vengeance literally just go and steal bits from peoples songs an get away with it? on the scale that they do?

PVD uses some of the little vec sounds or does he......?

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Originally posted by sixofour.604 The main thing about a sample is the fact that most of it, cannot be altered,

Thats an insane thing to say your just being silly.

Yes, Vengence really does go steal samples, we had a thread exposing them on this a long time ago. And they do it because no one cares about samples. Its EDM, if EDM complains about sample stealing..then its a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

quote:

people really think that vengeance literally just go and steal bits from peoples songs an get away with it? on the scale that they do?

yes almost everything they do is stolen, even the loops. This is why i refuse to buy any more of their products. I dont understand why anyone would pay $100 for sounds that if you really wanted to could quite easily rip yourself. Its not the ripping that bothers me, its the charging of $100 for somebody elses hard work that does and then passing it off as their own and getting all the credit!

I would love to find the thread i still dont believe that all vengeance do is nick samples.

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Originally posted by dannib for somebody elses hard work that does and then passing it off as their own and getting all the credit!

Isn't that what most new school producers are doing? Fitting that the people they buy or steal their samples from are also stealing their samples.

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Originally posted by owien not really and no i'm not here trying to make people come round to my way off thinking. why would i if you're happy swiping other peoples work then fine. some of the best producers in the game build from the ground up and make nearly all their own work witch begs the question why?

Most of the best producers, on the other hand, use quality samples.

And I'm not trying to get people around to my way of thinking either. Why would I, if you're happy swiping other people's hard work in creating computers and sequencers to create music? I think it's absolutely horrible, not creating the sequencer and all the synths and effects you use yourself, but if you're fine with that....then fine. If you can live with yourself, and sleep at night...then that's just fine.

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