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-- WAV vs MP3, the showdown
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didn't we go through this like a million times
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| Originally posted by Syntonic lol If you really listen to FLAC with some nice phones and listen to WAV or vinyl especially, you'll notice highs are dynamic and lows have warmth.Besides this dumb, if anyone thinks mp3's sound is better is lying or hasn't experienced better.And don't make this into a FLAC thread all I'm saying is there still a good chunk missing from the master  |
Who cares? 320kbps mp3 sounds fine as long as you're not a whiny little bitch.
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| Originally posted by floyd741 Who cares? 320kbps mp3 sounds fine as long as you're not a whiny little bitch. |
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| Originally posted by david.michael lol, I think this should be the finalizing argument henceforth. |
I'm going to add a couple of the points SCM made over at isra, as this whole thing was his project anyway.
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On 2009-09-10 16:29, subconsciousmind wrote: all rigs very often do not have a good transmission above 15khz. 128kbps can be heard, that is true for sure. there really is a lot missing 320kbps, as good as no chance, anywhere. |
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On 2009-09-10 16:39, subconsciousmind wrote: As for the physical sound: if you can tell the difference, which file is the wav? A B C or D? or maybe even which is the 192, 128, 320? The thing is a lot of people are saying "mp3 are bad" but they are either just repeating other peoples words or when speaking from experience are talking about badly converted mp3s or 128kbps mp3s or mp3s that have been reconverted into an mp3 in another bitrate etc. But thats totally missing the point. If an mp3 is properly, professionally encoded a 320kbps mp3 is as good as perfect and noone would ever know. Even 192kbps (which I would never use) is as good as inaudibly different in most environments. all the fuss around the lossless (some even argue about wav or flac) is pointless if noone can tell the difference between a 320kbps and a wav. I encode all my CDs in 320kbps, all my downloads I select 320kbps. Even my unmastered songs I export directly to 320kbps when I need to listen to them im my car to work on the mix. I've tried using wavs for a time.. I didn't notice a difference. |
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On 2009-09-10 19:44, subconsciousmind wrote:
with all due respect, but that is nonsense. You are talking as if PAs would be high end speakers. A fine pair of HiFi speakers easily sounds better than most rigs. on most PAs (especially those at psytrance parties) the difference is even smaller. The definition needed to show the difference can almost not be achieved with a speaker for high volumes. Furthermore I've done blind tests with friends here with professional gear from soundcard to speakers. noone could identify the 320kbps so far. |
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On 2009-09-11 11:36, subconsciousmind wrote:
The reason why I dont use VBR 0 is because some mp3 players use more battery to decode them and some don't even play them or tend to glitch. But Assuming the grafic from your link is correct you are right, in that case the gain in quality for a 320kbps doesn't justify the gain of file size. I didn't know that. |
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| Originally posted by Cryogen Free LOSSLESS Audio Codec The clue is in the name. |
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| Originally posted by palm Free??? I dont get it. |
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| Anyway nothing digital is lossless, it cant be. |
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| Originally posted by palm Free??? I dont get it. |
I can't tell the difference between 320 kbps MP3 and WAV, but I actually have a theory that I notice it on a subconscious level, because it seems like I always get tired of listening to MP3s significantly faster than I get tired of listening to WAVs or CDs.
Maybe just a placebo effect? 
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Maybe just a placebo effect? |
I'm not saying I "hear" the difference and could tell between two files in a blind test. I'm saying I think I might "feel" it somehow over long periods of listening. I may just be imagining this, though.
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I may just be imagining this, though. |
on a huge crisp sound system you can tell the difference...at home who cares.
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| Originally posted by lenazi on a huge crisp sound system you can tell the difference...at home who cares. |
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| Originally posted by boris_the_bear didn't we go through this like a million times |
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| Originally posted by lenazi on a huge crisp sound system you can tell the difference...at home who cares. |
the neighbours won`t like that
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| Originally posted by BenvanGils me ;p the ones who have that soundsystem at home ;p no only ninehundredninetyninethousendninehundredninetynine times |
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| Originally posted by lenazi i'm so jealous. |
u dont need a great stereo to hear the diference. u need a great track. which is very uncommon these days. so therefore it doesnt matter, shit will sound crap whether its mp3 or flac or wav. when sound is shit anyway, what we are left with is what is most functional. mp3 takes less space, downloads faster, faster to backup, have id3, even a record fotage can be attached now. easy choise imo.
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| Originally posted by lenazi on a huge crisp sound system you can tell the difference...at home who cares. |
iyo 
wav - flac: no difference possible, only in the case that one decoder has flaws. and flac doesn't leave frequencies out, it is just a mathematical compression process, as with zips
wav - mp3: depending on the material, it is sometimes easily audible. the mp3 encoding process discards high frequencies, time resolution and some of the stereo image. so acoustic percussive material is the best material to tell whats mp3 or wave. or a classical piano piece. in terms of stereo image, just inverse one channel of the file and add the other channel. what you get is the "side signal", and compression is easily audible. same with aac, although aac is slightly better.
vinyl - wav: the main difference is not the medium itself, it's the mastering process and the device which is playing. in theory, wav is much better, especially with 24 bit. 24 bit represent a usable dynamic range of 96-108 dB, sometimes 120 dB, which is INSANE compared to vinyl with its relatively high noise floor. in terms of frequency resolution, a regular 44,1 kHz wav is still technically better, vinyls "only" go up to 17-18 kHz. but the player makes a huge difference, waves/cds need steep lowpass filtering prior to d/a-conversion, which can lead to phase problems. vinyl doesn't have that. then, the ear tends to prefer the sound of the vinyl over the sound of the cd because of the lacking high end, which has no musical content but adds coldth. additionally, 16bit-waves have a usable dynamic range of only 60-72 dB, below that you can easily hear quantisation noise which is (without noise shaping) not pleasing. the noise of a playing vinyl is much more pleasing and adds warmth. the turntable adds slight irregularities in pitch and noise while playing, it is not proved if that is audible but it is possible. and the most important difference comes from the mastering, CDs tend to be overcompressed and multibandcompressed which adds sharpness and flattens the sound, they are sometimes even driven into distortion. distortion is much more seldom on a vinyl because it could destroy the cutting apparatus. and they are mastered for a different audience, so club music might have more bass on the vinyl version because the mastering has to be completely different
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| Originally posted by alexf coldth |
btw guys my argument about mp3's was based on people who just listen at home and do not dj. It is cheaper than wav and vinyl, and if you can get someone to spend a dime on music, you win.
I buy all formats and have a good pair of monitors at home, that being said even if you can tell a difference it is much more noticeable on one of the systems that i previously mentioned. If some kid buys and enjoys a 320 or 256 mp3, at least he bought it and get's enjoyment out of it.
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