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-- Hermaphrodite in the house?
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i think it must be seen as a mans body competing in a womens race

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit i dont see what the huge deal is.. its been done before this person had a sex change and competed http://www.fims.uwo.ca/NewMedia2008/page13022348.aspx now kristen worley

In that article one of the adopted principles is that a transgender athlete must have had gender reassignment surgery 2 years before competing and must undergo hormone treatment to counteract any advantage they might have over other atheletes.

Semenya had two testicles in her body pumping her with a level of testosterone that other competitors could not match.

thats bullshit seriously

like the turkish midget who could deadlift so much.


I'm sure usain bolt doesnt have the highest testosterone out of all the male runners. So what she was born that way, no need to ostracize her. Its her genetic advantage and she choses that sex and has lived her life at that sex.

In soccer they never use video judgement even when the calls are obvious. If she is not using preformance enhancing drugs so be it. Let her compete as a woman.

But I think the competition is gender divided because of that very difference though.. it's not a social distinction. It is specifically because our testicles allow us to achieve muscle growth that would prevent any woman from winning in a sporting event that relies on muscular exertion. It's segregation based purely on biological differences.

If a woman on the team artificially injected herself with 3 times the testosterone that a woman naturally produces, she would be rightly banned for cheating - that is giving herself an unfair advantage over other women. In this case Semenya was an unfortunate victim - she had no intention of cheating, but the fact remains that her advantage was just as unfair as that of the woman who artificially injects herself with testosterone.

I do feel sorry for her, but they have to draw the line somewhere... either that or give up the gender discrimination altogether and allow women to compete in the same events as men (good luck to them trying to win any athletics medals).


edit: having said that though.. Apparently a man would normally have 50 times more testosterone than a woman so perhaps there is scope for argument. Though I reckon if they allowed this then the whole Chinese women's side would be all hermaphrodites in a few years lol.

she is not much bigger then the other women. Heck there are alot of women that are bigger then her. Basically the tests were done (if i am understanding correctly) because she looked somewhat like a man. Feature wise.. not so much size.

Testes are homologous to ovaries and its not til later on in a males life that the testes drop. So essentially she has lived her life as a woman.

All men have different levels of testosterone. albeit 3 times may be excessive, its not the only factor thats going to determine whether a race is won. Should lance armstrong be disqualified because his VO2 max is siginificantly higher then most bikers? no since it is natural.

This woman is clearly identified as a woman. Perhaps her testes should be removed but it is part of her identity. A full fledged male having a sex change and hormonal treatment in order to compete in a womens league has a higher advantage then this intersexed (woman). This is since his genetics are coding and geared towards male traits.

I dunno i understand the whole issue with the 3 times more testosterone, but to be disqualified because of a birth defect is a play on eugenics. next thing you know blacks will have their own division. When was the last time a white man won 100 meter dash? lol.

i hope you see my point.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit she is not much bigger then the other women. Heck there are alot of women that are bigger then her. Basically the tests were done (if i am understanding correctly) because she looked somewhat like a man. Feature wise.. not so much size. Testes are homologous to ovaries and its not til later on in a males life that the testes drop. So essentially she has lived her life as a woman. All men have different levels of testosterone. albeit 3 times may be excessive, its not the only factor thats going to determine whether a race is won. Should lance armstrong be disqualified because his VO2 max is siginificantly higher then most bikers? no since it is natural. This woman is clearly identified as a woman. Perhaps her testes should be removed but it is part of her identity. A full fledged male having a sex change and hormonal treatment in order to compete in a womens league has a higher advantage then this intersexed (woman). This is since his genetics are coding and geared towards male traits. I dunno i understand the whole issue with the 3 times more testosterone, but to be disqualified because of a birth defect is a play on eugenics. next thing you know blacks will have their own division. When was the last time a white man won 100 meter dash? lol. i hope you see my point.

Yeah I totally see your point. Also she should have them removed because in cases like hers there's a very high chance that the internal testes become cancerous.

... also I still like the idea of a Chinese "ladies" olympic team that are all hermaphrodites :P. You can imagine them marching in at the opening ceremony with stubble and groin bulges wearing short skirts and make up lol

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy Yeah I totally see your point. Also she should have them removed because in cases like hers there's a very high chance that the internal testes become cancerous.

yeah perhaps. I personally don't really think it will hinder her performance much.

quote:

... also I still like the idea of a Chinese "ladies" olympic team that are all hermaphrodites :P. You can imagine them marching in at the opening ceremony with stubble and groin bulges wearing short skirts and make up lol

haha i think it would be easier to give a couple of males sex reassignment surgery.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit haha i think it would be easier to give a couple of males sex reassignment surgery.

Yeah I wouldn't put it below them to have a quiet word to men that don't quite make the men's squad "the testes come off or your family dies".. there's a strong history of eunuchs in China :P

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Semen...Ya!! /nuff said

ya. true story.

So it mentioned the female to male one's could father children. I wonder... if because of the blood spilling into their bladder that means they have a working uteras. Could they have an operation to get them pregnant (and then another one) to get the baby out again?

quote:

Originally posted by woscar's alt I thought this thread was about Lady Gaga, lol.

I was about to post exactly the same thing.

karim is taking a huge interest in hermaphrodites and transgendered people lately as he would like to avoid hitting on them in bar situations in the future...... he has a track record of this


transcript from a night out in ottawa

Karim: dude look at that chick she has huge cans
mark: dude she has an adams apple
Karim: no way shes totally hot, look at those cans
mark: point in case, she dances like elaine from seinfeld, she is packin heat, my guess is about 8" of it
karim: no way man she's way to hott to be a dude, ima go talk to her
*10 minutes later*
mark: i told ya so.....

Interesting article regarding the thread subject

The political infighting that has occured in SA as a result of this chick/dood has been epic so far!

quote:

Originally posted by leebates1986 Caster Semenya = Yes, A Secret Man

quote:

Originally posted by DjWhooCares you lie!

oho, i see what u did there

i kinda feel sorry for her/him/it, lol

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit yeah perhaps. I personally don't really think it will hinder her performance much.

Are you kidding me?

Of course it would.

Do you KNOW what testosterone does?

quote:

Originally posted by bas I thought this thread was about Fast Turtle.

Winner.

quote:

Originally posted by Spam Are you kidding me? Of course it would. Do you KNOW what testosterone does?

sure it may have an advantage..

but think about the male runners competing. Astro mentioned earlier an average of around 20 times more testosterone in males then women. So 3 times is not such a feat in comparison (im getting different readings as i don't have a reference for these i can't adhere to them but perhaps the estimate takes a different method of averageing. From lowest female to highest male is about 33 times more).



im getting a reading of 30 to 110 mg/Dl for females
and 300 to 1000 for males.

so we see a significant range here. to only be 3 times more then the average testosterone for females would be 140/2 = 70
70*3 = 210.

This is higher then a normal females high testosterone but compare it to male? you arent even at the minimum (males under 300 usually are considered candidates for hormone or drug therapy due to hypogonadism).

So anyways the question is where do you place her?

should black men be disqualified for the 100 meter dash?

Because she simply has (i would a ssume) a sex chromosome (since i assume as well that the y chromosome codes for the developement of the gonads to testes instead of ovaries.)

She also lived her entire life as a female. She looks less manly then some female wrestlers as well. (keep that in mind).

Testosterone doesnt make the racer, sure its key for strength muscle developement and increased libido, but im pretty sure i could probably beat ronnie coleman in a race. Or most female olympic runners could as well (im sure any olympic runner could beat coleman in a race).

Ben jonson took anabolic steroids yet still usain bolt has managed to shatter his steroid record.

1 9.58 +0.9 Usain Bolt Jamaica 16 August 2009 Berlin
2 9.71 +0.9 Tyson Gay United States 16 August 2009 Berlin
3 9.72 +0.2 Asafa Powell Jamaica 2 September 2008 Lausanne
4 9.79 +0.1 Maurice Greene United States 16 June 1999 Athens

ben jonson ran a 9.79.

lol i was pretty high when i wrote i could beat ronnie coleman in a race.

i hate being a thread killer can someone at least respond with a hrmmmmmm or intresting . or you're wrong!

Does she like men or women?
Either way, she's gay.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit i hate being a thread killer can someone at least respond with a hrmmmmmm or intresting . or you're wrong!

you LIE!!!


/better ?

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit sure it may have an advantage.. but think about the male runners competing. Astro mentioned earlier an average of around 20 times more testosterone in males then women. So 3 times is not such a feat in comparison (im getting different readings as i don't have a reference for these i can't adhere to them but perhaps the estimate takes a different method of averageing. From lowest female to highest male is about 33 times more). im getting a reading of 30 to 110 mg/Dl for females and 300 to 1000 for males. so we see a significant range here. to only be 3 times more then the average testosterone for females would be 140/2 = 70 70*3 = 210. This is higher then a normal females high testosterone but compare it to male? you arent even at the minimum (males under 300 usually are considered candidates for hormone or drug therapy due to hypogonadism).

She has testes, those testes produce testosterone. I'm sure it could be safely assumed she has the same level of testosterone in her system as, at least, a typical male.

quote:

So anyways the question is where do you place her?

Quite the conundrum indeed. It seems that segregating sport so that women have a chance at winning has caused quite the dilemma.

quote:

should black men be disqualified for the 100 meter dash?

No, why should they be? Black men run in races with other men. They are men, they run with men.

We're not talking about a female running with other females. We're talking about a human with testes and a vaginal opening (she doesn't even have a uterus. she's technically more of a male, than a female) competing with females, who do not have testes.

quote:

Because she simply has (i would a ssume) a sex chromosome (since i assume as well that the y chromosome codes for the developement of the gonads to testes instead of ovaries.) She also lived her entire life as a female. She looks less manly then some female wrestlers as well. (keep that in mind).

No, she looks like a man. No breasts, manly face, muscular... She looks like a man. If she had long hair, she'd look like a man with long hair. Whether she lives her life as a female or not does not change the fact that her testes give her a marked advantage over her competitors that no level of training, or superior technology will ever be able to overcome. There's a reason she left all the real females to run a race for second.

quote:

Testosterone doesnt make the racer, sure its key for strength muscle developement and increased libido, but im pretty sure i could probably beat ronnie coleman in a race. Or most female olympic runners could as well (im sure any olympic runner could beat coleman in a race).

Obviously, training and technology, as well as drive and determination do more than a simple level of testosterone in the system. It's a question of how much that extra testosterone will improve your performance.

quote:

Ben jonson took anabolic steroids yet still usain bolt has managed to shatter his steroid record. 1 9.58 +0.9 Usain Bolt Jamaica 16 August 2009 Berlin 2 9.71 +0.9 Tyson Gay United States 16 August 2009 Berlin 3 9.72 +0.2 Asafa Powell Jamaica 2 September 2008 Lausanne 4 9.79 +0.1 Maurice Greene United States 16 June 1999 Athens ben jonson ran a 9.79.

Ben Johnson is not Usain Bolt. Ben Johnson may not have been in the final race without those steroids. It's not a question of whether they will MAKE you run a record, it's that they improve your performance. If Usain Bolt was taking steroids, he could be running the 100m in around 9 seconds. Over time, sprinting records have got faster and faster. Ben Johnson took a 12 year short-cut. He shaved TWELVE YEARS off the natural speed-progression of the sport. That's a HUGE advantage.

quote:

Originally posted by chlola Does she like men or women? Either way, she's gay.

Oh, what a disability.

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