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-- Is a quality reverb essential for the truly professional sound?
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quote:

Originally posted by palm what about hardware reverbs/delays? which ones are good? id like one in a 19" rack. then use send/return stuff.

lexicon pcm 91, 480, 960, ...
bricasti m7

I really like the PCM91 as my main reverb. The price on them may have come down now that the PCM96 is out. Though I'm sure the 96 would be fantastic too (just a bit pricier).

However, a lot of the reverbs you've heard in your favourite trance songs are indeed on-board reverbs from various synths and samplers. If it sounds good in the mix, it's good.

another thing im wondering about when using hardware delays on send/return on daws is latency. how does that work?

In cubase (what i use) you have full delay compensation on external effects! works brilliantly too. what DAW are you using?

im learning logic atm, but i suck at it lol. also im trying to learn some ableton but not for production really, more for live/djeing.

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus lexicon pcm 91, 480, 960, ... bricasti m7

using those bricasti m7 impulses, very very nice!

even for my untrained ear the reverb of v-station sounds horrific.

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 using those bricasti m7 impulses, very very nice!

impulses capture only a small part of such a reverb as all modulation is lost. so just imagine how good those are in real. a rebverb is a very complex thing and is not that much about computing power. even after years the current vst reverbs are not even close to the top hardware reverbs out there.

but if someone wants a free reverb, i can't recommend enough the bootsie epicverb. just amazing this thing (as all his other plugins)

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus but if someone wants a free reverb, i can't recommend enough the bootsie epicverb. just amazing this thing (as all his other plugins)

+1, thanks for mentioning that before, I use it a lot now.

quote:

Originally posted by offensive_newbi even for my untrained ear the reverb of v-station sounds horrific.

It is , i always shove FL's reverb on a v-station channel because of it.

I haven't seen this mentioned so maybe it's just my kwerky view on things, but I tend to avoid using any of the built in verbs on my vsts.
I will switch all the verbs off on my vsts. Set up one buss that has a verb i.e. drum room style verb (Usually from Waves Rverb). I will route the majority of my high end stuff here in order to give it some nearby accoustic qualities which will help to take away that 'dry' computerised sound. The levels that I place on each sound comming into this buss will vary depending on the sound but I will audition each sound to ensure that it has a 'live' quality too it and the pre-delay will usually be set quite low here.

Then on another buss I will create a much bigger verb for a larger space which will usually have slightly higher levels on it for each sound with a greater setting on the pre delay so that it doesn't affect the verb from the first buss.

Doing this all of my sounds that utilise reverb will share the same sonic qualities and give the impression that they occupy the same space.
It also gives you the ability to EQ each reverb separately in the mix down so that you can control the reverb effect much better over all so if you have an element in the reverb that is affecting a primary sound in the mix you can cut that frequency on the effect rather than having to do to the sound itself.

I will also roll off the bottom end on the verb busses in order to ensure that the bass and rythm section are not affected and can cut cleanly through the mix.
I will also roll off higher freqs on verb to ensure that the things like high hats have a clean presence and are not interfered with by this effect.

It also produces less of a drain on valuable CPU as you will be using less effects overall.

Sometimes to add character to the delay that I use in the track I will create a separate buss for the delay for reasons mentioned above and then also route that to both verb units to ensure that the delay effect sounds like it is also in the same space.

Knowing how to use a verb well is more effective than having an expensive one.

Might want to give it a whirl.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus impulses capture only a small part of such a reverb as all modulation is lost. so just imagine how good those are in real. a rebverb is a very complex thing and is not that much about computing power. even after years the current vst reverbs are not even close to the top hardware reverbs out there. but if someone wants a free reverb, i can't recommend enough the bootsie epicverb. just amazing this thing (as all his other plugins)

Id love a chance to try out some of the supposed top hardware reverbs in a full mix - id be surprised if i could tell them being much different than the top s/w verbs

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 I haven't seen this mentioned so maybe it's just my kwerky view on things, but I tend to avoid using any of the built in verbs on my vsts. I will switch all the verbs off on my vsts. Set up one buss that has a verb i.e. drum room style verb (Usually from Waves Rverb). I will route the majority of my high end stuff here in order to give it some nearby accoustic qualities which will help to take away that 'dry' computerised sound. The levels that I place on each sound comming into this buss will vary depending on the sound but I will audition each sound to ensure that it has a 'live' quality too it and the pre-delay will usually be set quite low here. Then on another buss I will create a much bigger verb for a larger space which will usually have slightly higher levels on it for each sound with a greater setting on the pre delay so that it doesn't affect the verb from the first buss. Doing this all of my sounds that utilise reverb will share the same sonic qualities and give the impression that they occupy the same space. It also gives you the ability to EQ each reverb separately in the mix down so that you can control the reverb effect much better over all so if you have an element in the reverb that is affecting a primary sound in the mix you can cut that frequency on the effect rather than having to do to the sound itself. I will also roll off the bottom end on the verb busses in order to ensure that the bass and rythm section are not affected and can cut cleanly through the mix. I will also roll off higher freqs on verb to ensure that the things like high hats have a clean presence and are not interfered with by this effect. It also produces less of a drain on valuable CPU as you will be using less effects overall. Sometimes to add character to the delay that I use in the track I will create a separate buss for the delay for reasons mentioned above and then also route that to both verb units to ensure that the delay effect sounds like it is also in the same space. Knowing how to use a verb well is more effective than having an expensive one. Might want to give it a whirl. Cheers Nem

A+ post.

Emphasis on:

quote:

Knowing how to use a verb well is more effective than having an expensive one.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 I haven't seen this mentioned so maybe it's just my kwerky view on things, but I tend to avoid using any of the built in verbs on my vsts. I will switch all the verbs off on my vsts. Set up one buss that has a verb i.e. drum room style verb (Usually from Waves Rverb). I will route the majority of my high end stuff here in order to give it some nearby accoustic qualities which will help to take away that 'dry' computerised sound. The levels that I place on each sound comming into this buss will vary depending on the sound but I will audition each sound to ensure that it has a 'live' quality too it and the pre-delay will usually be set quite low here. Then on another buss I will create a much bigger verb for a larger space which will usually have slightly higher levels on it for each sound with a greater setting on the pre delay so that it doesn't affect the verb from the first buss. Doing this all of my sounds that utilise reverb will share the same sonic qualities and give the impression that they occupy the same space. It also gives you the ability to EQ each reverb separately in the mix down so that you can control the reverb effect much better over all so if you have an element in the reverb that is affecting a primary sound in the mix you can cut that frequency on the effect rather than having to do to the sound itself. I will also roll off the bottom end on the verb busses in order to ensure that the bass and rythm section are not affected and can cut cleanly through the mix. I will also roll off higher freqs on verb to ensure that the things like high hats have a clean presence and are not interfered with by this effect. It also produces less of a drain on valuable CPU as you will be using less effects overall. Sometimes to add character to the delay that I use in the track I will create a separate buss for the delay for reasons mentioned above and then also route that to both verb units to ensure that the delay effect sounds like it is also in the same space. Knowing how to use a verb well is more effective than having an expensive one. Might want to give it a whirl. Cheers Nem

That's a real interesting post.

Long ago I used to use one verb, cause thats all I had, but I always felt the tunes sounded like early nineties stuff and could'nt wait to get more verbs.

However, your post and another I've read recently, have got me thinking about re visiting this method.
Are you getting very high end professional sounding results for example do the the lead and strings sit well using the same verb?

i do it the exact same way like nemesis44. to expand a bit on this routing i usually put a eq BEFORE the reverb plugin on the reverb BUS and cut some high frequencies. this usually helps a lot to improve the sound quality of reverbs in the way that it reduces a lot the metallic sound of vst reverbs.

I just use DirectXMedia Echo and xVerb on ModPlug Tracker to get a combined echo-reverb space.
I found a good working setting with the xVerb and can't be bothered to change it, as it sounds best like that to me.

Seriously, from one Dutch tracker to another: WTF, Modplug?!?

If you're willing to try out some newer technology you might be interested in trying out Renoise .

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