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Originally posted by LeopoldStotch just wondering ..... was that your first real professional job (not counting any type of consulting / freelance work you did in the past) ?

Yea.

btw, just to note. don't want to bash consulting/freelancing as "professional" work. in my opinion, i find it a totally separate work environment outside of working inside an office/cubicle 8 hours a day with/under "upper" management.

and dude. sorry to break it to you, but what you went through is what happens in 90-95% of the companies out there. you will be very lucky to find a place where they won't piss you off.

10M GET IS MODGET

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Originally posted by LeopoldStotch btw, just to note. don't want to bash consulting/freelancing as "professional" work. in my opinion, i find it a totally separate work environment outside of working inside an office/cubicle 8 hours a day with/under "upper" management.

GOOD consulting comes at a huge price, those assholes make so much money.

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and dude. sorry to break it to you, but what you went through is what happens in 90-95% of the companies out there. you will be very lucky to find a place where they won't piss you off.

This. My boss is an asshole and gives customers expectations that his employees can't always guarantee. He will tell his customers that a huge feature will be done in two days and then walk into the office and tell us to get started. Sure, it fucking sucks, but practically every software job in America is like that. Bitching about it and getting fired because of it doesn't make you BETTER than them, it makes you a fucking idiot.

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Originally posted by LeopoldStotch btw, just to note. don't want to bash consulting/freelancing as "professional" work. in my opinion, i find it a totally separate work environment outside of working inside an office/cubicle 8 hours a day with/under "upper" management. and dude. sorry to break it to you, but what you went through is what happens in 90-95% of the companies out there. you will be very lucky to find a place where they won't piss you off.

Yea I understand, I think turn over rate is actually average 3 years, especially in web development stuff. It just got to a point where I wasn't happy working there anymore, I was glad to leave actually. This was a small firm too, basically me->management. There was no buffer.

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Originally posted by ziptnf This. My boss is an asshole and gives customers expectations that his employees can't always guarantee. He will tell his customers that a huge feature will be done in two days and then walk into the office and tell us to get started. Sure, it fucking sucks, but practically every software job in America is like that. Bitching about it and getting fired because of it doesn't make you BETTER than them, it makes you a fucking idiot.

Yea, thats the case, and its not that I bitched about that, I understand that part of the job. There was a shit ton of other stuff they did horribly, much more fundamental business practices and just the way they handled clients. They were not professional at all, they flew by the seat of their pants on every project. It just felt like we were starting over again with every new client.

I was fired because at lunch me and a couple other guys would take walks, and after this bat-shit insane client wanted me to "never fucking touch his code again" after I missed a spelling error I took a walk with them, and apparently thats when they decided that I was a "threat to the company" because we talked shit about them. Thats what we did every day for almost a year on our walks!!!

Also I think it was part cause they are hurting. They never re-filled my position, and I talk to a couple people still there and they said that work has dried up, they have no idea where the money for their paychecks is coming from.

i am not trying to flame you for once, but your termination was justified and would probably followed by many other companies if presented the similar situation.

you have to remember who is the employee and who is the employer. Would you talk shit to a girlfriend and expect her to still be with you?

I'm sure you are good at whatever it is you did and all, but never think for a second that you are so valuable that they can not find someone else to do your job without complaining at the drop of a hat. If they couldn't you would have not lost your job.

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Originally posted by ziptnf GOOD consulting comes at a huge price, those assholes make so much money.

yes they do. one of these days, i'll get to that point making Krypton money.

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Originally posted by lenazi i am not trying to flame you for once, but your termination was justified and would probably followed by many other companies if presented the similar situation. you have to remember who is the employee and who is the employer. Would you talk shit to a girlfriend and expect her to still be with you? I'm sure you are good at whatever it is you did and all, but never think for a second that you are so valuable that they can not find someone else to do your job without complaining at the drop of a hat. If they couldn't you would have not lost your job.

Exactly. Maybe he didn't bitch about it, but constantly talking shit about your boss while you're at work "taking a walk" or whatever is bound to get you in trouble somehow. Everyone bitches about their job, man, even me. You have to do your job, and do it right, and be willing to compromise and change plans at any moment. Work stinks, but if you want to make money, you have to follow the rules.

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Originally posted by lenazi i am not trying to flame you for once, but your termination was justified and would probably followed by many other companies if presented the similar situation. you have to remember who is the employee and who is the employer. Would you talk shit to a girlfriend and expect her to still be with you? I'm sure you are good at whatever it is you did and all, but never think for a second that you are so valuable that they can not find someone else to do your job without complaining at the drop of a hat. If they couldn't you would have not lost your job.

When its a company that has 11 people total, and you fire essentially half the team working on the ongoing, business sustaining project, over something the person says on their free time (at lunch, I never said anything on the clock) then they might feel it is legitimate, I might do the same, but once again, is that a smart business decision to make?

I did my job, I was always on time, met deadlines, and clients were generally happy with me (cause I fucking knew what the fuck I was doing and helped them out). To fire me over my opinion of them expressed off the clock, thats just silly.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby When its a company that has 11 people total, and you fire essentially half the team working on the ongoing, business sustaining project, over something the person says on their free time (at lunch, I never said anything on the clock) then they might feel it is legitimate, I might do the same, but once again, is that a smart business decision to make? I did my job, I was always on time, met deadlines, and clients were generally happy with me (cause I fucking knew what the fuck I was doing and helped them out). To fire me over my opinion of them expressed off the clock, thats just silly.

Understood, but there had to have been a legitimate reason to fire you. It sounds like you were innocent, but there might have been other stuff they held against you. Under most federal laws, you can't fire an employee without an actual excuse. What was the conversation you and your boss had when you were being fired?

you talk shit about bosses to friends and girlfriends.

you do this in a competitive environment where people want to get ahead, you will see that trust is not something to be exercised even if you eat lunch with the same guy for 20 years.

your behaviour was unprofessional, and you paid the price. Lesson hopefully learned, i learned it the same way a long time ago.

even if the company only had 2 people, someone still wants more money and to move up the ladder. I don't know anyone worth a damn who would be content to make the same money and do the same job without promotion until the day they retire.

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Originally posted by ziptnf Understood, but there had to have been a legitimate reason to fire you. It sounds like you were innocent, but there might have been other stuff they held against you. Under most federal laws, you can't fire an employee without an actual excuse. What was the conversation you and your boss had when you were being fired?

They said "we understand you have been talking about us with other employees, and you are not happy with how things are anymore, we cant have that, if those people are on the edge of quitting themselves you might push them over that edge, we cant risk that, so this is your last day here."

At that point it pretty much sounded to me like "well we suck, our employees know we suck and you might make them all quit."

I wasn't the only one bitching, EVERYONE was, no one was happy there. They almost fired a guy cause he posted a resume on craigslist... Everyone said that if the economy was better and they knew they could get another job they'd drop their place there that instant.

They were nice (and stupid) and said "you can quit or we can fire you, if you quit we will cite creative differences if another employer asks about you, if you get fired we will not give you a good review."

Since they didnt fucking keep records on their employees at all, NOTHING, besides paystubs, I thought "there is no fucking way you will say bad shit about me, cause one it wont be true if its in regards to my quality of work, and second if you do i could sue your ass for slander and you'd have nothing to back yourselves up" so I told them "fire me"

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Originally posted by lenazi even if the company only had 2 people, someone still wants more money and to move up the ladder. I don't know anyone worth a damn who would be content to make the same money and do the same job without promotion until the day they retire.

No one was getting promotions, I was payed 20k under the average salary for ONE of my TWO major job descriptions.

No one has got a promotion since I left either, lol.

Sounds like a shitty company, but you still blew it, and you haven't recovered since. Sucks for you, Nou

did you ever stop to think that your complaining was actually bothering some of the other people? Look beyond you for a second here.

Every office has that guy/girl who whines about everything and how much it should be bla bla bla bla. After a while it can be tiring for people around them to make a job (which is essential to have in life, and even if you don't like it you do it to put food on the table.) that some might not already like that much worse.

I know that people that are nothing but negative in the workplace make my day shittier, because all i can ever seem to think is, "if you hate it so damn much, why the hell are you still here? no one is forcing you to work here, why don't you leave those of us that want to be here work in peace."

that is all there is really to it.

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Originally posted by ziptnf Sounds like a shitty company, but you still blew it, and you haven't recovered since. Sucks for you, Nou

Recovered? I am sitting on unemployment still for a good while, I am only making 400$ less a month than I was at work, and I am working to get my own web development firm up and running with another guy that I have been doing free-lance/contract work with for like 6 or 7 years.

I am also mulling over this long stagnant open source root cause analysis software that I have been wanting to get going, and I have a couple other business plans up my sleeve.

If I go back to school in the winter, then well, I'm back in school for the next 2-6 years lol... I am young, have money, and living my life how I want to live it with out any real cares. I say I am doing pretty fucking good right now.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby No one was getting promotions, I was payed 20k under the average salary for ONE of my TWO major job descriptions. No one has got a promotion since I left either, lol.

it is their fault for still accepting to be there/being unskilled enough to find better.

your complaining did not make their experience better, i can guarantee you that.

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Originally posted by lenazi did you ever stop to think that your complaining was actually bothering some of the other people? Look beyond you for a second here. Every office has that guy/girl who whines about everything and how much it should be bla bla bla bla. After a while it can be tiring for people around them to make a job (which is essential to have in life, and even if you don't like it you do it to put food on the table.) that some might not already like that much worse. I know that people that are nothing but negative in the workplace make my day shittier, because all i can ever seem to think is, "if you hate it so damn much, why the hell are you still here? no one is forcing you to work here, why don't you leave those of us that want to be here work in peace." that is all there is really to it.

I never whined in the office, unless whined to first, I did all my whining on walks, volunteer walks, that actually grew in size as time went on, where people specifically joined in to voice their concerns about the company.

i have seen people fired for their behaviours outside of the office numerous times.

Guy says shit about company after hours about employer/boss/project manager and so on.

They find out.

They get rid of the cancer.

in anything team related, if you bring them down, you are off the team.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I never whined in the office, unless whined to first, I did all my whining on walks, volunteer walks, that actually grew in size as time went on, where people specifically joined in to voice their concerns about the company.

Sorry, dude, it's not your place to tell the company what their problems are and what you're "concerned" about. That's for them to decide. Sure, being a sheep that does what they're told is lame, but those sheep keep their jobs

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Originally posted by ziptnf Sorry, dude, it's not your place to tell the company what their problems are and what you're "concerned" about. That's for them to decide. Sure, being a sheep that does what they're told is lame, but those sheep keep their jobs

Which is why before I got this job I swore I would never work for anyone lol.

I only took this job cause it fell in my lap. My friend worked there and they wanted an intern (cause they are cheap and wanted free work) and I kicked so much ass in the first 2 weeks interning they hired me.

Then the only smart Principal left the company cause he knew the place was going to shit, and the other two partners were idiots, one a drama queen (a guy tho), and the other a lazy, idiotic slob.

Also, zip, they'd ask us what was wrong with the company, what was WRONG with the company, and if you told them they'd flip the fuck out.

They were immature little shits playing business. One was a high school drop out who ran the art side and did too many drugs, then found jessus and the other guy only knew how to program vb6 and AS2 but acted like he was gods gift to programming and he didnt even know what the fuck inheritance was in OOP. When he did learn, HE FUCKING USED IT ON EVERYTHING FOR NO REASON ClassA->ClassB->ClassC NONE OF THEM NEED TO EXTEND THAT FAR DOWN

social skills 101 should be a mandatory college course imo.

no matter what they were, at the end of the day they are still the ones who signed your paycheck. You act like you don't realize this.

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