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Originally posted by Leniu its awesome that uve spoken to larry david, but i have been watching the show since season 1 and whether its improv or not has nothing to do with how much i enjoy the comedy... so please dont tell me the point of the show is improv regardless of how many larry davids youve spoken to or how many actress friends you have

Your comments are completely senseless. Improv is an incredibly creative form of comedy. What is so hard to understand? The point of the show is improv and the comedic factor of it. You seem to want to argue for the point of arguing and you're not paying attention to the subject matter.

No. You seem to be arguing that whether the show is improvised or not is relevant. "The point of the show is that its improv. (Rolls eyes)." In simpler words, I completely disagree with you, I do not sit there thinking about how great the improv is while enjoying Curb Your Enthusiasm, I just watch it for the humor.

quote:

Originally posted by Leniu No. You seem to be arguing that whether the show is improvised or not is relevant. "The point of the show is that its improv. (Rolls eyes)." In simpler words, I completely disagree with you, I do not sit there thinking about how great the improv is while enjoying Curb Your Enthusiasm, I just watch it for the humor.

I was responding to the comment about one actor doing improv, as if improv was not de rigeur for the show. My comment was pointing out that the show's method and purpose is improv. I don't care about your perception or your interest when you watch the show, I was discussing facts about their creative process. You are taking this very personally for no reason. The show wasn't created to suit your perception of comedy.

I strongly suggest you don't attempt to interpret what it "seems" like anyone says. Basic reading comprehension would have resolved this before you responded.

An article from the Director's Guild.

http://www.dga.org/news/v28_2/feat_unscripted.php3

Is this any way to run a comedy series? If the name is Curb Your Enthusiasm? the answer is: absolutely.

This HBO hit has brought the concept of working without a script into the TV mainstream, transforming its executive producer and star Larry David from the man behind the genius of Seinfeld to the guy who is the butt of every self-inflicted joke on camera in Curb. Shot cinema verité-style, the show uses only an outline, with dialogue improvised and predictability sent packing.

If that sounds like a recipe for disaster from a director's perspective, well, it probably should be. That it isn't is a tribute to the improvisational abilities of Curb directors Bob Weide (who is also the series' co-executive producer), Larry Charles, Bryan Gordon, Seinfeld veteran Andy Ackerman, and David Steinberg, a longtime vet of the scripted television comedy world who has been forced to adapt to the situation comedy equivalent of guerrilla filmmaking.

"Compared to what I'm used to doing, working on Curb is free-flowing and spontaneous," Steinberg says.
"Most people think that you just go out and wing it. But that's never the case. The idea is to capture the feeling of spontaneity without necessarily actually being fully spontaneous, if that makes any sense. You want it simply to sound more real than a scripted show. But there is a formula and a rhythm, too."


Comedy Award Nominee David Steinberg (Curb Your Enthusiasm) at the 55th Annual DGA Awards. - photo: Elisa Haber - click image for larger view and details

Steinberg sees the style of Curb Your Enthusiasm as "a new form where the dialogue is secondary to the concept. You get the feel of a documentary and the beats of improv."

Rather than a script, the directors on Curb (which is in its fourth season) work from a seven- or eight-page outline that drives the plot forward. There is no set-up/set-up/punch line per se. But with its impromptu nature, the show can drive a director fairly batty unless he or she is prepared to go with the flow of a gig that is structured only in the loosest sense.
Bryan Gordon understands. He earned his DGA Award this year for a Curb episode entitled "Special Section" whose "A" story found Larry David (in the role of Larry David) failing to attend his mother's funeral because his father didn't want to call and trouble him. Martin Scorsese, Richard Lewis and Shelley Berman were among the guest stars.

Gordon — who has directed scripted episodes of both comedy (Sports Night, The Wonder Years, Andy Richter Controls the Universe) and drama (Boston Public, The West Wing) — refers to working on Curb Your Enthusiasm as "a high-wire act" during which "all preconceived notions of my job go out the window."


Director Bryan Gordon accepts the DGA Award for his direction of the Curb Your Enthusiasm episode Special Section - photo: Getty Images - click image for larger view and details

"As a director, when you do scripted shows, you have a sense of where everything is headed," Gordon says. "With Curb, you need to be able to go in an entirely different direction at the drop of a hat. Every scene, you're being tested in terms of getting the information across that you've got in the outline and maybe even trying to incorporate something new while still getting your shots in. It results in a really alive sense that the audience is drawn to.

"I'm not going to say that the traditional sitcom is dead. But the freshness of the Curb format makes you realize that maybe scripted comedy seems a little bit tired by comparison. I mean, I get people all the time who come up to me and ask, 'Is that Larry's real wife and agent?' or 'Is Larry really like that?' I think that's a tribute to the way Larry allows himself to be so unsympathetic."

Adds Larry Charles, a Seinfeld and Mad About You writer/producer as well as a Curb director: "After doing a show like Curb Your Enthusiasm, a scripted three-camera or four-camera sitcom is like a silent movie. It almost seems by comparison like a very moribund form. It feels very contrived and unnatural, almost like one of those stage shows from the turn of the 19th century where the villain came out and twirled his mustache. On Curb, we're able to achieve a level of verisimilitude, of reality, that's really invigorating for a director."

Verisimilitude — now there's a word you don't hear TV directors using every day. But it's one that is also used by chief Curb director Weide to describe a show that isn't directed so much as controlled — with the camera cast as something of an appendage following David and his "real" life. It makes perfect sense that Weide has never directed a conventional TV comedy. His background prior to Curb Your Enthusiasm was as a writer, producer and director of documentaries about the Marx Brothers, W.C. Fields (an Emmy winner), Lenny Bruce (which was nominated for an Oscar and won an Emmy) and Mort Sahl. He knew Larry David long before he became a name on Seinfeld, clear back to his days as a struggling stand-up and then as a cast regular in the early 1980s on the ABC later night comedy-variety series Fridays.

"Curb Your Enthusiasm" Director Larry Charles - click image for larger view and details

Curb Your Enthusiasm emerged out of what was originally a one-shot deal with HBO to make something of a faux documentary based on David's return to the stand-up world after leaving Seinfeld in the late 1990s. HBO was interested in doing a comedy special about that return to comedy clubs. It led to the October 1999 quasi-documentary Larry David: Curb Your Enthusiasm (directed by Weide) that was a blend of the actual with the ersatz. It applied the rules of documentary filmmaking to an odd hybrid or comedy and pseudo realism.

That would evolve into the series — TV's first fully improvised sitcom — beginning in 2000. The idea from the start, according to Weide, is to "plant little comedy bombs" that detonate throughout the half-hour. "The structure has always been different from any situation comedy that's ever been done," he says. "One thing sets off a chain reaction of events: Event A leads to Event B and collides with Event C, creating Event D."

Two handheld cameras are used. "With an unscripted show, that's a necessity," Weide believes. "Because you never know what may happen, you have to be able to catch the action as well as any important reaction as you may not get a second chance. So much of the comedy comes from Larry's reaction to the situation that I make certain no matter what else is happening, Larry is always covered. We shoot Digi-Beta, but the edited master is run through a process to make it look like film."

Weide admits that while directing Curb, he generally has to improvise right along with his actors (who, besides David, include Jeff Garlin and Cheryl Hines).

"It's really a lot like the CIA," Weide quips. "My standard joke is that actors are given information strictly on a need-to-know basis. They're given whatever back story they need and whatever information their character actually has. They're basically told how they fit into a particular scene. What they don't know is the overall story arc or any scene they don't happen to be in. So they can't really prepare the way actors normally would. When they're hearing news on camera out of another character's mouth, they're hearing it for the first time. So the reaction tends to be very spontaneous."


Director Bob Weide (center) preps actors Mina Kolb and Larry David for a scene on the set of Curb Your Enthusiasm. - photo: Ron Batzdorff/HBO - click image for larger view and details

Very rudimentary storyboarding is done, Weide notes, "but we always wind up throwing it out, anyway. The first couple of takes is a bit like staging a play. It's basically about getting the action on its feet. We tell the camera guys that for the first take or two in particular, it's important to have the camera on Larry to get his reaction. The other camera is the basic master of all the action and making sure all of the people are in the shot."

On a scripted show, Weide says, "The name of the game is continuity and consistency. You do the same thing the same way each time. So the camera operators know you'll deliver this line, set down this glass, walk to that window. You say this line and walk over there and that camera will follow you. But on Curb, the action can be wildly different each time. Body positions are all over the place. The primary direction we give our DP and camera crew is simply to follow that action, wherever it may lead them.

"Occasionally I'll give a continuity note. And we definitely give the actors notes. But generally I want my performers to feel comfortable enough to try different things. If you get enough coverage, you can cover for most stuff. We've shot some scenes where Larry decided to sit for the first four takes and then stand for the next two. But rarely is it that drastic. As a director, you're forced to become very adept at thinking on your feet."

Director Bob Weide, associate director Dale Stern and Larry David on the set of Curb Your Enthusiasm. - photo: Ron Batzdorff/HBO - click image for larger view and details

It all sounds pretty darn organized and reasonable. But Curb associate director Dale Stern — who worked in the scripted comedy world on Evening Shade — stresses that trying to direct the HBO show presents a unique set of challenges and obstacles.

"On a scripted show, you have, well, a script," Stern begins. "It's all right there in black and white: where the actors are standing, what the extras need, what your plan is for the day.

"By contrast, an unscripted show like Curb is simply professional guesswork. We know where we're going. We know who's going to be there. We just don't know how we'll be traveling. Let's say we're doing a scene in Larry's house. We have no real clue what that scene will be. The key to success in this game is flexibility. You'll be setting up for two hours in one area when you'll quickly be redirected to set up in another area. You'll start to shoot a scene and realize that the geography doesn't work and that it's better in another room. Sometimes, you just need to turn your entire crew on a dime. It helps a lot to have a good attitude."

Being a little bit insane doesn't hurt, either, Stern admits.

"Believe me when I say that if you can do this show, you can do anything," he says. "It's so completely different from experience on any traditional sitcom. It's not just one or two levels higher. It's so many levels of difficulty and challenge above those that I can't even calculate it."

As an example, Stern points to directing and shooting a simple conversation.

"On a traditional sitcom, you do one side at a time," Stern says. "Here, we have to shoot both sides. Depending on the geography of a room, that's a challenge in itself. You never know who's going to be talking. And if you're shooting a scene where somebody's talking about buying a horse and moving to Kansas, they may talk about the horse in one part and moving in another. The chronological order of the conversation varies with each take. That can just drive you nuts.

"That's not to mention that people can appear and reappear in scenes differently each take. We may use five or six seconds of each take even though we'll shoot the whole scene in its entirety. You don't worry about the beautiful visuals, just the content."

Director Bryan Gordon with his directing team: Associate Director Dale Stern, Stage Manager Jonathan Harris, Director Bryan Gordon and Associate Director Tim Gibbons at the 55th Annual DGA Awards. - photo: Elisa Haber - click image for larger view and details

The final scene from the final episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm's third season presented perhaps the ultimate logistical challenge from the directing POV. It involved 26 principal cast members uttering profane words and phrases, a chaotic scene of swearing as a spoof on a character's grappling with Tourette's syndrome.

"We'd been up all night," Stern recalls, "and we had to get coverage on the 26 cast members as well as hundreds of extras while capturing all sorts of reactions."

Remembers Weide, who directed the episode: "It was hard to figure out how to block and choreograph that scene. But I was actually chuckling while talking to my DP and actors about what to do. We have Larry standing there in triumph, having just come to the aid of this chef with Tourette's, as this chaos of swearing swirls around him. We had everybody shouting for about two minutes, using a series of push-ins and pullouts. As we were doing it, I actually thought, 'My God, there's a real possibility that we're creating a classic moment in TV comedy, like Lucy stuffing chocolates into her mouth.' "

Ackerman, whose directing résumé includes everything from Cheers to Wings to Frasier to Seinfeld, finds Curb to be an extension of the character-driven, minutiae-rich world that David created with Seinfeld.

"Curb Your Enthusiasm" Director Andy Ackerman - photo: Tom Keller - click image for larger view and details

"Larry is truly one of the funniest people on the planet," Ackerman says. "What he's done with Curb is put together a really talented group of people with a gift for improvisation. As a director, your mandate is just to sit back and enjoy the ride while making sure everybody is on camera at the right points. It's really a gas to be a part of that process. It's like nothing you'll ever again do as a director."

"I'll tell you what this show has taught me," Gordon chimes in. "It's taught me to be a darn good listener. You have to really listen, because things pop up that you tend to take for granted when you're doing a scripted show because you know the lines are there. With Curb, you're pretty much on your own. And for a director, what an exhilarating thing that is."

You can post a million facts, that does not change the fact I have an opinion that is different than yours.
The answer to my initial question is "Leon comes up with the jokes" not "point of the show is improv." You're seriously slow, even for a woman.

whoa buddy.

the whole fact that curb uses very VERY little scripting and is more like... this is the direction of the scene... say what u want, just get there...

that is like, a HUGE HUGE factor, point whatever u wanna call it, of that show.

I didnt really feel like reading through all teh bs but I think i get this gist of the debate.

the improv aspect of curb is what makes it so stupendously different and its central to the shows success. that is a fact. not an opinion.

with that being said.. name calling isnt nice. think positive. when we resort to name calling its because we lack anything intelligent to say.

It's just frustrating when people are so stuck up. Ive watched curb for years without realizing its not scripted and enjoyed just as much as I do now - learning this new bit of information.
Saying that the point of curb is improv and beating it to death is like saying "the point of that DJ is that he spins vinyl." I'm sorry but I don't give a crap if he spins vinyl, cds, laptops, or if he plays shit from his ipod - if it's good music, it's good music.
I obviously find it interesting the show is largely improvised - especially leon - but she doenst have to give me snubby attitude "thats the point" :rolls eyes: bs.

Fact of the matter is she is slow. If she thinks I cant comprehend her writing because I interpreted her initial statements as "You seem to be arguing that whether the show is improvised or not is relevant," which is exactly the point she was making.

quote:

Originally posted by Leniu It's just frustrating when people are so stuck up. Ive watched curb for years without realizing its not scripted and enjoyed just as much as I do now - learning this new bit of information. Saying that the point of curb is improv and beating it to death is like saying "the point of that DJ is that he spins vinyl." I'm sorry but I don't give a crap if he spins vinyl, cds, laptops, or if he plays shit from his ipod - if it's good music, it's good music. I obviously find it interesting the show is largely improvised - especially leon - but she doenst have to give me snubby attitude "thats the point" :rolls eyes: bs. Fact of the matter is she is slow. If she thinks I cant comprehend her writing because I interpreted her initial statements as "You seem to be arguing that whether the show is improvised or not is relevant," which is exactly the point she was making.

You fail to see the point. If Curb wasn't improv, you wouldn't like it as much.
I don't follow Curb much, but even I know this: the reason why it being improv is so relevant is because it has revolutionised the concept of the sitcom (which curb is) and its "controlled spontaneity" makes it all funnier, and you don't need to have talked to Larry David or be stuck up to understand this.

I finally caught up on the two most recent episodes last night (the one with Christian Slater, and the Wheelchair one), and am loving this season. Everything is getting ramped up, and the humor is just getting more and more innapropriate, in a good way of course.

My favorite scene this season so far...

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Originally posted by Leniu It's just frustrating when people are so stuck up. Ive watched curb for years without realizing its not scripted and enjoyed just as much as I do now - learning this new bit of information. Saying that the point of curb is improv and beating it to death is like saying "the point of that DJ is that he spins vinyl." I'm sorry but I don't give a crap if he spins vinyl, cds, laptops, or if he plays shit from his ipod - if it's good music, it's good music. I obviously find it interesting the show is largely improvised - especially leon - but she doenst have to give me snubby attitude "thats the point" :rolls eyes: bs. Fact of the matter is she is slow. If she thinks I cant comprehend her writing because I interpreted her initial statements as "You seem to be arguing that whether the show is improvised or not is relevant," which is exactly the point she was making.

Saying I'm stuck up and slow is as far from the truth as it gets. You shouldn't try and interpret anyone's comments because as you have proven already, you're incapable of doing that. Saying the basis of the show is improv not a negative thing and you have obviously taken offense to that. I also suggest you not call someone slow when many of your sentences are fragmented and barely coherent in your previous comments.

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Originally posted by Leniu I obviously find it interesting the show is largely improvised - especially leon - but she doenst have to give me snubby attitude "thats the point" :rolls eyes: bs.

I also find this comment very odd. I directed this comment to someone else, as shown in the quote. Are you backing someone you know or did you also fail to see this was not intended for you? Or are you so narcissistic that you assume everything is intended for you?

You are obviously wrong in this and others have also commented regarding that.

someone needs a cookie.

if yumpop wasn't a girl she'd be known as a troll, seems she starts beef with someone in every other thread.

if she is indeed not a girl..

I stand corrected.

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Originally posted by DJ_Lord someone needs a cookie.

how about a larry david sandwich instead

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Originally posted by ownymcown if yumpop wasn't a girl she'd be known as a troll, seems she starts beef with someone in every other thread. if she is indeed not a girl.. I stand corrected.

Yes, I'm a female. I don't start beef with anyone without merit. Actually, he started with me here. I am frank in my opinions and am not going to sugar coat what I think because people can't handle it. You're not going to get a smiley or an lolz out of me every time I post because it isn't my writing style. I don't go out of my way to be confrontational but if people want to misconstrue what I say, so be it. I have been told many times that my presence is welcome here because I bring my own opinion and not regurgitate what other people say.

quote:

Originally posted by AY STAR how about a larry david sandwich instead

When we were watching top chef last night, they mistakenly made sable and all I could think about was this episode.

Let me break it down for you further, maybe there's a language barrier here.

My initial statement was:

quote:

i wonder if larry writes his shit too or he comes up with it on his own

sot answered:

quote:

if you saw the special on the making of the show, most of it is improvised, especially leon's role

You made a rude comment, as if the fact I didn't know the show was improvised made me an idiot:

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That is the whole point of curb.

I saw over 6 seasons of the show without knowing it was improv and still enjoyed it just as much as the next guy.

Now please, show me where I "started" something with you, and which part of your statement I misinterpreted. I am curious as the cat.

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Originally posted by Leniu Let me break it down for you further, maybe there's a language barrier here. You made a rude comment, as if the fact I didn't know the show was improvised made me an idiot I saw over 6 seasons of the show without knowing it was improv and still enjoyed it just as much as the next guy. Now please, show me where I "started" something with you, and which part of your statement I misinterpreted. I am curious as the cat.

Now I get it, it made you feel like an idiot, well boo fucking hoo. You would expect someone as vested in the show as you are to know more about it. Ignorance is not always bliss and you have reaped that now, haven't you? I made a simple comment and an eyeroll, it happens on the interwebs all. the. time. You flipped and got offended by it. Should I dumb it down for you more or is it now enough for you to understand?

Things are pretty tense in here... "PRETTAY..... PRETTAY...... PRETTAY tense."



One of the best and unsung lines from last episode, after Larry asks if Kelsey shows a "proclivity for chopsticks":

"All I'm saying... Is if you put an American child who's never used chopsticks... And a Chinese child who's never used chopsticks... together in a room... Would the Chinese kid win?"

"Oh, the Americans, of course, being the controlled group."

"I'm just gunna say... The first time Kelsey is about to use chopsticks, when she's 15 or 16.......... Give me a call "

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Eco Things are pretty tense in here... "PRETTAY..... PRETTAY...... PRETTAY tense." One of the best and unsung lines from last episode, after Larry asks if Kelsey shows a "proclivity for chopsticks": "All I'm saying... Is if you put an American child who's never used chopsticks... And a Chinese child who's never used chopsticks... together in a room... Would the Chinese kid win?" "Oh, the Americans, of course, being the controlled group." "I'm just gunna say... The first time Kelsey is about to use chopsticks, when she's 15 or 16.......... Give me a call "

You can not say prettay, prettay, anything if you see my husband. He won't stop saying it.

I loved that scene, it was so funny.

You finally got it, congratulations.

You've proven my point though, you're slow as shit, even for a woman...

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Originally posted by Leniu You finally got it, congratulations. You've proven my point though, you're slow as shit, even for a woman...

Yes, I have gotten for a while that you are clueless and ignorant. At least I am able to discuss something without resorting to your petty level. I don't give a fuck if I made you look like an idiot, you did a good enough of a job making yourself look like one. You really should stop because you're embarrassing yourself and the pm messages I received about your lack of wit completely validate my opinion of you and your commentary.

Yea Larry David updates you about Curb, your friends are actresses in hollywood and now you get PMs about internet arguments showing their support.
Are you sure you're living in the same world as the rest of us?

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Originally posted by Leniu Yea Larry David updates you about Curb, your friends are actresses in hollywood and now you get PMs about internet arguments showing their support. Are you sure you're living in the same world as the rest of us?

You don't know me and you don't know who I chat with. Your assumptions are incredibly asinine. I met Larry David at an event last year at the 92nd St Y, a Jewish not for profit that has lectures for fund raising. There was a reception after and we spoke at length about Curb and my friend was there. I don't need to say who the friend is because I am not a name dropper. There were a few episodes based around her character. I met her when I was taking lessons from a Rabbi's wife. My friend, engaged at the time was living in NY and was taking classes with the same woman, we met and quickly became friends. It isn't far fetched to know people in the industry, five of my former school mates are well known actresses, I went to Spence. I went to grad school with a very well known person and am going to her wedding next month too. This is NY, people know people.

The pm messages I got were commenting about how stupid you sound. I would post them but I respect peoples privacy. If they say post them, then I will.

Well for your information I spoke to President Obama about you today and he said that I'm definitely much smarter and awesomer than you. I also got a 1600 on my sat and my IQ is in the 99th percentile. I also hold the world record for long jump, 400meter dash and I taught tiesto how to produce music. Did I mention I got the cleanest, meanest penis, stroke of genius?

Do you realize how retarded you sound trying to make yourself look superior to another human being? Do you do that in real life as well?

quote:

Originally posted by Leniu Well for your information I spoke to President Obama about you today and he said that I'm definitely much smarter and awesomer than you. I also got a 1600 on my sat and my IQ is in the 99th percentile. I also hold the world record for long jump, 400meter dash and I taught tiesto how to produce music. Did I mention I got the cleanest, meanest penis, stroke of genius? Do you realize how retarded you sound trying to make yourself look superior to another human being? Do you do that in real life as well?

Thank you for continuing to sound like an idiot, you keep proving me right. You seem like a very insecure person, incredibly insecure. I don't consider myself superior to anyone it is your insecurity talking.

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